Colt Python, what's the appeal?
- Thread starter Flakbait
- Start date
If that makes me ignorant or stupid... I'm o.k. with that 
"if you still insist that Python quality was so secret, that they were discontinued because their sales slumped, because apparently no one likes high end luxury items, I was not going to keep explaining that concept to be a farce."
Did you even read what I posted? I think not. If I "insist that Python quality was so secret"? Secret? It was never a secret. Sheesh. Man, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. I grew up listening to men talk about Python quality. Well, I was born a few years before the Python, but I knew about them in elementary school.
To repeat what you've clearly missed, I'm in the camp that believes the tooling wore out and the master gun builders capable of hand fitting parts and hand polishing to Python standards retired, died or left the company. Sure the guns were more expensive than Rugers and Smiths, but people bought them.
John
Did you even read what I posted? I think not. If I "insist that Python quality was so secret"? Secret? It was never a secret. Sheesh. Man, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. I grew up listening to men talk about Python quality. Well, I was born a few years before the Python, but I knew about them in elementary school.
To repeat what you've clearly missed, I'm in the camp that believes the tooling wore out and the master gun builders capable of hand fitting parts and hand polishing to Python standards retired, died or left the company. Sure the guns were more expensive than Rugers and Smiths, but people bought them.
John
Winchester_73
New member
You missed my point. My point was, if you were right, there is NO WAY THEY COULD HAVE BEEN DISCONTINUED. Your reasoning makes no sense at all. You are saying in so many words that the Python quality was not well known enough for them to SELL and be a PROFITABLE model for Colt. And yet, other high quality/high price items sell to those who desire them. Also, if the model was worth making, the people and tooling get replaced. Do you think S&W or Remington have their original tooling? Come on man, think. So apparently, they were not viewed then like they are today. Why would that be? You grew up hearing men talk about pythons? So what? People are talking about them on this forum, it doesn't change the reality of all of this.
Wow, that was almost profound. Now you can back to repeating everything you've always heard about the Python like everyone else in this thread.
So they quit making Rolls Royces decades ago despite them being the best? I didn't know that. If your analogy was accurate, then Pythons would still be made and there would still be demand for them, like the Rolls Royce. Also, what gun company would be Yugo in your analogy? S&W? I hope you are smarter than that.
Well obviously, Dutch. I was talking about whether or not they are actually better shooters than other revolvers. Everyone knows they're more valuable. They are no longer made and there is probably less of them than many other revolvers today. Earlier in the thread, I pointed out how they are good investments.
Dan Wessons are back in production by CZ. A Ruger 3 screw is completely different. Security Sixes are good but common. If you count all of the P&R'd S&Ws, they would out number all of these other guns combined. You probably didn't know, but S&W pinned and recessed all of their 22 and magnum revolvers for decades. On the internet gun forums, all you read is the hype, you don't read anyone say "Maybe the Python really isn't so great". Its a minority opinion I have from my experience in revolvers. It would be nice if someone here could actually support their assertion that the Python is at the top of the food chain instead of saying "look, beautiful blue and vent rib...how cool is that". Colt reeled in a lot of people/money in with that Python look, didn't they?
If you want to believe the hype, or want to justify your purchase in regards to a shooting revolver, go ahead. I only hear good about them from people who only ever owned one, or never owned one, don't own many revolvers, or don't have much experience in revolvers. I've noticed that people who are more well versed in revolvers seem to like them less. The people who brag about them also (judging by this thread) know very little about the history of Colt (1980s esp), why they were discontinued, etc. But hey, after all, its an internet forum, so if you appear ignorant, you are only fitting in I guess.
I like this post. I agree that the Python price / demand and even rep is fueled by their discontinuation. Because of their prices, less and less people are really familiar with them, and so this "myth" gets stronger and stronger. I guess if they quit making Harleys, they would become the best motorcycle of all time! Don't you know, they quit making them because the original factory tooling from 1903 wore out and the last guy who knew how to make them died and so Harley went under! Or maybe they quit the best bike ever so Harley could make stuff for the government. Or maybe they were so nice, that no one could afford to pay the Harley over inflated prices because you know, they are hand fitted and so since they were so expensive, no one bought them, and were discontinued. It could not be for any other reason(s)! They were the best, but for some reason
they are no longer made. How does Rolex, Bentley, and Perazzi stay around? Think about it. People pay more for things that actually are better.
223 shooter
New member
Really?
About all I've read here in this thread is anti-Python."My point was, if you were right, there is NO WAY THEY COULD HAVE BEEN DISCONTINUED. "
But they were. The machinery was worn out and the talented workers were gone.
"You are saying in so many words that the Python quality was not well known enough for them to SELL and be a PROFITABLE model for Colt. "
Like heck I said that. See, there you go again putting words in my mouth that I did not say. The quality was widely known. They couldn't make them any more for the reasons given. I won't get into the whole union thing, etc.
"Your reasoning makes no sense at all. "
I see, I'm stupid and you're smart. You're repeating yourself.
"Also, if the model was worth making, the people and tooling get replaced. "
They didn't have the money for new equipment or training master gunmakers.
" Come on man, think. "
You are a jerk. You've heard that before, right? And not just in this thread.
But they were. The machinery was worn out and the talented workers were gone.
"You are saying in so many words that the Python quality was not well known enough for them to SELL and be a PROFITABLE model for Colt. "
Like heck I said that. See, there you go again putting words in my mouth that I did not say. The quality was widely known. They couldn't make them any more for the reasons given. I won't get into the whole union thing, etc.
"Your reasoning makes no sense at all. "
I see, I'm stupid and you're smart. You're repeating yourself.
"Also, if the model was worth making, the people and tooling get replaced. "
They didn't have the money for new equipment or training master gunmakers.
" Come on man, think. "
You are a jerk. You've heard that before, right? And not just in this thread.
"if the model was worth making, the people and tooling get replaced. "
Since you refuse to face the facts, I'll quote an expert on this, dfariswheel. Note the models that were discontinued before the Python and Anaconda.
"Things came to a head in the late 90's with the bankruptcy so in 2000 Colt dropped all DA revolvers and some other guns except the Python and Anaconda. Colt simply had to make the decision to drop all the revolvers, the .22 auto, and the small .380 and 9mm autos and make what was still selling well, the 1911 autos and the Single Action Army.
In 2003 Colt also dropped the Python and Anaconda."
Since you refuse to face the facts, I'll quote an expert on this, dfariswheel. Note the models that were discontinued before the Python and Anaconda.
"Things came to a head in the late 90's with the bankruptcy so in 2000 Colt dropped all DA revolvers and some other guns except the Python and Anaconda. Colt simply had to make the decision to drop all the revolvers, the .22 auto, and the small .380 and 9mm autos and make what was still selling well, the 1911 autos and the Single Action Army.
In 2003 Colt also dropped the Python and Anaconda."
www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2000/04/16/unmaking-a-gunmaker.html
"Unmaking A Gunmaker
Apr 16, 2000 "
Colt was deep in debt and paying more than $300,000 a month in legal fees. No bank would loan him any more money. Mr. Zilkha needed $4 million quick or Colt would be forced to close its doors. So he put up a million of his own money to build assault rifles and it didn't help.
Read all three pages. It's fascinating history. Retooling and training new hires was out of the question.
Have a nice day.
John
"Unmaking A Gunmaker
Apr 16, 2000 "
Colt was deep in debt and paying more than $300,000 a month in legal fees. No bank would loan him any more money. Mr. Zilkha needed $4 million quick or Colt would be forced to close its doors. So he put up a million of his own money to build assault rifles and it didn't help.
Read all three pages. It's fascinating history. Retooling and training new hires was out of the question.
Have a nice day.
John
overkill0084
New member
This is quite a thread. Ironically, you could drop the Colt Python portion and sub in any number of other guns and it would look much the same. Haters 
_________________, what's the appeal?
Drop in say, Glock and watch the fireworks. High end 1911s, same deal. Revolvers in general. And so forth.
There a lot of "I don't get it" things in the firearms world. I don't "get" 10/22s. And yet I don't drop into 10/22 threads and dump all over them.
If you shoot a serviceable Python and don't come away with at least a little bit of appreciation for the old school craftsmanship that went into it, you should probably stick with plastic pistols.
_________________, what's the appeal?
Drop in say, Glock and watch the fireworks. High end 1911s, same deal. Revolvers in general. And so forth.
There a lot of "I don't get it" things in the firearms world. I don't "get" 10/22s. And yet I don't drop into 10/22 threads and dump all over them.
If you shoot a serviceable Python and don't come away with at least a little bit of appreciation for the old school craftsmanship that went into it, you should probably stick with plastic pistols.
Winchester_73
New member
Johnbt,
We still aren't on the same page. My point is if the Python was what it was said to be or what people say about it today, Colt would have made a different move. If the Python was what it is said to be, they wouldn't have ever considered the end of their production, BUT THEY DID stop producing them. They did it knowing that it was the best move. Kind of funny how they would come to that decision when it was so great? Kind of odd that such a great product would not be produced anymore at all? Because it didn't sell for them? Maybe because they were never what people call them today? Do you get it yet?
Read Dfariswheels quote again, below. I bolded the parts that are important:
I only bolded the portion that you need to re-read. I didn't change anything else. In the early 90s, the economy was doing pretty good, so why wasn't the holy grail of revolvers selling well? It was because the Python never was what it is referred to as today. Its plain and simple. Companies don't quit producing something that is actually the best, or in demand, or profitable, sought after, etc. All of that that we see and hear today came later, after they were no longer made, and stories began being told, after the Pythons were all bought up, because their demand went up. No one could then verify anything they've heard, and so the myth began.
Look, they didn't quit making this great revolver for the reasons you mention. Its because the revolver in question was not that great. We can go round and round all you want, but in the end, no company discontinues a product that sells, that's profitable, that's worth making. The Python couldn't compete with the better designs of its competitors.
As for me being a jerk. Well I've been called that before, like most of us have. But calling someone a jerk on an internet forum says a lot about you, doesn't it?
Analogies are hard for some people, I understand.
This thread does not reflect what is commonly read or spoken of about Pythons. This thread is a bitter pill for some to swallow. Some of this thread actually has been good discussion. A lot of myth and BS in the thread as well.
If you can find one that's worth the asking price, buy it, and shoot it against other well regarded revolvers, and tell me what conclusion you draw. IMO a S&W 27 is just as good if not better than the Python. DWs are great too. Even if a Python to some or to you is better, is it worth double the price of a good S&W 27 as a shooter? Absolutely not. The market value is higher for the Python but that does not mean its actually a better revolver.
I actually like pre war revolvers the best, so I'm not sure who this is aimed at. As for plastic pistols, less than 1% of my collection are plastic pistols. What does that tell you?
We still aren't on the same page. My point is if the Python was what it was said to be or what people say about it today, Colt would have made a different move. If the Python was what it is said to be, they wouldn't have ever considered the end of their production, BUT THEY DID stop producing them. They did it knowing that it was the best move. Kind of funny how they would come to that decision when it was so great? Kind of odd that such a great product would not be produced anymore at all? Because it didn't sell for them? Maybe because they were never what people call them today? Do you get it yet?
Read Dfariswheels quote again, below. I bolded the parts that are important:
I only bolded the portion that you need to re-read. I didn't change anything else. In the early 90s, the economy was doing pretty good, so why wasn't the holy grail of revolvers selling well? It was because the Python never was what it is referred to as today. Its plain and simple. Companies don't quit producing something that is actually the best, or in demand, or profitable, sought after, etc. All of that that we see and hear today came later, after they were no longer made, and stories began being told, after the Pythons were all bought up, because their demand went up. No one could then verify anything they've heard, and so the myth began.
Look, they didn't quit making this great revolver for the reasons you mention. Its because the revolver in question was not that great. We can go round and round all you want, but in the end, no company discontinues a product that sells, that's profitable, that's worth making. The Python couldn't compete with the better designs of its competitors.
As for me being a jerk. Well I've been called that before, like most of us have. But calling someone a jerk on an internet forum says a lot about you, doesn't it?
Analogies are hard for some people, I understand.
This thread does not reflect what is commonly read or spoken of about Pythons. This thread is a bitter pill for some to swallow. Some of this thread actually has been good discussion. A lot of myth and BS in the thread as well.
If you can find one that's worth the asking price, buy it, and shoot it against other well regarded revolvers, and tell me what conclusion you draw. IMO a S&W 27 is just as good if not better than the Python. DWs are great too. Even if a Python to some or to you is better, is it worth double the price of a good S&W 27 as a shooter? Absolutely not. The market value is higher for the Python but that does not mean its actually a better revolver.
I actually like pre war revolvers the best, so I'm not sure who this is aimed at. As for plastic pistols, less than 1% of my collection are plastic pistols. What does that tell you?
duelist1954
New member
I love shooting Pythons and I love looking at Pythons, but I don't love paying for Pythons. I have an early Trooper .357.
Same frame action and sights as the Python... No vented, lugged barrel or wide hammer spur. Cost me about $350 vs $1,500 for a Python. This gun, and my Colt New Service are the best shooting DAs I own. I prefer them to my tuned S&W model 13. And that is saying something because my M13 is a great shooting iron.
I have to be honest, if I ever see a Python for a penny under $1,000, I'm buying it on the spot.
Same frame action and sights as the Python... No vented, lugged barrel or wide hammer spur. Cost me about $350 vs $1,500 for a Python. This gun, and my Colt New Service are the best shooting DAs I own. I prefer them to my tuned S&W model 13. And that is saying something because my M13 is a great shooting iron.
I have to be honest, if I ever see a Python for a penny under $1,000, I'm buying it on the spot.
"My point is if the Python was what it was said to be or what people say about it today, Colt would have made a different move."
Yes, we are on a different page because you are operating in fantasyland and not looking at the facts. I give you facts, with a link to the article, and you talk about what you think they should have done. Go read the Newsweek article again.
Yes, we are on a different page because you are operating in fantasyland and not looking at the facts. I give you facts, with a link to the article, and you talk about what you think they should have done. Go read the Newsweek article again.
Lots of flagships don't survive.
The Winchester model 21.
The Belgian Browning superposed.
The revolver and the double barrel shotgun became obsolete even though they retained their following among the more affluent. But it was the common man that made them favorites in their heyday.
The Winchester model 21.
The Belgian Browning superposed.
The revolver and the double barrel shotgun became obsolete even though they retained their following among the more affluent. But it was the common man that made them favorites in their heyday.
223 shooter
New member
One can easily pay 5 , 10 , 20 grand or more for a Rolex automatic that won't keep time any better than a $100 Seiko quartz. Is the Rolex worth 50 or 100+ times more despite less accurate time keeping? Obviously there is more to the Rolex appeal other than accurate time keeping. I say the same holds true with the Python.
I doubt most Python shooters bought them with the notion that they were the most accurate handguns ever produced. Although one guy competed in our revolver leagues some years ago did use a Python and his did not have any accuracy issues as he beat all of us Smith shooters.
I shoot mostly Smiths including a 27 but have no problem with guy that wants to pay a premium to shoot a Python.
Winchester_73
New member
I don't think you have the ability to comprehend what you read or the ability to draw valid conclusions. Your article discusses Colt's bankruptcy, it does not get into why they discontinued the Python. I'm pointing out that they would not phase the model out for the reasons you said, the cost was too high in relation to how many they could sell, and possibly the profit from each one. HOWEVER, if the gun was as great as people say, this decision would not have been made BECAUSE the demand would have continued and so they would have got the money to replace both the tooling and the people who "knew" how to make them. S&W made all types of revolvers, including deluxe models all through these "turbulent" times where gun companies were being sued, and there was public out cry over guns. If the python was what it is said to be, it could not have been discontinued because even if they were hurting, someone would have backed them. The problem here that you're not seeing, is Colt could not approach any lenders and say "well we make the Python" like Chevrolet could say about the impala or ford the F 150. In those later examples, it was common knowledge that they were good profitable sellers with a demand. Why did the Python demand separate so much from its reputation? Why wouldn't any lenders finance colt to continue making them? Why can't you see this? Why didn't they "save money" by perhaps making only the Python since its so iconic? The reason is simple, because it wouldn't work. However, if Python opinion was universally the same "great premium gun" I believe the tooling would have been replaced. However, because the Python was not worth borrowing the money to produce from Colts end, or from the fiancers end to financially back Colt to produce them, the production ended. You have to wonder WHY the cost of new labor and new tooling was TOO HIGH for Colt? As I said, many other companies replace both routinely, it happens all the time.
Colts way oF making them, Colt themselves, and the Python design contributed to all of this, but still, with such a great product, the events would not and could not have happened this way. This is my opinion, and you have yet to refute it. You THINK they could not afford to replace tooling and the craftsmen, but how do you know they simply didn't choose not to? How do you know the reason was not the gun itself, not the cost? You don't and you can't find out either way.