Curious Why some people think the way they do

[dakota1911]

I wonder the same thing. Like why did anyone vote for our current president. People think differently, and it is probably good. I think it has something to do with our survival as a species.

 

[dgludwig]

The world is full of people with ethnocentric mindsets (the various gun forums not excepted) who apparently feel compelled to judge others who don't conform to certain preconceived "norms". When "they" don't dress the same way "we" do; when they don't share our ethnicity or attend the same church/synagogue we do; when they come from another place (even if they might be fellow Americans who are particularly passionate about the Second Amendment); when they don't belong to the same political party we do, and when they arm themselves for self-defense in a manner we find inappropriate to our narrow-minded set of standards, we sneer our lips in derision and stand on street corners, pointing and giggling at them.

As Americans, we ought to be able to express our individualities and address needs that may be unique to the particular situation we find ourselves in without suffering rebuke from self-appointed critics. We should be engaged in the continuing fight to retain and maintain our God-given rights together; not separated by a wall of nit-picking prejudice.

As for the poster who is "learning" about guns but who has vowed to never join the NRA, I would argue that, though this revered institution is not perfect (who is?), you would not be able to own a firearm today if it wasn't for the NRA's role in America's political arena yesterday, today and tomorrow. And, to tell you the truth, some of us are getting pretty darned tired of carrying the water for the rest of you.

 

[AZAK]

CC

As Americans, we ought to be able to express our individualities and address needs that may be unique to the particular situation we find ourselves in without suffering rebuke from self-appointed critics. We should be engaged in the continuing fight to retain and maintain our God-given rights together; not separated by a wall of nit-picking prejudice.

Very well said by dgludwig.

You say to me,

As for your interpretation of what I wrote, you are pretty far off base.

Then add,

I used "examples" of words. But we all know, "Or SHOULD know", what contextual clues are, and what a person means not just by WHAT they say, but HOW they say it. In other words, you are perceiving something that I didn't say.

I can just as easily dismiss your argument using the same logic. This does not in any way help to resolve the issue.

I read the title to this thread Curious Why some people think the way they do and have not seen that you are truly looking for an understanding of your own question, rather I see that you are setting forth to promote your own argument and agenda.

I will close with Pax's contribution to another thread just yesterday:

Everyone who drives slower than I do is an idiot.

Everyone who drives faster than I do is a maniac.

Everyone who drives differently than I do is a moron.

There, summed up the thread.

pax

 

[Stevie-Ray]

As for the poster who is "learning" about guns but who has vowed to never join the NRA, I would argue that, though this revered institution is not perfect (who is?), you would not be able to own a firearm today if it wasn't for the NRA's role in America's political arena yesterday, today and tomorrow. And, to tell you the truth, some of us are getting pretty darned tired of carrying the water for the rest of you.

Also very well said, and bears repeating, IMO.

 

[sourdough44]

I can't read everything but always remember, the human mind is a very fertile place. Folks think & act different, just the way it is.

 

[N.H. Yankee]

I've been carrying since legal age ( 21 ) and if I didn't I more than likely wouldn't be sitting here typing. I see carrying as a PITA sometimes but its like wearing a seat belt. Wearing it can be uncomfortable but when you need it your happy you used it. We didn't always have seat belts either and many lives were lost, same goes for carrying a weapon.

 

[sandbag]

improvised

When I got out of the service in early 1971,I moved back to NYC.I had a crappy job in a hospital in a really bad section of Brooklyn(where I grew up)and I had to take buses and subways each way for 1.5/2 hrs for $150/week.I also lived in a real bad section of the Bronx with my wife.I had a long walk home at about 2AM.I got paid in cash.
I carried a length of lead pipe and a jack knife.I wasn't giving my wages up to anybody.
About 9 months later I got an LE job and replaced the improvised stuff wth a Chief's Special.

 

[a4hawk]

Why arm yourself in today's world?

Well now I just spent some time reading the gentlemen's posting and I also began to think why arm yourself. While he does make several outstanding arguements it seems to me he has never been put in harm's way or had to defend himself or a someone else for that matter. If Im wrong in this impression then I stand corrected and look upon his opinions for a different angel one which I will not delve into not knowing this gentleman.

Now to my background and as to why I carry a firearm. I was a Policeman for 24 years both in New York City and a major city here in the southwest part of our country. I also experenced two combat tours as a Marine in Viet Nam and wittnessed and experenced man at his very worst in both being a police officer and a Marine. I came to the opinion that I would never allow some of the things I saw and was required to repair and or respond too happen to me, my family, or for that matter innocent by-stander. This is the reason I carry a firearm. I'm not crazy, I do not suffer from any vast complexes, I do not feel I lack some thing as a man, I just do not want to have something happen and I wittness it and can not do anything to put a stop to what is going on. Many times the comment has been made to me that I truly liked guns, my come back has been "well yes I do, I like the design, the thought that went into the design and production and last but not least the history behind all of it. Also by the way Im not all that impressed with people that display a obsession for firearms. Yes a firearm is a tool but for a job ever more important than sawing a two by four or setting a nail.

In ending my remarks I have always been of a mind set that as a civilian, not a combat Marine, you do not want to take a life what you are attempting to do is to get this person to stop doing what thay are doing at the time. Sometimes they die, but who put them in that position? Me, you, the innocent citizen just trying to get by in life. I think not. Carry your firearm if you chose but always be aware of the awsome responsibility that goes along with it.

There, I have had my say. Thank you for allowing me to do so.

 

[christcorp]

Sorry A4, Sand bag, and yankee; as well as others; but you have definitely strayed way off target. And that's ok, because no thread can stay on target for very long. I tried to bring it back once, and it was going good. Definitely no longer worth my time. FWIW. NO ONE asked why you carry a gun. NO ONE asked why you have guns. NO ONE questioned anything about your rights or anything similar. But that's ok. Take this thread wherever you want to. I tried to tell the mods to close it, but they let it run. That's cool. Oh, And hawk; you definitely stand corrected.

 

[AZAK]

christcorp

If you really are "Curious" I will attempt to answer one of your questions from the OP:

They have to have a 15+ round glock. Why? (That's a rhetorical question, there really is no answer).

I realize that you state that, "there really is no answer", yet I will attempt to give you one that makes perfect sense to me.

I carried several different makes and models of .44 mag for years as a "woods/bush" gun. Where I live we have the pretty much the biggest big bears and moose. After a few decades I started to get tired of having to lug around all of that weight on one side of my hip, but more than the weight I got really tired of six inch barrels in a holster when sitting down; and I did carry 4 inch also for quite some time.

Fast forward to purchasing a Glock 29 in 10mm auto. Lighter, shorter, don't really care if it gets beat up a bit when out and about and for a hand gun pretty decent "omph".

Now I have found that when using a shoulder holster with this G29, that carrying two fully loaded G20 15 round mags on the opposing side offsets the weight of the G29 just beautifully; noticeably better than the standard 10 round mags.

Now that means that I am packing 46 rounds of ammo. Does this make this set up "Extreme"? I find that it makes it more comfortable.

By packing more rounds, I increase my physical comfort level; what possibly could be wrong with this?

So, how do you define "extreme"? When does one "cross the line"?

I also regularly carry Colt 1911s in .45 auto and 10mm auto; one at a time with one extra mag on my belt on the opposing hip. These for not usually out in the bush carry.

I also rely on bear spray, I have done my homework and read the numbers, as my primary defense against bears and moose; closest non-hunting encounter with an Alaskan Grizzly at about four feet. Spray in one hand, gun in the other. (Have also been known to carry large caliber magnum hunting rifle or shotgun with slugs.)

Now up here in Alaska, there are quite a few folks who do carry a Glock 20 with 15 round magazines fully loaded. If I ever do have to shoot a bear or moose with a hand gun in self defense, which I truly pray that I will not have to, you can bet that I am going to want to have those 15 rounds in my Glock; I may or may not be needing/even able to use all fifteen, but I personally would not want any less.

I also have been known to carry two cans of bear spray. Extreme?

Ask anyone who has emptied their only can at a bear, miles from any where remotely resembling civilization, and had to hike out with an empty can in bear country. As they say, "Been there, done that". Definitely not warm and fuzzy feeling time.

We all have differing experiences, and perceptions about what is a good balance. While you may not see the "need" for a 15 round Glock, I personally know others who do, myself included.

 

[dgludwig]

We all have differing experiences, and perceptions about what is a good balance. While you may not see the "need" for a 15 round Glock, I personally know others who do, myself included.

And that statement should answer the op's hard to decipher (at least for me) question(s).

And on another forum, poster benEzra made this point: "...A lot of people are just too quick to snicker at anybody who doesn't do things Exactly Like Them, without considering that the other person might actually have a rational reason for choosing differently. You see it in the bashing of modern-looking guns as 'tacticool' and their owners as 'wannabes', you see it from the 'your gun is less expensive than mine' and 'your gun is more expensive than mine' crowds, and so on. It doesn't really help shooters as a community..."

 

[darkgael]

+1

DLudw:

the op's hard to decipher (at least for me) question(s).

Not just you. Me, too.

I've already explained what I was looking for.............Sorry if you don't understand. But I'm not going through it again. Sorry.

The explanation.....the "again" was as unclear as the OP.
As for people who "got it", maybe one of them would be kind and accommodating enough to put the idea into clearer terms for lesser mortals since the OP won't or can't.
I'd like to participate, to get a positive sense from what I am thinking. I find that it rankles to be dismissed with a you-don't-understand-me by someone who won't or can't explain himself when petitioned to do so by quite a few posters. (And offering an explanation that is no more clear than the original is not explaining.)
Pete

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Now I have found that when using a shoulder holster with this G29, that carrying two fully loaded G20 15 round mags on the opposing side offsets the weight of the G29 just beautifully; noticeably better than the standard 10 round mags.

Now that means that I am packing 46 rounds of ammo. Does this make this set up "Extreme"? I find that it makes it more comfortable.

46 rounds, holy crap, yeah you're Rambo pretending you're John Matrix.

Truthfully, I'm surprised you carry that light. I think if I lived where you do, I'd probably want my FAL with me most times.

 

[44 AMP]

There is no fanatic like the newly converted

Which, I think, probably comes closest to answering ther OP's intended question of why some poeple seem to go "overboard" with their response to defensive gun ownership.

I would venture to say that many of them come to guns later in life, as opposed to having grown up with them. Those who grow up with guns (used in a positive manner), as a part of their lives, may become enthusiasts, or may not, but they seldom become fanatics.

It is those who come to it later in life that tend to go overboard, in either direction. Many of the strongest antigun advocates, those with an actual deep belief as opposed to those who are doing it merely for percieved political or social gain, do so because of some personal incident in their lives where a gun played a part, usually a tragic incident. Their fallacy lies not in their commitment to the cause, but in their reasoning of choosing to blame the gun, rather than the shooter. If they put even a fraction of that same energy into focusing on the real reason for their sorrow (a person who chose evil), they might actually do something beneficial for society, rather than the opposite.

The other reason people "act the way they do" is the belief that if a little is good, a lot must be better! A fine sounding idea, that just dosen't work out that way in real life very often.

But the simplest answer to the OP's question, and the truest, although the least satisfying is simply "because they can".

 

[Blue Steel]

people who have a gun for self/personal defense, didn't always have one. How did they defend themselves walking down the street, at home, etc... prior to owning a gun?

Situational awareness. Willingness to confront/avoid suspicious persons and not be funneled into an attack. Alternative weapons, such as knives, batons, chemical agents, keys between your fingers, physical skill & ability, etc. Many people who are confronted with a violent attack and who are unprepared don't defend themselves.

Why, now that some people own a gun, they throw out these other ways (usually your brain) in defending themselves. They now feel that the "GUN" can protect and save their lives. Instead of realizing that the gun is simply a "TOOL". That it is THEY who will protect themselves or allow themselves to get hurt or killed.

Your questions is flawed, and in my experience many armed citizens are much better about personal awareness than the general public (sheeple). There are those that assign some mystical power to the firearm, but there are also those who walk around with their head in the clouds singing "Nothing bad is ever going to happen to me."

Also, why do people who all of a sudden buy a gun for self defense, believe that the threat has all of a sudden changed and increased dramatically; compared to when they didn't have a gun. You hear the conversations going on about needing a 15+ round magazine to protect themselves. They speak of having a .223 for home protection. Again, they didn't have these issues before having a gun. Now that they have a gun, a 6 shot revolver all of a sudden isn't good enough. They have to have a 15+ round glock. Why? (That's a rhetorical question, there really is no answer).

The answer is that once again you're assuming and generalizing. Most people look to law enforcement and military when considering a self defense handgun. The Glock pistol is the #1 law enforcement pistol in the United States, and is very affordable (more so than many 6-shot revolvers). Many people who purchase a gun find that they enjoy shooting, and they therefore expand their knowledge base as well as their firearms collection.

So is it that people who don't own a gun "YET", are naive??? Is it that they don't see the world as threatening? Are only people who own gun, enlightened? OR, is it that people, once they become avid gun owners, think they are Rambo or start exaggerating the threat of their world. They start believing that Die-Hard, Lethal Weapon, Red-Dawn are "Real" possibilities instead of Hollywood? I say AVID gun users, because there are a group of gun owners who have a gun, bought it for whatever reason, and almost never use it. The gun is in their dresser or closet. There's also the other small percentage who bought a gun after a crime against them was committed. But for the average gun owner who visits forums and such, it appears more that they think the potential threat is greater than it was before they owned a gun.

Some are naive...and since you're here simply flaming gun owners, I have a question for you? Is it better to buy a gun out of fear, stick it in your closet, and never develop a level of understanding or proficiency about the firearm?

Personally, I don't believe the threat has changed. I also understand that the gun is just a tool. No gun has ever saved a person. Just like no gun has ever killed a person. It's the person with the gun that decides what happens next.

The ability to defend oneself has saved people. The best mindset in the world isn't as good as the best mindset & a quality defensive piece when confronted with a life-or-death situation.

But I really believe that there are a lot of gun owners who throw out normal common sense and rely on the gun to save their life instead of themselves. And as such, they will continue to try and make the role that the gun plays to be more important. Higher cap magazines, faster reloading, different ammo, manufacturer preferences, etc... The truth is, if they realized that it is they, and not the gun, that determines if there is a threat again them, they'd realize that a 6 shot revolver, 7 shot semi-auto, $300 vs $1200 gun, etc... are all more than enough. Instead, some people are just so pessimistic and believe that if they haven't found a way to conceal a weapon that can hold 50 rounds, and shoot as fast as legal, that there is still work to be done.

Handgun bullets are not death rays, and the more of them you have to put on target the better when faced with a deadly threat. Yes, a six-gun is an adequate defensive piece (my dresser gun is a Smith Model 13). But what is wrong if someone wants to be a gear-head. Some people spends thousands of dollars on golf clubs, lesson, green fees, etc...couldn't they just play with a driver, a putter, and a 7-iron?. Car enthusiasts spends a small fortune on wheels, tires, suspensions, engine modifications, etc. No matter the hobby, some people enjoy gear. Why is there something wrong with that? Should everyone have to buy the same Craftsman wrench, just because its good enough, or can I talk to the Snap-On dealer?

Obviously, we're not talking about those who shoot for sport, hunting, plinking, fun, etc.... I'm speaking of those who have a hard-on about personal/self/home defense.

Many who shoot for sports, hunting, plinking, fun, etc are the same people who dedicate time to self-defense.

 

[dgludwig]

Blue Steel, I think you captured the essence of the question(s) and offered well-thought out responses to them. I agree with everything you said (and, for me, that doesn't happen often ).

 

[Blue Steel]

Double post-deleted

 

[bikerbill]

My early self-defense plans were an aluminum bat and a K-Bar in my nightstand. Then the guy in the house behind mine got himself murdered. It was a family thing, but spurred me to get a Mossberg 500 and find a police trainer to teach my wife and I to use it. I moved on to handguns soon after, tho living in CA, I couldn't actually carry one for protection. Moving to Texas opened my eyes and I've been carrying concealed for almost 6 years. I wasn't raised around guns, tho I did belong to my HS skeet team (now THERE'S something I bet you can't find anymore) and was exposed to the M-16 in the AF in the '60s.

 

[BlueTrain]

You say your neighbor was murdered by a family member and now you're teaching your wife how to shoot?

 

[The Tourist]

Isn't this debate really about the application of personal freedoms and not firearms? If doing the "best" in each facet of life was demanded, we'd all be driving a Prius.

To our living samurai, I guess I have deliberately disarmed myself. I am not denigrating fallen patriots, I simply chose as a free man to not wear a breast plate and claymore sword to go out for a quart of milk.

We also fixate far too much on calibers. Yikes, I'd shiver down to my socks if I heard that Massad Ayoob was angry with me and armed with a Ruger .22 Standard. Factually, my life would be measured in hours despite the size of the gun.

A differing opinion is style, dress, weaponry and demeanor is hardly a demonstration of commitment or belief.

I am a strident strict constructionist, a volunteer at our vets' hospital, a Christian and a student of history. I also believe is moderation, a small caliber Czechoslovakian pistol, and backing away from any fight like it was a red hot stove.

In any debate here at TFL I a participant in the actual application of those ideals in less than 25%. I do not find this condition "curious" at all.