Curious Why some people think the way they do

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I said I wasn't going to post any more on this thread, not for content anyway. But when it gets way off target, and when my original question an intent gets distorted, I like to get it back on track. Remember: No one asked, or is asking, why you own a gun, carry a gun, or ANYTHING REMOTELY SIMILAR. if you are confused, then read some of my original posts in this thread; then look at this thread below from a different forum, and see if you can put 2+2 together. If you can read through all the posts in that thread, I think it will come together. It's an attitude.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=505391
 
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2+2=?

christcorp

Many, many people have posted in this thread. Many have questioned you, or been questioned by you.

If you would like to explain just what you do mean, please do so.

I am unsure of exactly how this other forum thread relates; in your opinion. (Yes, I have read it in its entirety.)

What is your CCW loadout?
Just curious mainly from the thread in here where the guy would need a tacticool wheel barrel to carry his daily loadout. What is yall's daily loadout? Does it change from daytime to night? Does it change with the weather? Are you guys crazy and carry an arsenal of guns and knives on your person?
Emphasis by AZAK (Would this be leading the witness, counselor?)

Again please be so kind as to simply explain exactly what it is that you are driving at, as opposed to expressing frustration at a lack of "understanding" of what it is not.
 
one mo time

OK. Lemme try this one more time:
The OP and answers/comments -
Most people who have a gun for self/personal defense, didn't always have one. How did they defend themselves walking down the street, at home, etc... prior to owning a gun?

Answers: 1)They didn't defend themselves - example: some years ago, my neighbor was accosted and hijacked by two hoods while getting out of his car.
2) By being street-wise, looking at what is ahead and who. By avoiding high crime areas. By adding extra locks to doors and windows. By parking their cars in well-lighted places.


Why, now that some people own a gun, (do) they throw out these other ways (usually your (their) brain) in defending themselves.(?) (Do)They now feel that the "GUN" can protect and save their lives.(,) Instead of realizing that the gun is simply a "TOOL".(and) That it is THEY who will protect themselves or allow themselves to get hurt or killed.(?)

Answers: There are two questions. 1) You are generalizing with the first question. Some people may throw caution to the winds but I suspect that most folk don't. Doubtless there are some folk who are seduced by the power of a firearm and the resulting feeling of empowerment that comes with having a gun on one's person. This mindset, if I may call it that, has been fed by Hollywood (remember Charles Bronson?) and even popular history (remember Bernie Goetz?) to give just two examples. Again, though, I suspect that many do not fall into that incautious way of thinking.
The second question is very much related to the idea that "guns don't kill people; people kill people."


Also, why do people who all of a sudden buy a gun for self defense, believe that the threat has all of a sudden changed and increased dramatically; compared to when they didn't have a gun.(?)

Answer: Do they? There is an underlying assumption in that question that is way too general.
You do attempt to qualify it by saying...

You hear the conversations going on about needing a 15+ round magazine to protect themselves. They speak of having a .223 for home protection. Again, they didn't have these issues before having a gun.

Comment: Yes, they did. They just didn't have the gun.

Now that they have a gun, a 6 shot revolver all of a sudden isn't good enough. They have to have a 15+ round glock. Why? (That's a rhetorical question, there really is no answer).

So is it that people who don't own a gun "YET", are naive???

Answer: Some people can't own a gun. In any case, I am not prepared to generalize about other peoples naivete or lack of it.


Is it that they don't see the world as threatening? Are only people who own gun, enlightened?

Answers: These questions appear to be rhetorical. You make the assumption that gun ownership is enlightenment. I own a lot of firearms and - can only speak for myself (imagine that) - never considered that the responsibility of said ownership meant that I was more enlightened than someone else.


OR, is it that people, once they become avid gun owners, think they are Rambo or start exaggerating the threat of their world. They start believing that Die-Hard, Lethal Weapon, Red-Dawn are "Real" possibilities instead of Hollywood?

Answers: Two questions. You need to change "is it that people" to "is it that some people". For "some" "avid" (I think "fervid" might better describe them), the answers are yes to both.

I say AVID gun users, because there are a group of gun owners who have a gun, bought it for whatever reason, and almost never use it. The gun is in their dresser or closet. There's also the other small percentage who bought a gun after a crime against them was committed. But for the average gun owner who visits forums and such, it appears more that they think the potential threat is greater than it was before they owned a gun.

Comment: You are stating, in effect, that most people ("the average gun owner who visits forums") that post on various fora view threats as greater after they have acquired a firearm.
I don't get that impression at all from my read of the average poster.

Personally, I don't believe the threat has changed. I also understand that the gun is just a tool. No gun has ever saved a person. Just like no gun has ever killed a person. It's the person with the gun that decides what happens next.
"But I really believe that there are a lot of gun owners who throw out normal common sense and rely on the gun to save their life instead of themselves. "

Comment: "a lot" ......what does that mean? 10%? 50% 80%. Two out of five? There are some people like that, I'm sure, maybe a lot, depending on your definition of the term.

And as such, they will continue to try and make the role that the gun plays to be more important. Higher cap magazines, faster reloading, different ammo, manufacturer preferences, etc... The truth is, if they realized that it is they, and not the gun, that determines if there is a threat again them, they'd realize that a 6 shot revolver, 7 shot semi-auto, $300 vs $1200 gun, etc... are all more than enough. Instead, some people are just so pessimistic and believe that if they haven't found a way to conceal a weapon that can hold 50 rounds, and shoot as fast as legal, that there is still work to be done.

Comment: No questions there.

Obviously, we're not talking about those who shoot for sport, hunting, plinking, fun, etc.... I'm speaking of those who have a hard-on about personal/self/home defense.
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respectfully submitted,
Pete
 
Nothing suprising about the "what's your loadout" responses when you consider:
- all the respondents are on a gun forum
- people who don't have their CCW license didn't respond
-several are LEO active or retired and trained to carry multiple guns

Unless you know someones day job, it's unfair to draw conclusions, and it is clearly not a random sampling of citizens.

Now if I saw those responses on a forum dedicated to accountants, or soccer moms, I'd raise an eyebrow and rethink my stereotypes :)
 
I have tried a couple of times in this thread to reiterate, or at less explain the main purpose of my original post. I'll try again with a somewhat different twist. Let's make some rules:
1. Start from this post on
2. This is ALL about attitude and what people are thinking.
3. Nothing about this has ANYTHING to do with "Why do you carry a gun".

In it's simplest form, we're talking about people who have, In My Opinion, gone over the edge. If you look at the link I recently provided, you can see people responding that carry as though they are preparing for a gang war. Yes, there is the "Better to be prepared and not need it, that not be prepared and need it" attitude. Physically, that is correct. Reality, these people have issues. Why don't I keep 2 spare tires in my car? Why don't I also keep 5 gallons of gas in a gas can also? There is an argument for carrying an extra magazine, IF there is a mechanical failure with the first one. But trying to argue an 18 round magazine in the weapon, and another 18 rounder in your pocket because they are trying to justify having 36 rounds of ammo is different. Again, it's all about attitude, not having a gun. Even the title of the thread I posted: "What is your "LOADOUT"?

Yes, some of this is pure Mall Ninja. Those people are simply living in a fantasy world. They think Die-Hard and Lethal Weapon are real life and not movies. Carrying a concealed weapon and possibly even an extra magazine for defensive purposes, is simply having a tool to help you stay safe. Carrying 2-3 additional HI-CAP magazines, additional ones in your car, having a "Loadout" to include every possible accessory in anticipation of the very worst possible scenario in the world, is a combination of paranoia and fantasy of being tough like Rambo. Again, it's an attitude. I live in a place where the winters are mean. People get stranded in their vehicles all the time. Having a basic survival kit in the trunk of a blanket or two, a couple bottles of water, etc... is common practice. But again; I don't carry 2 spare tires, numerous spare parts for the motor, satellite phone in case cell phone coverage is gone, and a bicycle tied to the roof. And Yet, being broken down in the middle of no wheres is MUCH MORE LIKELY than being mugged, robbed, raped, or assaulted. Again, we're talking about an attitude.

Yes, some people went over the edge because of a life experience that changed them. But that is a very small minority. We're talking about a person that went from not carrying concealed, "Probably just didn't have or weren't allowed at the time to carry concealed"; to now being able to carry concealed; and for whatever mental reason, has taken on the rambo, die-hard, mall ninja, etc... type attitude. But they really believe it. Anyway, I'm talking about an attitude. IF this thread continues; and it's free to die at any time; that is what I'd like to see discussed. Why do these people think the way they do. The vast majority of these people were not raised in this paranoid manner. Matter of fact, those who were raised around guns definitely see them more as a tool than as a some major confidence booster that automatically gives them a woody and makes them indestructible.

Hope that explains it better.
 
christcorp said:
Nothing about this has ANYTHING to do with "Why do you carry a gun".

It's a gun forum. People are going to find ways to solve issues with a gun. If you had asked people much the same question in a forum surrounding home repairs you would have gotten responses on how best to winterize doors and windows and when to pump out your septic tank.

It touches a nerve for me. Now granted, self-defense is a right, but I tire of the guys who revel in it. If you could see me type sometimes you would see my roll my eyes over bandwidth bravado and a sensei who hasn't been in fight since grade school.

If I fire a hollowpoint at the range, this type of guy will crack open a wide grin and tell me all about how the exit wound will be bigger than my fist. If I sharpen a kitchen knife the same guy will opine a scenario about human flesh. He is perfect because he has a gun. Question his motives and he will pound you into your lap-top with every excuse and cock-eyed scenario he can muster.

The best you can do in the final analysis is to make sure an adult voice is heard once in a while. Answer posts periodically showing that there are indeed suburban guys in the world that collect guns without the lunatic fantasies. There's no reason a 'sensei' living in his mom's basement should be our collective voice.

...oh, and caulk that bay window, were you born in a barn...
 
In it's simplest form, we're talking about people who have, In My Opinion, gone over the edge. If you look at the link I recently provided, you can see people responding that carry as though they are preparing for a gang war.

Maybe they are preparing for a gang war.

Are you guys crazy and carry an arsenal of guns and knives on your person?
Of note: when you phrase a question in such a manner (your highroad thread) you are inviting that type of response. I think that part of this can be attributed to filtering.

As mentioned above, had this been a home repair forum...
Also, you are looking for this type of behavior (inviting responses along this line) so that is what you will see. Ever buy a new car and then notice just how many others are driving the same model on the roads along with you?

I personally have a more difficult time seeing this behavior. Perhaps it has to do with where I live; not too many malls for the "ninjas". My perception of the average gun owner does not include "them". Perhaps it is that there is no legal need to obtain a CCW permit here to CC and Alaska has a different "mindset"/recent history regarding firearms than the lower 47;Vermont.

No doubt that there are a handfull (exact quantity unknown by me) of people who have
gone over the edge
; I just have not known them personally.

What I have seen are a few people making very poor choices. I have been shot at by drunks with guns. I have seen people point loaded guns at themselves and others. I have seen hunters not paying attention to "and beyond" and heard the report of a hunting rifle pointed almost directly at me; very distinctive and memorable sound I can assure you. I also personally know two people who have accidently shot themselves on completely different occasions; with life altering consequences in each case.

My concern is about gun safety. If someone wants to carry a 15, 18, 33 round magazine (or ten) with them my concern is about the one round chambered.

I agree with the premise of "responsible gun ownership". I am all for promoting education. It is our task to help bring in and educate the next generation of gun owners. (Or is it the next seven generations?)
 
The USA is very unstable, it doesn't take a genius to figure out political instability creates a greater threat. I purchased a semi-Auto 308 to protect myself and fellow citizens from tyranny. The U.N. is pushing for more and more power grabs, I will not let any European, Global Government or Federal Government threaten my property rights. Liberty Or Death.

Natural disasters happen, you see looters in Chile atm, before that New Orleans had the same thing happening. I live in the New Orleans metro area and can safely say a 308 rifle is a highly needed tool. Just in case.

Another threat is Domestic terrorism, Rebel attacks (like against the ones against the IRS) and the growing loss of state resources to combat gangs.

What would California do if the gangs all banded together to have a coup , the state is bankrupt, the military is stretched to its' limit; also with no financial backing.

I don't ever want to live under a dictatorship and I have a fear of being helpless like Iranians. I will die before i lose my state's sovereignty to the encroaching World powers.

I own a 9mm because it is a standard back-up to any weapon. A knife is a back-up for the 9mm. I specifically avoid .223 and all of the AR's because it would seem ineffective against Riot gear. For a minute man situation you need scout weapons for guerrilla tactics.

Self defense isn't necessary in my city because it is huge and people are everywhere and cops patrol regularly. We have no real gang establishment and our Ghetto is limited to specific inner city areas; even there the people only kill over business and do not bother the public.

We are very harmonious despite such a high murder rate. The culture is very different In New Orleans. Up north is scary, people are malicious and i can understand the northern population needing protection. I am very uncomfortable up there driving and walking around at night.
 
Well, I've seen the behavior is some people. Not just on forums, but in real life. And it's usually easy to determine just by the conversations that people have. But tourist, this really does have nothing to do with actually carrying a gun. So when I person responds with: "I carry a gun because ......", that isn't what this is about. 2 people can carry a gun for identical reasons. e.g. dangerous neighborhood. Yet, one can have a totally different attitude about the situation than the other. Hence, the reason for the title of this thread: "Curious Why some people think the way they do". The one person has a snub nose or an LCP in their pocket. They conduct themselves a certain way. Another person has their pistol, but they go on about spending $150 on this special concealed cross draw holster, with their 3 spare mags and holders, a 380 backup on their ankle, 2 more magazines in the car, etc.... And the language/lingo also changes. You can tell by their vocabulary, trying to speak "Professional" about carrying a gun. Granted, this is NOT DEFINITIVE. Some people use "some" of the language, but they aren't the ones auditioning for Lethal Weapon Pt5.

So, why do I think some of these people think this way? I think part of it is trying to feel cool, or important, or because concealed carry is a minority activity, they want to expand their feeling of being special and distinct from the rest of society. I think it's partially an inferiority complex that they are trying to make up for. So, the question still stands. What is the big difference between the "Normal" concealed carry person who has their weapon, whatever make/model it is, in their holster and possibly a spare magazine; and the person who NEVER takes off their weapon, even at home; has multiple extra magazines on their person, extras in their cars and scattered around their house, who buys 3+ different holsters for all their various carrying scenarios. They dissect defensive ammo to an unproven science. They have their "Bugout" or "Loadout" gear every time they walk out the door. And of course the vocabulary. We're talking about different people with totally different perceptions of the same environmental threat. Like I said, I believe that at least "PART" of it is the need to be different, feel special, feel though they have MORE power than the average person, and other personality issues. Anyway, 6+ pages of posts definitely has brought up a lot of different topics for discussion.
 
The only reason , I keep my guns are for the love of shooting & sd.
That being said, I can't see my weapons as a true defense againist the US Arm Forces.
I don't think things will ever get that bad in our lifetime that we become a militia state of that kind. [ at least I hope not ]
Before even thinking about defending myself in that type of scenerio, you would have to deal with local law enforcement & FBI. :(
Movies are made to watch & entertain < not to act out. :(
Our biggest threat is crimminals, imho , the vicious ones.
 
I'm tired of people saying we cannot fight the armed forces. The armed forces are payed with monopoly money. They will disband and faction off when instability gets to a certain point. One word describes this "ROME" . The Military is so huge and out of control, who knows what they will do.

The states run the National Guard. So the National Guard and State police would be fighting a disorganized Military force. States will borrow money from Allied countries and purchase and produce Tanks, Jets, and other such tools of war.

What is amazing to me is how oppressed and subdued the general population has become. The federalism has turned us into sheep.

I don't agree with a 700 billion $ a year military force. It is very ignorant to create something that powerful. As the old saying goes - History repeats itself.

I want federalism gone, I want our original Union back. When we chose to be united instead of coerced to stay united under duress from an overburdening Conservative and Liberal power. Leave me out of it, if your state wants to go to war you vote your state to start a war, I want my State to be sovereign.
 
From what I have experienced in the army , I will never even see them coming if it is seals, green berets, special opps ...... :eek:
 
I want federalism gone, I want our original Union back. When we chose to be united instead of coerced to stay united under duress from an overburdening Conservative and Liberal power. Leave me out of it, if your state wants to go to war you vote your state to start a war, I want my State to be sovereign.

A lttle late in the day for all of that, wouldn't you say, Composer_1777? :rolleyes:
 
Boy, it sure is interesting to stop by every few hours to see where this thread has gone. Some one thinks the country is unstable and we need another system. Well, we tried that and it didn't work. Someone even says the threat is from within. And others believe it. So? Worried about the armed forces? They won't fall apart. At least, no one else's ever did. Can't predict which way it would go. Ex-servicemen in Germany brought Hitler to power, you might have called them conservative or reactionary. Yet at about the same time, the army that went over to the Boleshevik side in that revolution brought the Reds to power. Were they liberals? And what happened to the army in Iran when the Shah left town?

Sure, there could be another civil war. If there was one, there could certainly be another. What's the regional issue? Will having a gun help one way or the other? I do believe we have serious problems, none related to the army or to guns or crime or immigration legal or otherwise. Yet no one seems to be talking about what I see our most serious problems to be. You are being told it might be gay marriage (what about divorce?) or something like that but I suspect someone's pulling the wool over your eyes. Why do I keep seeing mention of people being out of work on this forum?
 
Christcorp, oh, I agree with you more than you might think. I've read a great many gun and MA forums, and many times I cannot even believe there are members who expect we take them seriously.

As for 'tyranny,' I have that covered. If I see King George III near the bike shop, I shall post a notice here immediately.

If anything I cannot believe how gullible people can be. I know a sensei who posts pictures of himself. Over the years I've watched him grow even more pasty and ever more plumper. Clearly a man more of the donut than of the dojo. The only advice I would take from him is where to get the best deal on a Snickers bar. Yet, he makes a living.

My guess is 'fear,' and the fear of fear. You have no idea how many times I've heard someone justify the purchase of a metric ton of ammunition with the caveat "just in case." There are so many of these guys out there that sooner or later YouTube is going to post a video of a guy building an "escape submarine" just in case the Mayans were right.

In fact, you can always tell when you're getting to close to a guy's mantra. I've noticed over the past few days I've taken some criticism--mostly for saying "watch that sharp edge and run if you can." This is good advice for any pursuit, but it's heresy for the guy who needs the end of the world.

To answer your concerns honestly, it's not a gun forum, it's not a gun salesman, it's not a gun. You have to shut off the computer once in a while and go meet some real live breathing people. The folks you worry the most about simply need balance.

I do take my own advice. There are entire weeks during the summer when I don't even check e-mail. I was gone from this forum for so long I didn't know if I was still a member or banned. You'd be amazed on how much of this silliness would just disappear if folks just went jogging.
 
The only action possible then would be to get up in the morning and to start worrying about everything. If I had a time machine I would go back, find myself as a boy and tell him to stop worrying about anything and everything. Chasing the boogeyman has never enhanced my performance in a single thing.
 
I guess the Nazi parades and Communists movements in the 1930's "In the United states" only 70 years ago is chasing a bogeyman right?

I prefer the back-up plan of dying free than living under these Flags.

4299129268_6520139f43.jpg
 
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From what I have experienced in the army , I will never even see them coming if it is seals, green berets, special opps ......

Oh, you'll know, alright. Just keep your eyes open for the black helicopter looking for a place to land and for the beige Ford sedan with the whip antenna and guys in it with chrome sunglasses shielding their eyes, parked outside your house. ;)
 
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