Controlling a suspect
- Thread starter BillCA
- Start date
I don't know who you're referring to, but let's not get another thread locked by childish name-calling again.
Maybe you leave your doors unlocked in a neighborhood where "confused drunks" wander the streets?
If so, then maybe you should consider locking the doors or moving to a better neighborhood.
But as I stated before, I keep mine locked.
So there's just no way a person can enter my home by mistake.
First they would have to physically break a window or a door lock and then enter....that is reason enough to shoot them....people that break into homes are not just "confused drunks", they are threats to your safety.
It's not like I'm living in a hotel room where someone might walk in the wrong room by mistake.
I can't speak for the other forum members, but I've said nothing in this thread that I would not say in court.
If someone breaks in to my home I will consider them a threat to me and my family and shoot them.
Oh my! We do have a mish-mash of opinions and some naive people in my opinion.
First, let me say that this thread came about after the "Weapons light" thread was closed. So far as I can tell, people are fixated on shooting or not, but haven't given thought to what happens if you don't or can't shoot.
At least two posters believes that a person in his home at night is automatically a target. You had best ID that subject first or face the consequences. If that subject turns out to be an unarmed teenage neighbor your court bills will be substantial.
Per both private and department lawyers, you should never say that you intend to "kill" someone. It is better to say "If you move, I will shoot you." You need not detail how many times or the consequences. IF it should happen that you do shoot, any witnesses to your words will appear in court. Likewise, if Johnny Gangbanger survives the shoot, he may claim "I heard him say he was gonna kill me so I tried to run to get away from the crazy SOB!"
A good example of education-in-progress. Hands behind the back allows access to the waistband area. I have seen two "standards" used in what is termed "Felony prone" positions. Hands out, palms up or hands behind the head, fingers interlaced. For civilians the palms-up is probably better, since for the suspect to get off the floor he will have to flip his hands over and bend his elbows to get leverage. It will also reveal any "palmed" small object as a knife. Also, some of us will be without eyeglasses and can't see if his fingers are interlaced.
Just be adaptable here if you catch him in a narrow hallway (where he can't spread his arms out) or if furniture will obscure your view of his hands.
One additional measure: Have the suspect turn his head away from you. This way he can't see what you are doing or where you are exactly to formulate any countermeasures. I.e. he cant see that you are dialing 911 on your cell phone (which you are holding up high so you don't have to look down to dial) or see you moving to better concealment or cover.
Jim, other than the Miranda warning, which citizens are under no obligation to provide, you're pretty spot on. If you surprise an intruder who immediately raises his hands, your legal options are to direct him out the door to let him go OR restrain him at gunpoint until the Authorities arrive. However, a suspect facing a gun who turns with his hands raised and calmly walks towards the exit is dangerous - even though you can't legally shoot him. This is one of those unusual "incidents" that training warns us about.
So far, no one has posted what commands they would use or how they would initially address someone (other than two posters who said their muzzles would do the talking).
First, let me say that this thread came about after the "Weapons light" thread was closed. So far as I can tell, people are fixated on shooting or not, but haven't given thought to what happens if you don't or can't shoot.
At least two posters believes that a person in his home at night is automatically a target. You had best ID that subject first or face the consequences. If that subject turns out to be an unarmed teenage neighbor your court bills will be substantial.
Per both private and department lawyers, you should never say that you intend to "kill" someone. It is better to say "If you move, I will shoot you." You need not detail how many times or the consequences. IF it should happen that you do shoot, any witnesses to your words will appear in court. Likewise, if Johnny Gangbanger survives the shoot, he may claim "I heard him say he was gonna kill me so I tried to run to get away from the crazy SOB!"
Woefully unprepared. There are a number of situations to watch for that training will prepare you for.
Yes and they can be a nightmare to the untrained or ill prepared, both in physical and legal consequences.
A good example of education-in-progress. Hands behind the back allows access to the waistband area. I have seen two "standards" used in what is termed "Felony prone" positions. Hands out, palms up or hands behind the head, fingers interlaced. For civilians the palms-up is probably better, since for the suspect to get off the floor he will have to flip his hands over and bend his elbows to get leverage. It will also reveal any "palmed" small object as a knife. Also, some of us will be without eyeglasses and can't see if his fingers are interlaced.
Just be adaptable here if you catch him in a narrow hallway (where he can't spread his arms out) or if furniture will obscure your view of his hands. One additional measure: Have the suspect turn his head away from you. This way he can't see what you are doing or where you are exactly to formulate any countermeasures. I.e. he cant see that you are dialing 911 on your cell phone (which you are holding up high so you don't have to look down to dial) or see you moving to better concealment or cover.
Jim, other than the Miranda warning, which citizens are under no obligation to provide, you're pretty spot on. If you surprise an intruder who immediately raises his hands, your legal options are to direct him out the door to let him go OR restrain him at gunpoint until the Authorities arrive. However, a suspect facing a gun who turns with his hands raised and calmly walks towards the exit is dangerous - even though you can't legally shoot him. This is one of those unusual "incidents" that training warns us about.
So far, no one has posted what commands they would use or how they would initially address someone (other than two posters who said their muzzles would do the talking).
In my previous post, I indicated that a suspect you have at gunpoint who turns and walks towards an exit with his hands up is dangerous, but I didn't explain why.
First, think of the cajones it takes to do that. We're not dealing with your average guy who's afraid of being shot. At that moment you're asking yourself "WTF is he doing?". He could be;
Some years ago a training film documented prisoners working out ways to befuddle citizens with guns. In one case the "instructor" coached the student in what to say and how to move. It was creative.
The suspect comes on as frightened and talkative. But he starts talking about the headaches and trouble YOU will get into if you shoot "someone unarmed". He paints a picture for you - "Dude, you don't wanna go to jail cuz o' me. Just let me go, man. It'd cost you forty or fifty thousand bucks for a lawyer man! ..." At each of the underlined points, the "instructor" coached the suspect to move his weight so he could slide a foot forward just barely off the ground. They coached to continue the pleading all the while forcing thoughts of YOUR prosecution and ruin into your head. This is done to slow your reaction time so he can attack if he can get close enough or get behind something from which to attack.
The key element here was to watch his position and if he begins to approach, cut him off with a firm "Don't Move Again. Shut Up. Do ONLY as I say." Followed by explict commands.
TIP: Most frightened people will plead with you to not shoot THEM, that THEY aren't a threat, that THEY are sorry for the wrong house, etc. If they're talking about YOUR woes if you shoot it's ruse to slow you down. Take control immediately and be rude enough to keep it.
Another film showed (police) repsonses for someone who just fails to comply with almost any command. Their hands are empty, in sight, but commands to raise their hands, get on the floor, speak, sit or roll-over are ignored. The person may be deaf (unlikely), too scared to comply, drugged/drunk and unable to understand your commands. Alas, the responses presumed police training and access to batons, tasers and chemical sprays.
"Hands Up!"
If you command someone to raise their hands when should you be satisfied?
Chest high?
Shoulder high?
Over their heads?
The answer is - when their arms are fully extended above their heads. The primary reason is that in this position shirts and some jackets will rise up over the beltline, revealing any weapons (guns/knives/etc). If they are facing you, have them turn to the left and face away from you so you can see the right side beltline (most folks are right handed). If you do spot a weapon, command them to halt, then tell them "I see your weapon. If you reach for it I'll shoot you." Then have them complete the turn to face away from you, hands still up. Another reason is that burglars & rapists often grab a kitchen knife. If that is held under an arm, raising the arms may cause it to fall out of their clothing or drop to a noticable point in their clothing.
One other note: Never use racial slurs when commanding someone and avoid using dehumanizing terms for them. You don't want it to come up in police reports that you emulated Mark Fuhrman's opinion of blacks or repeatedly referred to the suspect as dogsh**, dogmeat, dead-man, or a f-ing <race/nationality>. It will not help your case at all.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled discussions.
First, think of the cajones it takes to do that. We're not dealing with your average guy who's afraid of being shot. At that moment you're asking yourself "WTF is he doing?". He could be;
- Leaving, hoping you won't shoot him in the back.
- Testing your ability to control the situation.
- Moving to a point of concealment he's picked out earlier where he can draw his own weapon.
- Distracting you from a possible undiscovered partner inside or outside.
- Moving to where a lightswitch is, hoping you'll be dazzled long enough for him to take you down.
Some years ago a training film documented prisoners working out ways to befuddle citizens with guns. In one case the "instructor" coached the student in what to say and how to move. It was creative.
The suspect comes on as frightened and talkative. But he starts talking about the headaches and trouble YOU will get into if you shoot "someone unarmed". He paints a picture for you - "Dude, you don't wanna go to jail cuz o' me. Just let me go, man. It'd cost you forty or fifty thousand bucks for a lawyer man! ..." At each of the underlined points, the "instructor" coached the suspect to move his weight so he could slide a foot forward just barely off the ground. They coached to continue the pleading all the while forcing thoughts of YOUR prosecution and ruin into your head. This is done to slow your reaction time so he can attack if he can get close enough or get behind something from which to attack.
The key element here was to watch his position and if he begins to approach, cut him off with a firm "Don't Move Again. Shut Up. Do ONLY as I say." Followed by explict commands.
TIP: Most frightened people will plead with you to not shoot THEM, that THEY aren't a threat, that THEY are sorry for the wrong house, etc. If they're talking about YOUR woes if you shoot it's ruse to slow you down. Take control immediately and be rude enough to keep it.
Another film showed (police) repsonses for someone who just fails to comply with almost any command. Their hands are empty, in sight, but commands to raise their hands, get on the floor, speak, sit or roll-over are ignored. The person may be deaf (unlikely), too scared to comply, drugged/drunk and unable to understand your commands. Alas, the responses presumed police training and access to batons, tasers and chemical sprays.
"Hands Up!"
If you command someone to raise their hands when should you be satisfied?
Chest high?
Shoulder high?
Over their heads?
The answer is - when their arms are fully extended above their heads. The primary reason is that in this position shirts and some jackets will rise up over the beltline, revealing any weapons (guns/knives/etc). If they are facing you, have them turn to the left and face away from you so you can see the right side beltline (most folks are right handed). If you do spot a weapon, command them to halt, then tell them "I see your weapon. If you reach for it I'll shoot you." Then have them complete the turn to face away from you, hands still up. Another reason is that burglars & rapists often grab a kitchen knife. If that is held under an arm, raising the arms may cause it to fall out of their clothing or drop to a noticable point in their clothing.
One other note: Never use racial slurs when commanding someone and avoid using dehumanizing terms for them. You don't want it to come up in police reports that you emulated Mark Fuhrman's opinion of blacks or repeatedly referred to the suspect as dogsh**, dogmeat, dead-man, or a f-ing <race/nationality>. It will not help your case at all.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled discussions.
I hear a bump in the night. I assume they are downstairs, as I grab my loaded XD service with hollows, and my 4'' LED flashlight, I wake up the wifey, tell her if she hears me yelling, to call 911. (ofcourse if she hears gunshots she'll call as well) And I'll go ahead and with my light off, check the other two rooms upstairs. just a quick peek, while keeping my eye on the stairway. If I hear something, flash the wifey in the bedroom with the light. Then proceed to walk down the stairs. Now I usualy have a few nightlights on, or in the kitchen, the stove light. USE WHATEVER YOU CAN TO GET AN IDEA OF WHERE SOMEONE MAY BE!! I'd listen, use my best judgement on where suspect would be. Look for shadows on the ground/walls. Mirrors. Walk into the kitchen, using walls as cover overlooking all entry/exits for that room. Now as I find my suspect, I would yell at him "FREEZE DON'T MOVE. I will shoot you if you move". Ofcourse in my controling voice. Loud but calm. Tone, but not like I'm trying. Then depending on how he/she takes that..thats what will tell me what to say/do next, like in any situation.
Hope this answer works cause I train like this a few times a year with the wifey just incase someone decides to come into my home
rantingredneck
New member
Gee whiz, that's clever.
Since I seem to be one of the ones that people think will shoot anyone anywhere let me further explain myself.
In the great state of NC we have some rather schizophrenic SD laws. You may use deadly force to prevent entry to your home. Hence my post earlier saying you can legally shoot someone coming through your window. Would I shoot first and ask questions later in that situation even though legally justified? I can't necessarily say yes or no, it would depend on the circumstances at the time.
Once the individual is in your home here in NC, you have to have a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily harm to use deadly force. Now when I say use deadly force that includes simply pointing a gun at someone. So if I see a person in my living room and they have a gun in their hand deadly force is then justifiable. Now do I say "Stop right there" or do I shoot? Again circumstances will dictate, but at that point I would reasonably consider that person a threat and my thinking is don't wait for him to shoot or to raise his weapon to shoot. The presence of the weapon itself is enough of a threat to my life and family thanks.
The person is in my living room taking my plasma TV off the wall and no weapon is present, I can't even point my gun at him in the first place. That would be an unjustifiable use of deadly force, and as I said above I'd have some 'splaining to do. So I have the gun in my hand pointed at the floor and say, " get the hell out of my house, the cops are on the way." He runs out the door, TV in hand, all is well I have homeowners insurance for that. He drops the TV and grabs for a gun, then we're back to the above situation.
The point I've been trying to make is this, deadly force is more than just shooting at someone. Pointing a gun at someone is deadly force. I have to have justification even to do that. I see a gun in someone's hand the justification is there. At that point he's threat enough. I can't say what I would say at that point if anything. I don't legally have to say anything.
If he for some reason dropped his weapon and capitulated without shots fired and he's near the door, fine, leave. Get away from my family. If I am between him and the exit then it's prone out on the floor hands away from the body.
If he's in a hallway, as BillCA noted above, where out to the side doesn't work I would think stretched straight out would be better.
One thing for sure I ain't getting within grappling distance with him. That's asking for a struggle over a gun and not a tactically smart thing to do. Keep distance, keep him covered, get the police there to do the police work. They've got cuffs and backup for this purpose.
Can you use cuffs? Now I know as myself I would handcuff the suspect if at all possible..after all, if he was in my house, that would be breaking and entering..right?
In most jurisdictions in the United States, burglary is a felony and involves trespassing, entering a building or automobile, or remaining unlawfully with intent to commit any felony, not necessarily a theft -- for example, vandalism. Thus, a conviction for burglary may qualify as a conviction under a three strikes law or habitual criminal statute. Even if nothing is stolen in a burglary, the act is a statutory offense. Some burglars have rape as an objective, so the crime of burglary is not exclusively a property crime. Burglary may be an essential element in such a crime as arson, kidnapping, identity theft, or violation of civil rights; indeed the "plumbers" of the Watergate scandal were technically burglars. As with all legal definitions in the U.S., the foregoing description may not be applicable in every jurisdiction since there are 51 separate criminal codes in force.
Aggravated burglary
Under s10, a burglary becomes aggravated when a burglar has with him at the time a weapon of offence ( i.e could be a rag to tie up a security guard ), imitation firearm, firearm or explosive (W.I.F.E). (There is no requirement that any of these items are used in the commission of the offence; merely that they are in the possession of the burglar at the time.) Aggravated burglary is an indictable only offence, and carries a maximum of life imprisonment.
[edit] Time
The defendant must have the firearm, weapon, or explosive at the time of the burglary, namely:
s9(1)(a) when entering;
s9(1)(b) when committing the theft, attempted theft, GBH or attempted GBH.
In most jurisdictions in the United States, burglary is a felony and involves trespassing, entering a building or automobile, or remaining unlawfully with intent to commit any felony, not necessarily a theft -- for example, vandalism. Thus, a conviction for burglary may qualify as a conviction under a three strikes law or habitual criminal statute. Even if nothing is stolen in a burglary, the act is a statutory offense. Some burglars have rape as an objective, so the crime of burglary is not exclusively a property crime. Burglary may be an essential element in such a crime as arson, kidnapping, identity theft, or violation of civil rights; indeed the "plumbers" of the Watergate scandal were technically burglars. As with all legal definitions in the U.S., the foregoing description may not be applicable in every jurisdiction since there are 51 separate criminal codes in force.
Aggravated burglary
Under s10, a burglary becomes aggravated when a burglar has with him at the time a weapon of offence ( i.e could be a rag to tie up a security guard ), imitation firearm, firearm or explosive (W.I.F.E). (There is no requirement that any of these items are used in the commission of the offence; merely that they are in the possession of the burglar at the time.) Aggravated burglary is an indictable only offence, and carries a maximum of life imprisonment.
[edit] Time
The defendant must have the firearm, weapon, or explosive at the time of the burglary, namely:
s9(1)(a) when entering;
s9(1)(b) when committing the theft, attempted theft, GBH or attempted GBH.
How about this question,
if they break in your house, take your tv, you dont shoot them, they run out the door. They know, even tho you have a handgun you wont shoot them..who's to say they wont come back and rob you again????
I know I want to either get them arrested, hopes they have a warrant, are wanted for murder or something, and will be locked up for awhile. Or if I shoot them, well I'll shoot them dead so no need to worry about them comming back for revenge!!
also what if they are in a room, and you're at the exit, and they cant leave..well if they charge you (to leave, or hurt you, who knows!), bang bang! Or police show up and arrest them!
if they break in your house, take your tv, you dont shoot them, they run out the door. They know, even tho you have a handgun you wont shoot them..who's to say they wont come back and rob you again????
I know I want to either get them arrested, hopes they have a warrant, are wanted for murder or something, and will be locked up for awhile. Or if I shoot them, well I'll shoot them dead so no need to worry about them comming back for revenge!!
also what if they are in a room, and you're at the exit, and they cant leave..well if they charge you (to leave, or hurt you, who knows!), bang bang! Or police show up and arrest them!
Silentarmy
New member
Sincerely
My apologies. Sometimes I forget that many of the members of this forum may not be LEO or Vet. I mistake many yrs of training for common sense and that is where I have gone wrong here. I recognize difference of opinion as a right that each of us has and to force mine upon others is usually not to their benefit or mine. I will try not to be so argumentative in my future posts.
My apologies. Sometimes I forget that many of the members of this forum may not be LEO or Vet. I mistake many yrs of training for common sense and that is where I have gone wrong here. I recognize difference of opinion as a right that each of us has and to force mine upon others is usually not to their benefit or mine. I will try not to be so argumentative in my future posts.
Thunderhawk88
Moderator
First off, if a burglar broke into my house he must be stone deaf. My two dogs would raise so much hell, they'd wake the dead. Secondly, all my doors are secured most of the time (except for when we are working outside), so in order for that "neighborhood teenager" or "local drunk" to be in my home they'd have had to break in.
That being said, anyone in my home uninvited is hostile, and will have only one chance to comply to any command given.
That being said, anyone in my home uninvited is hostile, and will have only one chance to comply to any command given.
Silentarmy
New member
MyXD
No longer LEO. I let my Cert expire. I am a Private contractor as an LEO salary in my state would not make my truck payment, much less buy my toys!
Experience is my teacher. I did not come here to teach (what a thankless job that would be) Just looking to learn a little and answer what questions I do know the correct answers to. I graduated from my Academy class 3rd academic and top Physical in my class. I know the laws in Utah well and I train hard to this day to maintain what I learned from LE and my military service. I have only drawn my weapon on 3 occasions. I do not/did not carry Cuffs when not in uniform and as I said in a previous post, open carry went away here when they caught Billy the kid! (ok it was a few yrs after that)
I do have a hard time listening to lack of common sense and hence my mean posts. I DO know what will get you "Hemmed up" in Utah! and understand that when you become LE, your Agency is NOT obligated to back your actions while off duty. The "hot shot" types from my academy class are still waving vehicles thru a gate for pinkerton or "back" doing same after embarrassing an agency with off on/duty antics.
No longer LEO. I let my Cert expire. I am a Private contractor as an LEO salary in my state would not make my truck payment, much less buy my toys!
Experience is my teacher. I did not come here to teach (what a thankless job that would be) Just looking to learn a little and answer what questions I do know the correct answers to. I graduated from my Academy class 3rd academic and top Physical in my class. I know the laws in Utah well and I train hard to this day to maintain what I learned from LE and my military service. I have only drawn my weapon on 3 occasions. I do not/did not carry Cuffs when not in uniform and as I said in a previous post, open carry went away here when they caught Billy the kid! (ok it was a few yrs after that)
I do have a hard time listening to lack of common sense and hence my mean posts. I DO know what will get you "Hemmed up" in Utah! and understand that when you become LE, your Agency is NOT obligated to back your actions while off duty. The "hot shot" types from my academy class are still waving vehicles thru a gate for pinkerton or "back" doing same after embarrassing an agency with off on/duty antics.Well that's good. I understand fully from where you're comming from. I get highly upset with some posters on this forum who lack common sense. Either way, keep up the good posts 
sounds like you have a lot to offer and I dont know what or how others feel, but I respect and understand your imput
sounds like you have a lot to offer and I dont know what or how others feel, but I respect and understand your imputteriyakisaki
New member
assuming the descision has been made to not shoot....
hand placement, and anything else that would make it difficult for a subject to attack is key, as well as distance. interlaced BEHIND (not on top) the head or up, fully extended, palms towards you. legs crossed and ankles to the ass is best. legs crossed simply will not cut it IMO. a full bend of the knees makes it that much more difficult for a person to get up. sometimes when dealing with a subject, i will sit them with their back against a with their back either against a bare wall, or completely in the open (more than arms or legs reach from anything), with legs crossed and hands in the air or fingers interlaced behind the head. maybe some LEO could chime in on this technique? granted i also have the advantage of backup and LEO on its way.
some things to keep in mind is definately to keep fairly calm and level headed. unless you do it on a regular basis (training doesn't quite count, but it definately helps), its pretty damn hard to stay 100% calm and level headed in this situation. something else that needs to be touched on is speak only when 100% necessary, basically giving commands. do not answer any questions or respond to anything they might say. in conjunction with this, its also a good idea to tell them to keep their mouth shut. there really isn't anything they might say to you that will change your outlook on the situation, not to mention it could just be a simple distraction.
IMO it is not wise to do any sort of pat-down or even handcuffing. leave it to PD to do that. all this will do is bring you waaaay too close to the subject and force you to take your hand off of your weapon. being weaponless or being close is one thing. being both is the worst.
hand placement, and anything else that would make it difficult for a subject to attack is key, as well as distance. interlaced BEHIND (not on top) the head or up, fully extended, palms towards you. legs crossed and ankles to the ass is best. legs crossed simply will not cut it IMO. a full bend of the knees makes it that much more difficult for a person to get up. sometimes when dealing with a subject, i will sit them with their back against a with their back either against a bare wall, or completely in the open (more than arms or legs reach from anything), with legs crossed and hands in the air or fingers interlaced behind the head. maybe some LEO could chime in on this technique? granted i also have the advantage of backup and LEO on its way.
some things to keep in mind is definately to keep fairly calm and level headed. unless you do it on a regular basis (training doesn't quite count, but it definately helps), its pretty damn hard to stay 100% calm and level headed in this situation. something else that needs to be touched on is speak only when 100% necessary, basically giving commands. do not answer any questions or respond to anything they might say. in conjunction with this, its also a good idea to tell them to keep their mouth shut. there really isn't anything they might say to you that will change your outlook on the situation, not to mention it could just be a simple distraction.
IMO it is not wise to do any sort of pat-down or even handcuffing. leave it to PD to do that. all this will do is bring you waaaay too close to the subject and force you to take your hand off of your weapon. being weaponless or being close is one thing. being both is the worst.
NO.
A THOUSAND TIMES, NO.
NEVER attempt to clear a house, building, or other structure alone.
The only exception is if you have to go to the aid of a loved one. PERIOD.
If you attempt this, you run a VERY real risk of being ambushed. I wrote an answer to this in another thread. You do NOT want your last coherent sight in this world to be seeing the person who killed you headed toward your wife or children.
If you hear the bump in the night, call 911. STAY PUT. Arm yourself, and wait.
If you have children, teach them to either stay in their rooms, or if they're close enough to your room, to come to yours. If they're old enough, and responsible enough, consider arming THEM, with explicit instructions to hold fire until they can identify that the person coming into their room is NOT one of you.
Make sure that you call 911 immediately. Identify yourself, tell the dispatcher what is happening, describe everyone in your house that SHOULD be there, and tell them who is armed.
STAY ON THE LINE WITH DISPATCH until responding officers arrive.
If you live in a two story house, and the bedrooms are upstairs, so much the better. Let them run off with everything that is downstairs. It's only property anyway.
Your most precious gifts are the children in their rooms, or the wife or husband beside you. As long as the burglars stay downstairs, LEAVE THEM ALONE.
If you happen to surprise someone in your house, the best thing to tell them when you have them at gunpoint is:
GET OUT! GET OUT NOW!!!
Let them go! Unless you have some else backing you up, and BOTH of you are trained well in detaining a potentially dangerous subject, LET THEM GO.
Folks, trust me: you do NOT ever want to be in a situation where you are going through a darkened house or building, looking for someone who may want to KILL you. It's not fun.
How about if I have a tactical light mounted on my gun so I can sweep the area, blind the intruder and scare him into submission with my scary gun and athoritive voice?
You make great points about avoiding a confrontation at all costs. Call me a wimp but my first instinct it to avoid the BG if I can and if I can't, run. If both of those options fail then the next one is to fully defend myself with my gun or whatever else is handy. It is interesting to read the discussions about when you can legally shoot and when you can't. The way I feel about it is that if I need to shoot then I have exhausted my other options and legalities are not a concern. I will worry about those later, right then it is my life than I am concerned about. I live in a state with the castle doctrine laws but that isn't going to be a major concern when I am pulling the trigger.
You make great points about avoiding a confrontation at all costs. Call me a wimp but my first instinct it to avoid the BG if I can and if I can't, run. If both of those options fail then the next one is to fully defend myself with my gun or whatever else is handy. It is interesting to read the discussions about when you can legally shoot and when you can't. The way I feel about it is that if I need to shoot then I have exhausted my other options and legalities are not a concern. I will worry about those later, right then it is my life than I am concerned about. I live in a state with the castle doctrine laws but that isn't going to be a major concern when I am pulling the trigger.
Powerderman, incase you didn't happen to read any of my other posts, I myself am becoming an LEO. In the hiring process right now as we speak. And growing up, because I come from an LEO family, I was raised/tought to fight for others. So defending myself in these kind of situations like this, is natural to ME. Now the way I do things might/shouldn't be for anyone else, but for me, I feel it's my job. Yeah it's a risk. I've had two guns pointed to my head, and my life threatend. Also been cought in the middle of a shootout between two gangs (didn't have a gun at time, this was back in Jersey outside Camden)
And as far as backup, my wifey knows how to use a gun as I tought her myself. I have quite a few guns, but her gun is an XD sub-compact. That's my backup, and the one who stays on the line with 911.
And I dont know about you..but uhhh I happen to own a lot of nice, EXPENSIVE items throughout my home. Now I dont want anyone to jack my stuff. If someone was to break into my house, it'd be like walking into bestbuy, with no price tags! take what you can carry!
And I'm not going to call 911 everytime I hear a bump in the night. Last night is a perfect example. I heard a bump in the night, around 2:40am. Swear it sounded like it was on my patio, or in the next room to me. Come to find out, it was just the wind that blew the fence peice up against the empty garbage can.
And as far as backup, my wifey knows how to use a gun as I tought her myself. I have quite a few guns, but her gun is an XD sub-compact. That's my backup, and the one who stays on the line with 911.
And I dont know about you..but uhhh I happen to own a lot of nice, EXPENSIVE items throughout my home. Now I dont want anyone to jack my stuff. If someone was to break into my house, it'd be like walking into bestbuy, with no price tags! take what you can carry!
And I'm not going to call 911 everytime I hear a bump in the night. Last night is a perfect example. I heard a bump in the night, around 2:40am. Swear it sounded like it was on my patio, or in the next room to me. Come to find out, it was just the wind that blew the fence peice up against the empty garbage can.
rantingredneck
New member
Just curious, what's your state law say about use of deadly force to protect property?