CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described

You must not know many muslims living in foreign countries such as Morocco or Indonesia. These muslims are very much on the edge, before they used to be pro-al qaeda, now they are shifting decidedly towards anti. Most are neither extremist nor totally anti-violence.

Today to list a few countries, on "our side" in hating terrorists are: Indonesia, Morocco, Turkey, Lebanon.

Morocco for example is on our side in disliking al qaeda because Zarqawi killed their diplomats in Baghdad. One simple mistake like torturing the wrong Moroccan could shift this thinking.
Don't look now, but you just proved my point. Looking at what the Moroccans see, news that we're torturing *any* Moroccans would be enough to push them over the edge. They know something we haven't been told in our 'liberal media': Most of the detainees are innocent.
A former commander of the 320th Military Police Battalion notes in a sworn statement, "It became obvious to me that the majority of our detainees were detained as the result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and were swept up by Coalition Forces as peripheral bystanders during raids. I think perhaps only one in ten security detainees were of any particular intelligence value."
DoD records
The more muslims we piss off in different countries, the more soldiers, funding and equipment the enemy gets. There are about 700-1200 non-Iraqi fighters in Iraq right now, but for every one of them, thousands of dollars comes in from foreign countries.
Either that, or they're attacking elsewhere. Or plotting to attack here. The odds are very slim, but we may be torturing an innocent Moroccan even as I type this.

And by the way how are we supposed to know which ones are the extremist muslim hate mongers?
Good question. That's why we need to go heavier on the intelligence gathering. And why a preemptive attack on Iraq as part of the 'War On Terror(tm) is such a bad idea.

If you're talking about the guys shooting at American soldiers, they are taking care of that problem very very well.
Yeah. About as well as we took care of the VC back in 'Nam.

If you're talking about Iranians, well they're next so bide your time.
I'm sure the Moroccans find that comforting as well.
 
Don't look now, but you just proved my point. Looking at what the Moroccans see, news that we're torturing *any* Moroccans would be enough to push them over the edge. They know something we haven't been told in our 'liberal media': Most of the detainees are innocent.

I hadn't realized we were arguing different points, I'm pretty sure my response was to Darius T. I'm on the fence here, I don't think we should torture loads of people, a couple dozen seems just right, where its easy to control and find out who we are torturing so mistakes don't get made.

Either that, or they're attacking elsewhere. Or plotting to attack here. The odds are very slim, but we may be torturing an innocent Moroccan even as I type this.

Yes perhaps, I'm not quite sure what you're point is. I'm against torturing large quantities of people.

Yeah. About as well as we took care of the VC back in 'Nam.

This is such an ignorant knee jerk response I don't quite know what to say. But you're probably so anti-war in Iraq that telling you that its going very well and is nothing like Vietnam will mean nothing to you. We have lost 2 thousand men and have killed 50,000 of them. There are no jungles to hide in, so they have to hide and fight in cities, which suprisingly enough makes our job easier. They are also alienating more and more of the population with bomb attacks. Morale amongst our men is very high. They know we are winning this war.

Infantry tactics based attacks are getting rarer because they have fewer soldiers now. The more suicide bombings they use the more of the population they will alienate. Its a simple matter of waiting them out in my opinion.

I'm sure the Moroccans find that comforting as well.

Yes well the new president of the US will find some way to make them feel more comfortable, perhaps some terrorist attack that the CIA will find Iranian links to.
 
Torture builds Character... (just look at John McCaine)

imo, these terrorists needs lots and lots of character building
 
eco2.GIF
 
What's your opinion on severe psychological trauma? Y'know, something Chinese water torture-ish or other methods that don't cause permanent physical damage but would seriously screw up their heads.
Pointless. You try to use their own emotions against them. Nobody has emotional attachment to a dripping faucet. ;) You don't want someone to just go nuts. You want them to make themselves nuts for lying to you. It all goes back to my original post. Make the detainee feel compelled to tell the truth by making their own conscience or ego work against them.
 
Cobray,
But you're probably so anti-war in Iraq that telling you that its going very well and is nothing like Vietnam will mean nothing to you.
If you go back and review my other posts on the subject, you will see that I am not anti-war except in the sense that it was foolish to start it. But now that we're in it I am pro-victory. I do not advocate pulling out. In fact, I actually advocate doubling the troop strength there. And not for any abstract reasons like honoring the efforts of our fallen soldiers or bringing freedom to oppressed people either. I want to win this war because losing it will have dire consequences for our own national security down the road.
This situation bears a striking resemblance to Vietnam in all the most important aspects.
-We are fighting a foreign-supported insurgency in the attempt to build a democracy.
-We can't tell the sheep from the goats.
-The opposition resorts to terrorist tactics.
-The local populace has a high antipathy towards us, largely because of our own behavior, but also because of other social factors.
-Our leaders in Washington directly interfere with the war effort for political reasons while becoming more and more insulated from reality.

Iraq essentially *is* Vietnam from a strategic standpoint. Yes, there are differences in scope (Vietnam was bigger in every aspect) and consequence (failing in Iraq will create a direct threat to us), but pretty much the same in terms of how it must be fought.
We learned (well...some of us learned) some very important lessons there that, if heeded, would improve our war effort greatly.
One of those lessons is that we cannot win this war by body count. Another is that the war must be run from the pentagon instead of the white house. The most important IMO is that counterinsurgency is about winning hearts and minds, not killing bad guys.

[edit] But I do like your take on "waiting them out". So long as the terrorists alienate the population faster than we do...[/edit]
 
The solution is obvious

Detainees who do not want to be tortured don't have to be - they can answer the questions asked of them - problem solved:D :D
 
This is probably naive

This is probably naive and I know I don’t understand the big picture
But…”They” woke up on sept 11 and made a decision to go ahead and kill american civilians.
If they don’t like what’s coming there way than they should have decided to stay home that morning.
And if the bleeding hearts don’t want to admit it or not it’s a fact they (the bad guys) will be back if they are not stopped.
And that too is there choice.
Thanks to those who served *SALUTE*
 
Yoshi,
Not naive, exactly....just misguided. You said that 'they' woke up and attacked us and if 'they' don't like the consequences 'they' should have stayed home. This is true so long as you don't confuse 'they' for anyone other than the terrorists. The 'bleeding hearts' don't want to coddle terrorists. Nobody wants to coddle terrorists.
The 'bleeding hearts' want to beat terrorists, they just don't want us to sink to their level in the process. They are protecting America in their own way.
The 'hard right' OTOH is mainly seeking payback. And they are also protecting America in their own way.
 
”They” woke up on sept 11 and made a decision to go ahead and kill american civilians.
"They" have been awake and fighting for the last 1400 years. It's "we" who had to be woken up by 9/11 to see what has been going on all along.
 
GoSlash27 wrote:

This will make the average Muslim rise up against us because it reinforces the notion (which the bad guys are disseminating) that we are willing to torture because they are Muslim Arabs.

No, we don't torture the average muslim. Thats just it. We only use these tactics on captured combatants. These civilian people, who just happen to be of the muslim faith are not stupid. They understand we only nail those who fight against us, and we actually aid the normal citizens. They see this, and most normal citizens understand the deal.....
 
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