cougar gt-e
New member
I'd send the gun to Cajon Gun Works and spend a little more to have them custom tune it, drop the Da pull, crisp up the SA and reduce trigger reach and pretravel while fixing the jambs.
CZ97 a bad deal getting worse
- Thread starter Brutus
- Start date
I have had Sigs for years. Good guns. Sold them all however, as CZ's just fit me better, are more accurate, and just as reliable if not more so. I have five CZ pistols including a new 97B and will be getting more, especially the custom guns.
You are correct. CZ continues to improve with Sig cheapens out for more marketing glitz. I'll take old world Czech craftsmanship.
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Walt Sherrill
New member
Constantine said:
Fit and finish is a constant bitch heard about CZs. I understand why some folks complain about the CZ polycoat finish, but not about FIT. CZ lock up as consistently and as tightly as any of the other guns they compete against. They're typically just as accurate, or more so. They seem to be as durable -- with good warranty coverage when they aren't.
CZ has never wasted time or money polishing areas where that extra effort doesn't improve function. That may be one of the reasons most of their guns sell for good bit less than $1000, nowadays -- a lot of the fullsize SIGs seem to START in that general price range.
Finish? Polycoat isn't as pretty as a Beretta's finish, but I'm NOT impressed with the standard SIG Nitron(tm) finish, either. If I scratch or chip a CZ's polycoat finish I can touch it up with matte black auto touchup paint; if I do it right, you'll never know it was touched up. You can't do anything like that with a scratched or worn Nitron finish. I suspect that's probably why some SIG owners claim to love the worn look of their SIGs when holster wear takes it's toll; they call it character" -- probably because there's not much else they can call it when bare metal starts to show (unless they use four letter words).
Most of the guns (SIG or CZ) we're talking about haven't been around in their current forms for 20-30 years, yet -- and generally a lot less long. Fifty years from now your comments may prove to have been prescient -- both in terms of reliability/durability or longevity, but in the meantime, your comments are arguably a bit premature...
Tactical Jackalope
New member
I thought you were part of the other thread I was involved in that had CZ in the topic.
My comments are based on classes and people I have seen trying to run CZs and XDs. Which I've always seen crap the bed continuously.
Also from working at one of the biggest gun ranges in Miami. CZ, XD, and Bersa have constantly had to be looked at for parts breaking and we had to call the line off so they can pick up their extractors or sights after falling off.
People are getting bent out of shape cause of my findings. You can call it what you want. It's what I've seen and had to deal with.
People having hard times with drills in classes or not being able to finish a class cause they brought a CZ or XD to it. Dozens upon dozens of times.
My SIGs, Glocks, and HKs have ran like sewing machines. My personal SIGs and Glocks have been torture tested in swampy environments. Mud, dirt, grassy dirt, and muck...
I seriously don't take being a range warrior as a be all end all for any gun manufacturer to get my approval. There's shooting it at the range with air conditioning and theirs going outside and training with the elements. There's running your guns clean and lubed out of the range bag and there's being told to drop your gun in the gravel / dirt and to load up and engage steel plates. There's a lot of mix up on this forum between people who train with their weapons and people who take them to the range.
I think I upset people with my experiences which many others who train with weapons a few times a year share as well.
If you shoot your weekend range gun and "never have an issue" that's good for you. I like a weapon that if worst case scenario ever turns up, I know it won't crap the bed. And so far any class where there's dirt, grime, and abuse involved, the CZs and XDs always fail.
M&P, Glock, SIG, and HK stay on top. Why is that so hard to accept if those are my findings from my own personal experience?
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I agree of just taking the hit. Ramp, bushing issues, poor design from the start. On the fly fixes usually aren't very promising. If tinkering is your thing this pistol will surely entertain.
I'm not sure I consider a new barrel an "on the fly" fix. Unless the seller is willing to do something, and a good store should, I also don't think it should be pushed off onto another unknowing owner.
Specifics please... Not generalization involving guns not part of this discussion. I am interested in what specific parts failed on the CZs.
I was at a 2 day class last year and saw a new P227's extractor pin jump out of the gun disabling it. The owner had to move to a back up.
All poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles. This is a known issue with the P227s if it was not a LNIB gun we, the other students in the class, would have swapped it out but since the owner had a backup gun we felt it was best to send it in for warranty work.
Is this an example of Sig perfection:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=565234
Tactical Jackalope
New member
I edited my post! Scroll up please. Didn't think you'd respond so fast. lol.. I pretty much answered what you asked.
LOL! Oh man. You're silly. Don't invest your ego into the gun so much. That's my thread! It's wearing fine. Almost 10k.
That's the one I mentioned that had the mud, dirt, and grime in it.
I put another 2k through it since then. It smoothed out. Good thing it wasn't a CZ, it probably would have locked up with a live round inside.
LOL! Oh man. You're silly. Don't invest your ego into the gun so much. That's my thread! It's wearing fine. Almost 10k.
That's the one I mentioned that had the mud, dirt, and grime in it.
I put another 2k through it since then. It smoothed out. Good thing it wasn't a CZ, it probably would have locked up with a live round inside.
Probably because at the same time you completely discount the experience of all others on this forum and insinuate that they're obviously not training with their pistols or don't know what they're talking about. That level of rudeness and arrogance generally gets treated this way.
I don't think anyone is upset I think people doubt the validity of your posts. In the years you have posted here I have seen you butcher 1911s only to question their reliability when in reality you could not leave them well enough alone.
You sing the praises of Sig yet at the same time question the pistol you claim to be perfection. You have bought and sold bought and sold Glock and HK while at some point claiming them to be the end all be all.
I am sorry to call you out but after a while one has to question your assessments.
If anyone does a search on your user name and reads enough posts they will see what I am talking about. I have no ego in this at all. Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin
Tactical Jackalope
New member
No one has said they've done similar testing. Just 100 rounds a year doesn't really cut it...
I haven't ran them hard in several months. But the years and years beforehand were great.
Tactical Jackalope
New member
Haha, I know... I remember those two. Just to correct you a little. I personally didn't butcher them myself. One I bought used and the other was butchered by someone who was once a friend of mine. And I couldn't leave them alone because they're 1911's. Doesn't everyone like to modify their 1911 at some point? With that said lesson learned and I haven't done so since those 2.
I love Glock and HK. Tried them out in several ways. As people stated on here, that's what they like. First hand experience. Sold them for different reasons each time. So what? The one I've had for almost 10 years has been my P226. God, I love that thing. Oh and I have another HK coming my way! Add another bought HK to that tally of yours!
You're not calling me out. It's public. As you've done and as can anyone else, it can be searched by clicking on my screename.
Tactical Jackalope
New member
LOL. Having a life outside the reporting to the forum is a bad thing? I'm not going to run up to the guy during a class and ask him what's wrong and take pictures of his issues and document them because that's the only way anyone online will believe me. I'm just a man typing away the same as you. Buy it or don't. That's your prerogative.
I've mentioned extractors at the range though. There have also been internals that have locked them up too. Sad thing.. Usually the smith on site dealt with them.
You're not calling me out. It's public. As you've done and as can anyone else, it can be searched by clicking on my screename.
And if they do that they will see the emperor wears no clothes.
You try to pass yourself off as an expert but your posts and your post history show that you are not.
Again specifics... What failures have you seen in your extensive experience. You cannot name them because you are ignorant of the specifics. You do not know what happened. You do not know if it was a maintenance issue, user error or a factory or design error.
By not answering the question directly you are losing what credibility you had.
Tactical Jackalope
New member
Childish is not accepting that someone doesn't play with the same toys as you kiddo lol. Geez... Let go.
I also covered that too though. The whole, elements of the earth VS a range day quite often.
Tactical Jackalope
New member
LOL no one is claiming to be an expert, weirdo. Just passing on what I've seen and experienced.
I like going commando.
And you know Xfire68 and triplebike didn't take courses with those pistols how? You know all those rounds were shot in an air conditioned environment how? You don't. You make assumptions that support your preconceived notions.
You deliberately went back to that thread on Christmas just to take another shot at CZs, only two posts after you already had. That's beyond sharing experience, that starts seeming personal.