SimulatedZero
Inactive
So, I moved to a new area and had an opportunity to spend some one on one time with a couple of CZ pistols, the CZ 75B and the CZ P07. I decided two things. The first being that I had to own the P07, there was no option. The second being that I can't place my trust in the brand yet and I'll explain why as I go.
A quick little background on me, I come from the striker fired family of firearms. I have acquired, through various means, a Glock 17, GI Colt 1911 ~circa early 50's, Beretta 92fs, SW Shield 9mm, and a few revolvers. I learned how to shoot on a Glock and picked up competitions and Glock matches from there. I have thousands of rounds through my Glock (shot 500 to 1000 a month for the entire period I ran comps) and have at least 3k on my Shield. Everything else, I just plinked with every once and a while.
Recently, I brought the Beretta out of mothballs and ran it for a while, expecting to hate it, hate the size, hate the trigger. Loved it from mag 1. Got a little hooked on being at the range after a couple years out of the game and slugged in the neighborhood of a thousand rounds through the 92fs (this was definitely not the wife approved amount I agreed on) Still hate the DA/SA transition shot. Here comes trying to find a hammer fired pistol with a manual safety for condition one carry with a consistent trigger.
Found and settled on CZ as a brand. Hadn't really been interested in the past (was never a fan of Soviet Bloc weapons) and didn't know much about them. I was happy with the price point and apparent reliability. The brand had the usual following that most brands do, which is to say if I were to say the wrong thing I might find myself observing the operational end of any particular model as proof of point. Sad to say, I didn't see the reliability on the range.
Range Day
7 1/2 yds
(Please excuse my marksmanship, it's not my finest...)
Initial Impressions:
I think I just got sucked into hammer fired pistols in a big way. I've always enjoyed firing the SA on the Colt, but this was a beautiful thing. The groups aren't that impressive, I'll put that on being out of practice, but it was so easy. Considering I haven't logged much range time in two years outside of the occasional holiday, I'll take it.
This was fired at a cadence of about a round per second or so, pretty focused on grouping. What's very interesting to me was the relative grouping for each weapon. I printed about center with the Beretta, though I let the group open up. The interesting part is I shot center target with each weapon and printed left of center with the 75B and high left with the P07.
Both weapons were similar in trigger, slide design (overlapping frame rail), and were fired SA only. The big differences being barrel length and grip width. I dropped a few rounds each and I wasn't hitting point of aim. This stayed consistent with each pistol as I ran them through their paces. I always hit left of center or high left with the 75B and P07, respectively. One of the gentleman at the range, the local gun club organizer, offered that different grip sizes could change the point of impact if all else is equal. Made sense to me as it would effect where my trigger finger fell if I was just putting it on there and not paying attention.
My next measure for them, after cycling a few rounds for a bit to get a feel, was to run a short target acquisition game. Nothing fancy or tactical, just putting 10 rounds on target, bringing up from low and ready and firing at speed. Reloading 4 rounds and alternating corner targets at the top and then the bottom, starting from low ready for the first shot.
CZ P07 9mm - 7 1/2 yds
CZ 75B 9mm - 7 1/2 yds
Here I really start to get a feel for the two different firearms. I will admit, I let the groups open up a bit between speed and the time I had on range already (plus it was raining outside, I think I had cold coming on, stress at work, and definitely shouldn't have had that popcorn. If I think of anything else I'll be sure to mention it) However, there was a clear difference for me on which one ran better in my hands.
I was biased towards the 75B. I really wanted to like the gun. The metal on metal was smooth as butter, the slim profile for IWB carry, manual safety. The works. The reality was I couldn't shoot it for $%*#. I just had a harder time finding my target past the sights and keeping there at speed. The gun did present well in my hands from low ready, but the grip was a bit small for my tastes. The irony here being that the popularity of the grip was a bit of a selling point for me.
The P07 on the other hand was a dream. Just a beautiful weapon to hold. It molded to my hand and rode nice low in my grip. The trigger was beautiful. I'm an odd one when it comes to shooting in a lot of ways. The first being I don't really adhere to any shooting system or style (simplicity, consistency, trainability are my only hard rules) and I actually like a triggers a little less crisp. It makes it easier for me to achieve a surprise break and not drop a round due to anticipation. It's one of the reasons I had a hard time missing with my Glock. Ironically enough my shooting with the P07 wasn't anything write home about and I dropped a couple rounds while switching corner targets. But I really enjoyed it and it was incredibly easy and natural for me.
I have no doubt that with more practice I will dial it in, a couple hundreds each is the equivalent of saying hi and shaking hands as far as I'm concerned. The real issue for me is the failures I had with the 75B. I had 5 FTE. Four of them were in a row, one per magazine on my target game above. The extractor wasn't that worn or dirty and the ammo was a mix of the local stuff they carried at the range and Winchester white box (not my usual, but the price was right). Both brands delivered FTE's.
Just to give the highlights.
I did a little digging online afterwards and saw a tendency for failure to go into battery for CZ's. Not often, but often enough to give me hesitation. Between that and the issues I had at the range, I got that little bug in my ear whispering sweet nothings about moving on past CZ and looking elsewhere. Throw in the fact that I wasn't hitting point of aim (an annoyance for me to be sure. Doubly considering I couldn't tell if I just sucked or if I didn't like the gun) and it would usually be a done deal for me. The only thing keeping me hooked on having P07 on my side is how much I enjoyed the ergonomics and handling of the weapon.
Are these issues others have experienced with CZ as a whole, or did I get a bit of lemon with the 75B? I know they switched slide coating to Nitride on the P07 to help durability, but I didn't see if it had the same issues with it wearing to a rough surface and failing to go into battery on occasion.
I'm not looking for a list on complaints about everybody's bad experience (this is the internet, that's our specialty here. I could find personal stories of issues with a Rolls Royce Phantom from someone who can't afford to fix the fact that their missing half there teeth out here) as much as I'm looking for everybody's feel and thoughts for the brand as a rock solid daily carry gun. My shield has been on my side for 3 years and survived pure hell, including being soaked in beer and sand in the bottom of my bag from 1 (or 5) of my beach trips. Never blinked.
*Disclaimer* I do not pretend to be a professional shooter by any means, I just know my way around guns well enough to have not shot myself in the leg. Yet.
A quick little background on me, I come from the striker fired family of firearms. I have acquired, through various means, a Glock 17, GI Colt 1911 ~circa early 50's, Beretta 92fs, SW Shield 9mm, and a few revolvers. I learned how to shoot on a Glock and picked up competitions and Glock matches from there. I have thousands of rounds through my Glock (shot 500 to 1000 a month for the entire period I ran comps) and have at least 3k on my Shield. Everything else, I just plinked with every once and a while.
Recently, I brought the Beretta out of mothballs and ran it for a while, expecting to hate it, hate the size, hate the trigger. Loved it from mag 1. Got a little hooked on being at the range after a couple years out of the game and slugged in the neighborhood of a thousand rounds through the 92fs (this was definitely not the wife approved amount I agreed on) Still hate the DA/SA transition shot. Here comes trying to find a hammer fired pistol with a manual safety for condition one carry with a consistent trigger.
Found and settled on CZ as a brand. Hadn't really been interested in the past (was never a fan of Soviet Bloc weapons) and didn't know much about them. I was happy with the price point and apparent reliability. The brand had the usual following that most brands do, which is to say if I were to say the wrong thing I might find myself observing the operational end of any particular model as proof of point. Sad to say, I didn't see the reliability on the range.
Range Day
7 1/2 yds
(Please excuse my marksmanship, it's not my finest...)
Initial Impressions:
I think I just got sucked into hammer fired pistols in a big way. I've always enjoyed firing the SA on the Colt, but this was a beautiful thing. The groups aren't that impressive, I'll put that on being out of practice, but it was so easy. Considering I haven't logged much range time in two years outside of the occasional holiday, I'll take it.
This was fired at a cadence of about a round per second or so, pretty focused on grouping. What's very interesting to me was the relative grouping for each weapon. I printed about center with the Beretta, though I let the group open up. The interesting part is I shot center target with each weapon and printed left of center with the 75B and high left with the P07.
Both weapons were similar in trigger, slide design (overlapping frame rail), and were fired SA only. The big differences being barrel length and grip width. I dropped a few rounds each and I wasn't hitting point of aim. This stayed consistent with each pistol as I ran them through their paces. I always hit left of center or high left with the 75B and P07, respectively. One of the gentleman at the range, the local gun club organizer, offered that different grip sizes could change the point of impact if all else is equal. Made sense to me as it would effect where my trigger finger fell if I was just putting it on there and not paying attention.
My next measure for them, after cycling a few rounds for a bit to get a feel, was to run a short target acquisition game. Nothing fancy or tactical, just putting 10 rounds on target, bringing up from low and ready and firing at speed. Reloading 4 rounds and alternating corner targets at the top and then the bottom, starting from low ready for the first shot.
CZ P07 9mm - 7 1/2 yds
CZ 75B 9mm - 7 1/2 yds
Here I really start to get a feel for the two different firearms. I will admit, I let the groups open up a bit between speed and the time I had on range already (plus it was raining outside, I think I had cold coming on, stress at work, and definitely shouldn't have had that popcorn. If I think of anything else I'll be sure to mention it) However, there was a clear difference for me on which one ran better in my hands.
I was biased towards the 75B. I really wanted to like the gun. The metal on metal was smooth as butter, the slim profile for IWB carry, manual safety. The works. The reality was I couldn't shoot it for $%*#. I just had a harder time finding my target past the sights and keeping there at speed. The gun did present well in my hands from low ready, but the grip was a bit small for my tastes. The irony here being that the popularity of the grip was a bit of a selling point for me.
The P07 on the other hand was a dream. Just a beautiful weapon to hold. It molded to my hand and rode nice low in my grip. The trigger was beautiful. I'm an odd one when it comes to shooting in a lot of ways. The first being I don't really adhere to any shooting system or style (simplicity, consistency, trainability are my only hard rules) and I actually like a triggers a little less crisp. It makes it easier for me to achieve a surprise break and not drop a round due to anticipation. It's one of the reasons I had a hard time missing with my Glock. Ironically enough my shooting with the P07 wasn't anything write home about and I dropped a couple rounds while switching corner targets. But I really enjoyed it and it was incredibly easy and natural for me.
I have no doubt that with more practice I will dial it in, a couple hundreds each is the equivalent of saying hi and shaking hands as far as I'm concerned. The real issue for me is the failures I had with the 75B. I had 5 FTE. Four of them were in a row, one per magazine on my target game above. The extractor wasn't that worn or dirty and the ammo was a mix of the local stuff they carried at the range and Winchester white box (not my usual, but the price was right). Both brands delivered FTE's.
Just to give the highlights.
I did a little digging online afterwards and saw a tendency for failure to go into battery for CZ's. Not often, but often enough to give me hesitation. Between that and the issues I had at the range, I got that little bug in my ear whispering sweet nothings about moving on past CZ and looking elsewhere. Throw in the fact that I wasn't hitting point of aim (an annoyance for me to be sure. Doubly considering I couldn't tell if I just sucked or if I didn't like the gun) and it would usually be a done deal for me. The only thing keeping me hooked on having P07 on my side is how much I enjoyed the ergonomics and handling of the weapon.
Are these issues others have experienced with CZ as a whole, or did I get a bit of lemon with the 75B? I know they switched slide coating to Nitride on the P07 to help durability, but I didn't see if it had the same issues with it wearing to a rough surface and failing to go into battery on occasion.
I'm not looking for a list on complaints about everybody's bad experience (this is the internet, that's our specialty here. I could find personal stories of issues with a Rolls Royce Phantom from someone who can't afford to fix the fact that their missing half there teeth out here) as much as I'm looking for everybody's feel and thoughts for the brand as a rock solid daily carry gun. My shield has been on my side for 3 years and survived pure hell, including being soaked in beer and sand in the bottom of my bag from 1 (or 5) of my beach trips. Never blinked.
*Disclaimer* I do not pretend to be a professional shooter by any means, I just know my way around guns well enough to have not shot myself in the leg. Yet.
