I have them on two of my guns (both Sig's) and am very happy with them. Are they a crutch .. maybe, but less so if you practice outside in strong light as well as the dark/indoors. Since I can't see them when outdoors (most of my range time), I feel I get a good balance of training with and without them.
Crimson Trace Grips worth the money?
- Thread starter oneloudvous
- Start date
therealtwitch
New member
still waiting on my grips. I sent them in for repair leaving my with out my primary carry gun. They guaranteed me a 3 day turn around time. I called today and they told me they received them on the 18 and fixed them immediately, however still haven't sent them out yet. they offered no reason for the delay and would only say they will try to get them out today or tomorrow. what a crock!!!
Bill Deshivs said: "The green lasers are phenomenally bright. You can use them in daylight."
I quite agree. At the indoor range where I practice weekly, a guy in the booth a couple down from me recently had a green laser installed. His green spot was almost blinding, even when shining the chopped tire backstop 25 yards away. I tried my red laser Crimson Trace sight on that backstop and barely saw it. He left before I did, so I don't know what product he had. But I do know this: he had to turn it on and off manually.
It seems that green is the most visible color to human eyes. Indeed, for busting bowling pins at 50 yards in the noonday sun, only green lasers will fetch it. But for that kind of shooting, iron sights shine (heh heh). Red laser sights are just fine for HD/SD situations, say 5-10 yards in the dark. Since Crimson Trace is after this market, not the bowling-pins-at-50-yards market, they intend to stick to red.
And they suit me. Just wish CT made them also for my JC Higgins .22 nine round six shooter and my wife's .380 Colt Pocket Model.
Cordially, Jack
I quite agree. At the indoor range where I practice weekly, a guy in the booth a couple down from me recently had a green laser installed. His green spot was almost blinding, even when shining the chopped tire backstop 25 yards away. I tried my red laser Crimson Trace sight on that backstop and barely saw it. He left before I did, so I don't know what product he had. But I do know this: he had to turn it on and off manually.
It seems that green is the most visible color to human eyes. Indeed, for busting bowling pins at 50 yards in the noonday sun, only green lasers will fetch it. But for that kind of shooting, iron sights shine (heh heh). Red laser sights are just fine for HD/SD situations, say 5-10 yards in the dark. Since Crimson Trace is after this market, not the bowling-pins-at-50-yards market, they intend to stick to red.
And they suit me. Just wish CT made them also for my JC Higgins .22 nine round six shooter and my wife's .380 Colt Pocket Model.
Cordially, Jack
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therealtwitch
New member
green laser that has to be turned on and off manually is most likely a laser max unirail. I have one in red, but sadly it too had minor issues and was sent back to be repaired. should be back tomorrow. Much better customer service. But I have heard it wont fit on my pps. if not I am gonna sell it to get a better holster for the pps. thats the good and bad of rail mount laser. Bad: has to be turned on and off manually; and makes finding a good holster a pain. good: if it breaks and has to be sent in you don lose the use of you gun like the ct revolver grip. take the good with the bad. I like lasers but CT has left a bad taste in my mouth with there guarantees that they haven't honored
Realwitch, you said, "CT has left a bad taste in my mouth with there guarantees that they haven't honored."
Full disclosure: I have described CT's customer support in very favorable terms, including within this thread. Would you elaborate on 'guarantees that they haven't honored'?
Cordially, Jack
Full disclosure: I have described CT's customer support in very favorable terms, including within this thread. Would you elaborate on 'guarantees that they haven't honored'?
Cordially, Jack
My wifes glock 26
Just put a pair of ct grips on her glock last night. Got them on line for $169.50 and free shipping. She loves them and I like them also. I like checking my sight picture by blocking the laser with my trigger finger set my sight picture and them let the laser go and see if I was on target. She uses snap caps and the laser shows what happens at trigger pull.
Just put a pair of ct grips on her glock last night. Got them on line for $169.50 and free shipping. She loves them and I like them also. I like checking my sight picture by blocking the laser with my trigger finger set my sight picture and them let the laser go and see if I was on target. She uses snap caps and the laser shows what happens at trigger pull.
No offense to anybody here, but aren't laser grips kinda cheating? Sure, they might help you win a gunfight. Maybe not. As an old fashioned purist though, laser grips don't prove somebody is a good marksman any more than sitting behind the wheel on auto-pilot proves you can fly well.
Huh?
Are you under the impression that shots fired from a firearm equipped with laser sights are somehow "laser guided," like a missile or something??
All that a laser does is provide an alternate sighting system when it is too dark to get a good sight picture, or when circumstances preclude placing your eyeball directly behind the sights for whatever reason. That's it, that's ALL.
They won't make you a better shooter.
They won't guide your bullets into the target.
They aren't magic.
They don't take the place of good trigger control.
And they sure don't "fly the plane" for you. You still have to do that. If you're a dastardly trigger-jerker, those laser sights are not going to improve your targets one tiny little bit.
They simply provide an alternate sighting system in low light conditions when ordinary sights are not practically useful.
pax
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I can see where a laser definitely helps with certain aspects of poor shooting, like sight alignment for instance. It certainly won't help with trigger control though. So, if you're terrible at lining up your sights then a laser might make you a better shot. If you pull the gun 2 feet off target at 25 yards when you yank the trigger.... not so much.
peetzakilla ~
You'd think so. But the problem is that lasers simply don't work all that well in full daylight. As a result, people who try to use them in full light typically start shooting more slowly and with less confidence than they had before.
Sometimes people try to "co-witness" the laser, trying to carefully align the rear sight with the laser dot on target or somesuch. Not just unnecessary, but actively detrimental to their shooting accuracy, and horribly slow.
What I'm getting at is that there are a lot of ways to mis-use laser sights that negatively impact your shooting. But those who use them as they are designed & intended to be used find that they superlatively fill that niche -- a niche which no other tools reasonably fill.
pax
You'd think so. But the problem is that lasers simply don't work all that well in full daylight. As a result, people who try to use them in full light typically start shooting more slowly and with less confidence than they had before.
Sometimes people try to "co-witness" the laser, trying to carefully align the rear sight with the laser dot on target or somesuch. Not just unnecessary, but actively detrimental to their shooting accuracy, and horribly slow.
What I'm getting at is that there are a lot of ways to mis-use laser sights that negatively impact your shooting. But those who use them as they are designed & intended to be used find that they superlatively fill that niche -- a niche which no other tools reasonably fill.
pax
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
No doubt. I can easily believe that a laser could be negative instead of a positive, especially without the proper training.
The daylight problem, that's an interesting one. The makers keep claiming that they've solved (or at least substantially reduced) that problem. Of course, when every new version supposedly solves the same problem that the previous version solved... well, it seems a little suspicious.
I'd like to get my hands on one to see how I like it... but it's a pricey experiment.No, I am not deluded about the purpose or functioning of laser grips. Yes, I understand the concept of using them in low-light conditions. I still contend that, all else equal, the person who can hit the target without laser grips is a better shooter than the person who requires the help of the laser grips. Not that everybody who uses laser grips doesn't know how to shoot without them, but I do believe some people use them as a substitute for good aim by sight.
You might be right, drrpg01. But if the laser grips make the less good shooter shoot better, isn't that reason enough for their existence?
I'm finding that my CTs are not much use outdoors in full sunlight, but I don't need them in full sunlight, not at the range doing target shooting in any event. In lower light or poor contrast, they're a wonderful help. As many here have noted, they're no substitute for practice and skill, but they're a good tool, especially for those of us who have less than perfect vision.
I'm finding that my CTs are not much use outdoors in full sunlight, but I don't need them in full sunlight, not at the range doing target shooting in any event. In lower light or poor contrast, they're a wonderful help. As many here have noted, they're no substitute for practice and skill, but they're a good tool, especially for those of us who have less than perfect vision.
Then that's what you should have said in the first place.
(And we agree!)So now a question for you: who's the better shooter?
- Someone who quickly and efficiently hits the target with iron sights only
- Someone who quickly and efficiently hits the target by pointshooting without sights only
- Someone who quickly and efficiently hits the target with a laser only
- Someone who can choose between each of these tools without a moment's hesitation based on the specific conditions the situation requires
If you're a good enough shooter, you probably don't even need those iron sights in most defensive circumstances. Although few people ever put in the time and work to become "good enough" in this particular context; most are satisfied to use iron sights to hit center mass slowfire on a cardboard target at 10 yards or thereabouts, and call it good without realizing there could be more to the story.
On the other hand, there are foreseeable defensive circumstances where a laser-equipped firearm is going to be a true godsend in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. In certain narrow but not unlikely circumstances, a laser is really the only appropriate tool for the job, and everything else a pale substitute.
And on that, we can certainly agree!
pax
My wife and I just got back from the range. This was our first trip with the ct grips. When shooting before my wife missed so bad I had no idea what she was doing. With the laser I could see what was happening at trigger pull. We use 8 inch diameter shoot and see targets. Before tonight it was very common for her to miss the target 9 out of 10 shots tonight she hit it 8 out of ten times and we know what she is doing wrong now. She is breaking down her wrist and jerking the trigger but she got better every mag and has way more confidence in herself. Her sight picture improved also . She shot our p22 and was ten for ten in the target. It has no laser. Also the dvd that came with the grips shows many ways to use them .
peetza ~
The newer generation are undeniably better and brighter than the older generations, but they still are slower in full daylight -- especially on 3-dimensional, multi-colored targets such as a clothed human-shaped torso.
Truthfully, I'm enough of a dinosaur myself that I'm not convinced that "daylight" is a problem that needs to be solved with a laser. Learn to shoot with iron sights, learn to pointshoot when you can't use those sights, learn to trust the laser in low light. Problem solved!
There really isn't a do-everything sight solution, because there are just too many variables. Will the lighting shift? Will you be in deep shadow and the target in full daylight glare? Or the other way around? Will you need to work from an awkward position on your knees around weak side cover? Will you be moving and if so in which direction? How much time will you have? All of these things deeply and dramatically affect the question of which tool is "best." So my advice is to just get used to choosing the most appropriate sighting tool for the job. Then the problem of shifts in lighting, shifts in 'tactical' needs, and shifts in your practical ability to get behind the sights or get your perfect pointshooting stance lined up really solves itself.
As drrpg01 pointed out, there really is no tool available -- not a sight system, not a holster, not a caliber, not a firearm, not an accessory -- that will solve a training problem. There really aren't any shortcuts: First, learn to shoot ...
pax
The newer generation are undeniably better and brighter than the older generations, but they still are slower in full daylight -- especially on 3-dimensional, multi-colored targets such as a clothed human-shaped torso.
Truthfully, I'm enough of a dinosaur myself that I'm not convinced that "daylight" is a problem that needs to be solved with a laser. Learn to shoot with iron sights, learn to pointshoot when you can't use those sights, learn to trust the laser in low light. Problem solved!
There really isn't a do-everything sight solution, because there are just too many variables. Will the lighting shift? Will you be in deep shadow and the target in full daylight glare? Or the other way around? Will you need to work from an awkward position on your knees around weak side cover? Will you be moving and if so in which direction? How much time will you have? All of these things deeply and dramatically affect the question of which tool is "best." So my advice is to just get used to choosing the most appropriate sighting tool for the job. Then the problem of shifts in lighting, shifts in 'tactical' needs, and shifts in your practical ability to get behind the sights or get your perfect pointshooting stance lined up really solves itself.
As drrpg01 pointed out, there really is no tool available -- not a sight system, not a holster, not a caliber, not a firearm, not an accessory -- that will solve a training problem. There really aren't any shortcuts: First, learn to shoot ...
pax
Good question. I would say the person who can do #4 is best prepared to defend themselves in the greatest diversity of situations. I would be pretty impressed with the person who can consistently do #2 though. I think a person who can hit their target without sighting at all is the best shooter as far as marksmanship. I just always use traditional sighting. In my experience, that is not usually as easy as most people would think it might be.
I have them on my Beretta 92FS, my main HD pistol.
Never thought I would have them, but when I was browsing EBAY for a holster, I found there were quite a few of the discontinued CTC LG-202 two panel grips for sale cheap, so I got a pair.
I have to say I like them a lot. I've been shooting for many years...good point shooter, good with aimed fire. There is no doubt that the CTC grips are a great addition to an HD weapon.
From what I have read, they are very popular with our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Never thought I would have them, but when I was browsing EBAY for a holster, I found there were quite a few of the discontinued CTC LG-202 two panel grips for sale cheap, so I got a pair.
I have to say I like them a lot. I've been shooting for many years...good point shooter, good with aimed fire. There is no doubt that the CTC grips are a great addition to an HD weapon.
From what I have read, they are very popular with our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.