Colt Python, what's the appeal?

Pythons were basically 'hand made". Not because Colt wanted it that way but their tooling was too old to hold tight tolerances and their labor union contracts made it hopeless to modernize so the revolver prices just got out of sight. That's what eventually drove then out of the revolver business but increasing costs - and excellant smoothness - did have a "mystique" value for a time, at least for those susceptable to such things.

I'd never swap my very smooth, very accurate, very beautiful 1962 S&W M26/6" for any two Colts.
 
Pythons were basically 'hand made". Not because Colt wanted it that way but their tooling was too old to hold tight tolerances

Also incorrect.
The old Colt action was originally designed in the 1890's and was a relic of another century.
It was complex, and had tiny working surfaces., like all preceding Colt double action revolvers from the Model 1877 to the New Army & Navy models of the 1890's.
In fact, the Python type action was simpler, stronger, and less complex then the earlier double action designs.

All the internal parts were made of forged steel and were deliberately made over sized in key areas so the parts could be hand fitted during installation.
A Master fitter would stone and file and in some cases BEND parts to get them fitted and operating correctly.
Due to the design of the action, it's just not possible to make most of those parts to closer specs because the action design mandates extensive hand fitting and adjusting.

Colt's machinery was old, but it was of a type that was more then capable of making very close spec parts. It was the design itself that limited the use of "machine fitted" parts.
Colt was the first revolver maker to offer a true machine fitted revolver in the Colt Mark III of 1969.
Unlike the older Colt action, the Mark III was designed to allow a less skilled worker to assemble a revolver by just pulling a part from a bin and test fitting it. If it didn't fit, another part was pulled and test fitted until one did fit and function.

So, it wasn't bad machinery that caused the Python to have to be hand fitted, it was mandated by the design itself.
 
Thanks ''dfaris", you know your stuff; COLT PYTHON 8 in Nickle . Deluxe Trigger job.``````````I've out shot everything and everybody using their comparable .357 against me and my pretty pony gun; they had no chance.
 
Hi Dfariswheel,

You may be right, you seem to have far greater knowledge of Colts than I. However, when I called Colt about 5 years ago, they told me they no longer worked on Officers models. I asked about purchasing a replacement "hand" and they told me none were available for sale.

I guess I jumped to the conclsion they no longer worked on Pythons and there were no parts available. Again, I assumed if there no parts available for the Officers model, there were no Python parts available as the lock work is identical.

Also, I am sure there are good gun smiths that can work on Colt revolvers, but they are not nearly so commmon as as good gun smiths that can work on S&W and Ruger. Also, after my experiance with Cylinder & Slide makes me believe that all the really good Colt gun smiths have log waiting lists and charge premium prices for their services.

Sorry I got it wrong.

Jerry
 
Not because Colt wanted it that way but their tooling was too old to hold tight tolerances and their labor union contracts made it hopeless to modernize so the revolver prices just got out of sight. That's what eventually drove then out of the revolver business

This gets tossed around time and time again and its simply not true. People still buy Ed Brown 1911s, BMWs Coach Purses, Perazzi shotguns etc because when something is, "top of the line" or close to it, there will always be a market for it. If the Python was actually what people called it, it would still be in production as a deluxe hand fitted custom built incredibly awesome revolver. The truth is, is that it did not meet buyers expectations in relation to the higher cost. In other words, S&W would give you something comparable for less money. So their production, the hand fitting, and etc was an issue, it was that COUPLED with the fact that Pythons were not viewed at the time the way people "remember" them today. How ironic that a gun that people will pay $1500 for today, without blinking an eye, could go out of production? They simply were not worth to the consumer their higher cost compared to the competition and IMO they are not what people refer to them as today. Now that said, I do want another one.

It was not that the design was like a Duesenberg in a revolver, which costs so much, because it was so great, that the average American could not afford the gun. That thought is a total logical fallacy. Basically, Colt could not match up their asking price, with the expected quality at that price.


Again, I assumed if there no parts available for the Officers model, there were no Python parts available as the lock work is identical.

While this makes some sense, remember too that the Officers Model is a pre WWII gun while the Python is post WWII, coming out in 1955. The post war Officers Model variants were the Officers Model Special, followed by the Officers Model Match.
 
I thought Colt dropped Pythons and other models to focus on extremely lucrative government contracts. It's been years and I don't recall the details. Can anyone back me on that?

Most guns are more accurate than people are able to shoot. I'm sure some folks hoped a great gun would make them magically shoot bullseyes every time and were disapointed when that didn't happen. That's not a reflection on the quality of a gun, but their aptitude at the time. In my travels, It's better than 10 to 1 people who admire and appreciate Pythons than those that are critical of them. I'm so convinced they are superb guns that I tend to think someone is off their rocker if they didn't agree. I'd say the same about a 27-2 BTW.
 
I thought Colt dropped Pythons and other models to focus on extremely lucrative government contracts. It's been years and I don't recall the details. Can anyone back me on that?

Absolutely not. The government contracts were a better source of income for them because their commercial guns were not as profitable. In other words, their DA guns were not generating the revenue as before. Because they were not as profitable as before, they switched to making other things so that they could remain. They did not just quit DAs to make government stuff because they thought it was a better idea, it was because they had to. Had they continued making DAs, they would have went out of business, possibly forever. They chose to survive.

It's better than 10 to 1 people who admire and appreciate Pythons than those that are critical of them. I'm so convinced they are superb guns that I tend to think someone is off their rocker if they didn't agree. I'd say the same about a 27-2 BTW.

Better than 10 to 1 of what kind of a person? The people who don't own one, believe what Uncle Billy said, or read things on an internet forum and form their opinions based on that? Some people know this stuff better than 10 people, so really, the majority opinion means little. I don't form my opinions based on what other people think. My opinion stems from what I think based on data collected. I don't base anything I say or do on a majority opinion. If you have little to compare a Python to, or you shoot little, or you rarely handle/shoot them, of course a Python is King of the Hill. However, its not what its cracked up to be. The people who tell the ugly truth about Pythons are usually people who are well versed in revolvers, have owned Pythons and do own many revolvers. Many people who think the Python is the pinnacle are the less experienced with guns or revolvers.

When you say that a 27-2 is also a great gun, that makes me question your statement(s) since I take it you are not super familiar with 27s. The 27-2 is a Bangor Punta era 27, that was pinned and recessed, but was not as well regarded as the earlier 4 and 5 screw and pre war 357s. In many people's opinion, the Bangor Punta guns were a step below the earlier S&Ws. I can say that S&W certainly cheapened their stuff in that era, but was it just as good? To some yes, to others no. So for you to say a 27-2 is so great, to me says you're not super familiar with S&Ws. I wonder if anyone would take a 27-2 over an earlier 27 or variant? Maybe you can explain why the 27-2 is better? I gather that perhaps you appreciate the 27-2 because its 10 to 1 the people that do.
 
I thought Colt dropped Pythons and other models to focus on extremely lucrative government contracts. It's been years and I don't recall the details. Can anyone back me on that?

You also forget / don't know that they when they had their biggest contracts, for the 1911, 1911A1 and the M16s, they were making a ton of civilian guns at the same time. It was only when they had been struggling for some time, did they change their focus, out of a necessity not a true choice.
 
You seemed to have been offended Win 73. That was not my intent. Relax fellow gun nut. I'll just say this, I have more Colts than S&Ws. I have been shooting since 1972 and based everything I said on personal experience. This experience includes range time, reading (not counting forums), collecting handguns, and conversations with fellow shooters. I have shot a 27-2 several times and admired it a great deal. My co-worker owns it. That's why I mentioned it. Through practice, I became an excellent marksmen many years ago and still am. Yes at least 10 to 1 in my travels, regard the Python highly. Now you know a bit more of my "travels".
 
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Yes at least 10 to 1 in my travels, regard the Python highly. Now you know a bit more of my "travels". No changes or apologies here.

I'm not offended. I just don't agree and I think bringing up the majority opinion is irrelevant. Most gun owners are ignorant about firearms. I would say its about 10 to 1 on people who don't impress me with their knowledge of firearms. So for you to say the majority opinion of the Python is very favorable, supports my assertion that the majority is ignorant. The majority is not always right and is often not. If it wasn't for so many "sheeple" perhaps I'd have a regard for what large groups of people think.

I of course have more S&Ws than Colts but Colts actually are the 2nd biggest feature of my collection in terms of amount of guns. I appreciate both of them, but I don't drink the kool aid that others indulge in.
 
OK Win 73, glad you weren't offended. I agree most shooters aren't as informed as you and I, your opinion is valid. So, heck with 10 to 1, I'll go with this instead. I highly regard Pythons based on my first hand experience. But they are way overpriced IMO.

Regarding the prices, here's some advice to anyone looking for one. Don't pay top dollar without the original grips or box. It cost's at least $300 to replace them. $800-$1200 seems reasonable for a decent one to me but people swing for the fences when selling these days.. If it's advertised as bright stainless, make sure the box says so. You may be buying a home polish job.
 
"They simply were not worth to the consumer their higher cost compared to the competition "

I think they were worth it. My father thought they were worth it. So do other folks I know. Who are you referring to?

The Python was discontinued once the tooling wore out and the skilled craftsmen who built the Pythons retired. It would have been a major expense and undertaking to replace both of them.

" I would say its about 10 to 1 on people who don't impress me with their knowledge of firearms."

And sometimes that "1" doesn't know it all either.

John
 
"They simply were not worth to the consumer their higher cost compared to the competition "

I think they were worth it. My father thought they were worth it. So do other folks I know. Who are you referring to?

The Python was discontinued once the tooling wore out and the skilled craftsmen who built the Pythons retired. It would have been a major expense and undertaking to replace both of them.

" I would say its about 10 to 1 on people who don't impress me with their knowledge of firearms."

And sometimes that "1" doesn't know it all either.

If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand. Your reasoning for the Python discontinuation is worse than the ever popular one from earlier in this thread. They were worth it to you and some people you know, yet they didn't sell well esp at the end and were discontinued. How is it that their superb quality was apparently such a secret to where they had to be discontinued and yet the quality of a luxury automobile, a Rolex watch, or a fine rifle is known, and allows them to sell?

I can appreciate people who say Colt themselves made mistakes that figured into all of this, but the bottom line is that if there was a consumer demand when they were around, they would still be made. Colt couldn't afford to just discontinue one of their most infamous revolvers for any reason other than "hey, we aren't making money anymore on these". The tooling and craftsman are not enough to discontinue such an iconic firearm. Its not like they were making the statue "David" one chip at a time. It was a mass produced revolver. These "master craftsman" you speak of can and do train others, which is how these people are replaced. Its not like only select people could for Colt on a Python, get real. They also didn't make 5 or 10 a year because it was so difficult to make them. Show me some evidence on the tooling be worn out which forced them to discontinue DA revolvers? You really think those were the only two reasons? Since all of their revolvers were so great, how come the tooling was not worth it? Does that make any sense? It makes me laugh that people believe things like that. How do companies like Beretta who make higher end guns, continue to make expensive deluxe models, when the original craftsman who worked for Beretta died over 300 years ago? So a Python is now a work of art? How many times did they buy new "tooling"? They are one of the oldest gunmakers in the world. Are we trying to replace Picasso or Rembrandt here? I think not.

I will say that it is obvious that Colt's management really screwed things up too, but when you have "the Rolls Royce" of revolvers, you would have to have really really bad management for the management itself to screw up such a good thing. It was more than the management, more than the price, more than how they were made, it was rather a combination of factors. Quality items are always worth more money, and they always will sell despite the extra cost. The problem is when a item is priced too high for the quality given.

The reason I personally know things is because I always want to know more, because I always think I don't know enough / there is something more to know. Apparently you think you know enough about Pythons so you can't see the forest through the trees in what I say. Thats fine with me. I'd like to hear how a 60s Python for example beats out a 60s 27 to justify the extra cost. I don't want to hear "my father said so" or "look at how much they sell for". I presented logical criticisms to the consensus opinion on Pythons. No one has had any kind meaningful reply to what I said yet. I wonder if that should tell you something.

Its your money so whatever makes you happy is cool. I'd rather get what I'm paying for unlike others.
 
It's economics. They want to sell X number of product at X profit each. If the profit isn't there they wont build it. For instance Glock probably only makes 400.00 on each pistol but they sell millions of them not thousands.
 
I own both S&W and Colts handguns and have equal admiration of both. The only other brand of handgun I have is a WW 1 Luger.

My S&W revolvers consist mainly of 5 screw and some 4 screw models. As far as Colts go, the oldest is a 1906 SAA in 45 Colt and the newest ones are 3 Pythons and 2 Diamondbacks from the 1970's.

The 3 Pythons are amazing revolvers. After the 1st one, I was hooked. I held the 4" blued Python in my hand and eased the hammer back and swore it was running on ball bearings.. The trigger touches off with a light crisp touch that locks the cylinder in perfect alignment before allowing the hammer to drop propelling the bullet into the tapered rifled bore of the barrel.

I keep them clean and don't run them dry, what's not to like?

Rod

ColtandSW044.jpg
 
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