Controlling a suspect

Thanks Capt. Charlie for not locking this one. I think it has given a good run of dialogue on the subject and it's been educational for the most part. :)

I still stand behind my earlier statement that IF we get to that point I want him proned out face down with ankles crossed and arms extended outward palms up. Someone else added that his ankles should be touching his tush and he should be looking away from you and that's not a bad idea either. One more movement before getting to his feet and it keeps him from keeping tabs on you.

The biggest thing for me though is once he's down stay away from him. Don't try to get fancy with handcuffs and such. Let the police do the policework.
 
I have training with restraint, But I DO NOT think it's a good idea AT ALL. I have some training in verbalization DURING a SD situation, but very little in controlling a perp who is on my floor (wonder why that wasn't covered). Time to plan vacation days and save up for more training, I guess.
 
I guess I never addressed the training aspect in my earlier posts.

I do hold black belt in two martial art systems that focus heavily on grappling/controls. I also am/have been certified in several crisis intervention/prevention/control systems (NCI, PIC, CPI) to be used with mental health patients and have been (in prior years) an instructor in such systems. I have the requisite skills to handle a physical control situation if it comes to it, but I don't wanna go there if I don't have to. I'd rather stand off and maintain distance with a firearm thanks.

I've never had any LEO training nor am I military/prior military.
 
sorry for my late reply, was out all day car shopping. Bought a new one. sweetness! another bill for an item I can't use (wifeys car :(

anywho, I think controling a suspect is a smart thing to do, ONLY when the situation allows it. Now problem is, those situations are very very limited so the odds of it even going to happen, slim to none.
 
I am thinking that the best restraining you can do when a intruder appears to capitulate would be restraining yourself from shooting him. I don't think One of the "kill em all" crowd has ever had to take a life in combat, SD, or otherwise. You could hold him at gunpoint till LE arrives however, you will be the one pointing a gun at another when the adrenalin charged cavalry arrives. That could be more life threatening than the initial intrusion. I don't have the ultimate answer! I think it is different by case and individual. Just remember, a clean shoot will still affect your life and you may be suprised at how few pats on the back you get. So, if being a hero in your own mind is what you are looking for then by all means "castle doctine away"
 
Thanks Capt Charlie.

The basic purpose I had in bringing up this subject was to find out how many people had actually thought about what to do if they catch someone who appears to be no immediate threat - that is, someone who surrenders.

It is true that trying to clear your house while solo is a bad idea. But I consider that a different subject as here we are talking about doing a "midnight recon" to confirm if the noise was an intruder or simply the cat knocking a book off the coffee table. Was that "thump" you heard in the backyard someone landing on the ground? Or the neighbor's fat Mr. Tomcat jumping from a tree onto the wooden fence? So you got up and checked, there is the person inside, you spot him, point your gun and tell him not to move.

So now what? Well, we've heard from a number of people with a mish-mash of ideas, some good, some not so good and a few that are scary. The essence remains that you now have to control this person until the polizei arrive.

As I see it, you really have just two choices. Carefully direct him out the exit and tell him to get lost... OR ...take control of the situation, prone him out and wait for your local PD to supply reinforcements.

It's one thing to wake up to an odd noise that happens only once or wondering what knocked over the beer can on the kitchen counter. It's quite another thing to wake up and hear someone inside, stumbling over the kid's toys and muttering to themselves.

In the latter case, where you know someone is in the house remember this saying;

Never go looking for trouble, you might find it.

I'm also reminded by a friend and former USMC sniper of his "world view" - No matter how bada** you think you are, there is always someone out there who is better than you.

Keep your commands short and concise.
Remember to avoid tunnel vision - watch for accomplices.
Focus on getting the intruder prone and under control first. Don't engage in a conversation until he's proned out and controlled.

If the subject asks what you intend to do, tell them the truth - I'm going to let the cops take you away. or I'm going to turn you over the the cops.

The two most difficult situations I can think of here are the ultra-nervous guy and the guy who refuses to do anything you tell him.

If you get some nervous buster waiving his arms and pleading not to shoot, you'll have to yell your commands to get through his yammering. But also watch that this isn't a ruse to get closer to you or something to dive behind.

The guy who just stops and doesn't do anything can be more frightening. You can't tell if he is deaf, doesn't understand English, insane, on drugs or testing you to look for an advantage.

Always try to fix their position in relationship to some object. If you see them moving away from that object, even if just by shifting their feet, remind them "If you keep moving, you're going to get shot."
 
I don't think One of the "kill em all" crowd has ever had to take a life in combat, SD, or otherwise.
Just because someone chooses to handle a situation different than yourself it would be silly to assume that they have never actually taken a life in combat or self-defense.
It's just a totally baseless notion.

The basic purpose I had in bringing up this subject was to find out how many people had actually thought about what to do if they catch someone who appears to be no immediate threat - that is, someone who surrenders.
While I agree that you cannot just shoot someone outside your home who "appears to be no immediate threat" or who "surrenders", inside the home it is another matter altogether....

An intruder in your home should ALWAYS be treated as a threat to you and your family, regardless of how the APPEAR.

The essence remains that you now have to control this person until the polizei arrive.
No. It is not your job to apprehend criminals (unless you are a cop).
 
This is an absurd debate. Unless you are willing to shoot a guy in the back who is unwilling to stay put what are you going to do? If you are willing to shoot someone in the back rather than let them leave your house then you probably shouldn't be allowed to own anything more dangerous than a baseball bat.

In most states it is illegal for a non-cop to detain anyone. Asking how one should go about performing this illegal and ill-advised action is akin to asking how to make meth.
 
Here's another point, raised by BillCA:

In spanish, the command for


"Do Not Move" is:
"No te muevas!"
(pronounced "no tay mweh-vahs")


Don't pay attention to online translations, as they are inaccurate, translating to things like "It doesn't move".




"Lay down!"
"acuéstese"
(pronounced "ah kwess- teh- say")



"On the floor!"
"en el piso"
(pronounced "enn ell pee-so")




"face down!"
"cara abajo"
(pronounced "cah-rah a-bah-hoe")



"I will kill you"
"te mato"
(pronounced "tay mah-toe")


"If you move"
"si te mueves"
(pronounced "see tay mweh-vess")


"hands open"
"manos abierto"
(pronounced "mah-nose ah-byehr-toe")


"hands out"
"manos para fuera"
(pronounced "mah-nose parah -fweh-dah")


"don't look at me"
"no me mires"
(pronounced "no may mee-dess")
 
In most states it is illegal for a non-cop to detain anyone. Asking how one should go about performing this illegal and ill-advised action is akin to asking how to make meth.

Be careful in making such sweeping assertions. Most (all?) states allow for citizens to detain those whom they witness committing felonies. Most refer to it as citizen's arrests, while North Carolina just provides a right for citizen's to detain someone. The key elements at issue are that must be for a felony (state laws vary on whether detention is allowed for non-felonies or acts not witnessed by the detainer) and the lack of civil/criminal immunity for civilians if they are wrong. Then again, if we are still discussing drawing weapons, then we've witnessed a felony and are probably entitled to shoot said person. So, both elements are probably satisfied in the scenarios under discussion.
 
I am not a cop, and don't want to be one. If my life is under threat, and I fear I may be killed, I would act on that.
If the perp 'capitulates', and wants to leave, I am SO totally cool with that too.
 
Realistically...

if you have an intruder in your home at 2am, then the intruder is armed. Count on it. I guess that's why we here in Florida have the 'shoot to kill' law about intruders. In the newspaper, when ever there is a notice about intruders, they are always armed, and it's just a matter of seconds who gets the upper hand. Mostly they get the upper hand and demand to be given the guns and the money. To ask of the public to be 'nice' and 'talkative' to intruders is very costly to the society in the long run, in that good people get killed by those not so nice and talkative intruders. The few times I hear suspicious noise at night, I don't light up my house. I know where my wife and daughter sleep and I know their pattern of moving, should I see them in the dark kitchen. I'm not going turn on the light if a bearded shadow is coming at me, so that I can better 'judge' the situation, nor do I want to give away the little advance I have on him, which is knowing how my home looks like in the dark. Come that bearded shadow sailing in the dark and I'm just gonna pump lead. It's a reflex, call it 'conrolled' if you wish so. You have a fraction of a second in advance on an intruder in your own home. Use it to your adantage. If I'm in the jury, you are 'not guilty' for shooting an intruder to death, be he armed or not armed.
 
Get real

Realistically...

Survey sez....BUZZZ! NEVER shoot first and ask questions later. Only use lethal force when legally and morally justified. NEVER lie or fabricate a story (but keep your mouth shut until you've got a lawyer...).

OK, here's what I would do:

Start yelling "get down" in a forceful yet controlled manner. The guy will either run away (in which case don't shoot), attack you (in which case you may be justified to use lethal force) or, most likely, get down (in which case you wait for back-up to arrive).

If, when faced with a gun, the guy doesn't immediately comply or flee, I would get very nervous indeed.

Generally, I would not go "hands-on" until back-up is on scene, regardless of my skills. If back-up isn't close, then you need to make some decisions, I guess. Stay flexible. In real life, you can usually tell if someone is going to go with the program. Keep your distance, though.
 
Survey sez....BUZZZ! NEVER shoot first and ask questions later. Only use lethal force when legally and morally justified.
Not to get off topic, but finding someone in your home at night armed or not does meet the legal requirement for use of deadly force in many states. In those same states, you have no legal requirement to ask or tell them anything.
 
pop em in the knee cap. Take them longer to run away.

Save that for Hollywood. IF you are justified in using deadly force on someone don't waste it on their kneecap. He may not return the favor. IF he's running away then you are no longer justified in using deadly force. Careful when you post things like that. Fuel for the anti's.
 
pop em in the knee cap. Take them longer to run away.
You have now discharged a weapon in a confined area, in the dark. You now hear nothing but ringing. The perp hears nothing but ringing. Your wife and kids are screaming. The cops are now responding to "shots fired". You've taken away the possibility that he may decide to get out of your life for good. It's a little hard to be in control now, isn't it?
 
pop em in the knee cap. Take them longer to run away.

So, you'd apply deadly force to control a suspect? I hope those who wrote you recommendations to be an LEO are willing to be character witnesses at your trial.
 
if you have an intruder in your home at 2am, then the intruder is armed. Count on it.


Absolutely the mindset I'd have.


If I see a bearded figure, stalking his way towards my bedroom, or across the hall towards my kids' rooms, I'm going to take immediate action on him. No doubt.

The thread, however, was about a rather different scenario:
You have your weapon at the ready, you are moving through your house, investigating a "sound", and in an unexpected turn of events, you hear a stranger behind the couch say "don't shoot!". You spin around, and he's standing with his hands in the sky.

What do you do?
 
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