CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described

I understand that Uncle Sam has 'outsourced' harsh interrogations to the Egyptians, Saudi's and Eastern Europeans. There Electonic cattle prods and beatings are still regular events.
 
I understand that Uncle Sam has 'outsourced' harsh interrogations to the Egyptians, Saudi's and Eastern Europeans.
Click to expand...
I would rather have us do that so long as it's under more formally strict guidelines.
Just the threat of being handled by the Saudis should be enough to make them sweat. We just can't be the ones performing the actual beatings.
 
Every day that we allow it to be legal to torture prisoners is a day that we are creating more potent enemies, who will torture our boys. This is a mistake. I'm fine with "staying the course," but we need a slight course correction on this issue.
 
Where does it say that foreign combatants and those suspected of being the enemy in a foreign land are afforded American Constitutional rights??
Click to expand...

Those aren't AMERICAN rights. Remember the Declaration of Independence? 'All men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights'.

All men. Not all Americans.

And while maybe the letter of the Constitution does not prohibit the government from torturing, imprisoning, and killing people who are not American, it does not mean it's morally permissible to do that.

Yes, it is perfectly possible that the letter of the Constitution does not prevent Western military personnel from capturing immediate family members of Osama bin Laden and slowly flaying them alive on live TV in order to get him to surrender. It might even be efficient. It still doesn't mean it's moral or proper.

If your logic were correct, then we would also not be able to SHOOT these guys in street skirmishes because we'd be denying them a fair trial...
Click to expand...

Because somehow the fair trial clause prevents an American cop from shooting a criminal who is attacknig him? No law on Earth can prevent you, or a soldier, or anybody else, from shooting at enemy combatants at war time or at anybody endangering your life.
 
Micro

Those aren't AMERICAN rights. Remember the Declaration of Independence? 'All men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights'.
Click to expand...

This is true... but they are held responsible, by their creator, for what they subsequently create of themselves. They have forfeited their inalienable rights by trying to rob me of mine.

BUDS training, Infantry Escape and Evasion, Hell week, Rangers and Special Warfare school and Air Force Survival Training... :eek:

All are just as bad, or in some cases worse, than anything we are doing to the these terrorists... :cool:

Why doesn't anyone stand up and say so in a very public way?? :mad:
 
Harsh? Like cutting heads off with a dull knife?
Click to expand...

My knee jerk response would be to say that this is the kind of thinking that could lose us the war. But then I read that they are only doing it to a dozen people, and then only with consent of a very high up individual.

So at worst we have turned 12 people into terrorists, at best we have saved millions of lives if bin ladens plan to detonate 7 nukes in 7 US cities simultaneously is stopped.

I would have preferred that the torture remains a secret though, it might spur thousands into giving aid to or becoming insurgents.

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/article.php?story=20050818203814985
 
Actually, it's not those 12 we're concerned about. It's the tens of thousands of other terrorists we may have created from that act when they heard about it.

And you have no idea what information they got out of them. The 'multiple nukes' scenario is at best a gross exaggeration considering the fact that they have none.
 
We should have declared war and censored the press.
Click to expand...

I hope that guy was kidding :(



Also, torture has been a part of european and western culture just as long as it's been a part of arab or eastern culture. It's not specific to any religion or region, it's human instinct to want to put people in pain who have caused us pain.

Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever been tortured, been a POW, or taken part in an interrogation?
 
Some of you people have serious issues. THESE PEOPLE HATE US TO NO END ALREADY! They think we are followers of Satan, and the direct opponents of their god! It doesn't matter what we do to them, these extremist will ALWAYS hate us.

You have to know how these people THINK, and what their mindset is. The ONLY thing they respect is POWER and STRENGTH. We are worse than cowards or dogs to them. You will never make these extremists respect us, so they must fear us so badly that even the THOUGHT of American Soldiers makes them soil themselves.

And you call that torture? OH PLEASE! Some of us went through worse than that as kids or in training! Come ON! With the exception of the water board, which they happen to be describing wrong, NONE OF THIS IS TORTURE PEOPLE! Grow up. While making one listen to rap music or stand in one spot for awhile, or made to take a bath might not be overly plesant, it still does not make torture! I'd bet a million dollars to a donut that some of our american convicts in certain supermax prisons around the US wish they got treated so good......you wishy-washy, liberal, bleeding heart, pantywaists make me vomit.....:barf:
 
If torture will make us more enemies, they why haven't they risen up against their own countries? Syria, Iran, Morocco, Pakistain, all the arab lands, all their governments have been using torture for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years, right up to this very day. Or is it only a concern if a non-muslem is interrogating a muslem?
 
"THESE PEOPLE HATE US TO NO END ALREADY!"

With this, I agree.
In fact, I have been trying to explain this same thing to gun owners for many years. Many gun owners think that if we only use certain words, or not use certain words, or do this or that that suddenly, the anti's will realize they had been wrong all these years and we were really nice guys all along.
They hate us. They will never like us. We can't do anything or act in any way that will change this. Our actions might give them more ammunition to use against us, but it isn't going to change the way they feel about us one way or the other. Their minds are made up.
 
They hate us. They will never like us. We can't do anything or act in any way that will change this.
Click to expand...

You ought to reread Long Path's post.

"They" who are already terrorists are one thing...the point is to stop people from believing that we are bigger terrorists than the other guys. When that happens, more of "them" (whoever they are) will have reason to hate us and not help us to catch the committed terrorists.
 
What he said. It is difficult to get the average Muslim 'man on the street' to like us, but not impossible. It is easy to get him to prefer us to the terrorists so long as we don't behave as badly as the terrorists. We want him on our side, not theirs.
 
GoSlash27:

> #1 Torture really does not work. If you torture somebody they will say whatever it is they think you want to hear in order to stop the pain/discomfort/mock execution.
Therefore any information you gain is questionable. Not to mention so out of date as to be tactically useless.

ethical side of the ordeal is much more important than expressed concern #1 of yours. Perhaps immoral, but torture does work. Believe me, if a person who knows what they are doing would get on your case (or anybody else's for that matter) you'd be telling everything you know in 15 minutes - truth, only truth, and nothing but the truth. Make it 10 minutes if there are 2 prisoners interrogated in separate rooms (edit: expl: easier to weed out lies). Pardon me, but hearing that "torture doesn't work" rational makes me chuckle each time I hear it on TV coming from some "I'm cute and therefore I know it all" reporter.
 
GoSlash27 wrote:

It is difficult to get the average Muslim 'man on the street' to like us, but not impossible. It is easy to get him to prefer us to the terrorists so long as we don't behave as badly as the terrorists. We want him on our side, not theirs.
Click to expand...

But its not the 'average muslim man' that we have a problem with. I know many, and all the muslims I know totally hate violence, and hate what these extremists do. The extremist muslim hate-mongers are the ones we are after, and the ones we need to eradicate....by any means necessary. For they will certainly eradicate us......

And I don't see how this will make your average muslim rise up against us. That would be like saying that putting violent murdering criminals in jail here in the US will make joe average rise up because of the way the criminals are treated. IT JUST AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.
 
But its not the 'average muslim man' that we have a problem with. I know many, and all the muslims I know totally hate violence, and hate what these extremists do. The extremist muslim hate-mongers are the ones we are after, and the ones we need to eradicate....by any means necessary. For they will certainly eradicate us......
Click to expand...

I'm with you 100% except for the 'by any means necessary' part because...

And I don't see how this will make your average muslim rise up against us. That would be like saying that putting violent murdering criminals in jail here in the US will make joe average rise up because of the way the criminals are treated. IT JUST AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.
Click to expand...

This will make the average Muslim rise up against us because it reinforces the notion (which the bad guys are disseminating) that we are willing to torture because they are Muslim Arabs. This is a behavior that is not normally condoned here. Your comparison to criminals and average citizens is flawed because the average Muslim on the street doesn't see things the same as you.
Terrorist extremists are made, not born. Every terrorist and insurgent was just an average guy on the street at one point. They didn't fight until they were convinced that they had to.
We seem to be stuck in the mindset that either A) all Muslims are terrorists or B) Terrorists hatch from terrorist eggs on terrorist farms, who then wander the earth leaving a wake of destruction. Both are equally false.
A terrorist is merely an ordinary citizen who has been radicalized to the point of violence. That is why we must not help radicalize them. We must instead marginalize the radicals that already exist while seeking the assistance of the non-radical population. Behavior like this is counterproductive to that end.
 
But its not the 'average muslim man' that we have a problem with. I know many, and all the muslims I know totally hate violence, and hate what these extremists do. The extremist muslim hate-mongers are the ones we are after, and the ones we need to eradicate....by any means necessary. For they will certainly eradicate us......
Click to expand...

You must not know many muslims living in foreign countries such as Morocco or Indonesia. These muslims are very much on the edge, before they used to be pro-al qaeda, now they are shifting decidedly towards anti. Most are neither extremist nor totally anti-violence.

Today to list a few countries, on "our side" in hating terrorists are: Indonesia, Morocco, Turkey, Lebanon.

Morocco for example is on our side in disliking al qaeda because Zarqawi killed their diplomats in Baghdad. One simple mistake like torturing the wrong Moroccan could shift this thinking. The more muslims we piss off in different countries, the more soldiers, funding and equipment the enemy gets. There are about 700-1200 non-Iraqi fighters in Iraq right now, but for every one of them, thousands of dollars comes in from foreign countries.

And by the way how are we supposed to know which ones are the extremist muslim hate mongers?

If you're talking about the guys shooting at American soldiers, they are taking care of that problem very very well.

If you're talking about Iranians, well they're next so bide your time.
 
Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever been tortured, been a POW, or taken part in an interrogation?
Click to expand...
Right over here, conducted *** interrogations last year. Does torture work? No. Successful interrogation stems from rapport between interrogator and detainee, whether positive or negative rapport. Torture does not fall under the umbrella of negative rapport. It only drives a wedge between the interrogator and the detainee, destroying any rapport or trust gained between the two. A different interrogator would have to start over from scratch at building rapport after that. If the second interrogator used all legal options (like the first interrogator would before moving to torture) and then resorted to torture like the first and it didn't work, we have lost. The detainee has been familiarized with our tactics and will not divulge anything of value until his own conscience turns against him, which by then will be on his timetable, not the interrogator's. I prefer to use legal methods to turn his conscience against him on my timetable. If I fail, will it be the end of the world? Not likely. People forget that interrogation is not the only way to collect intelligence.

Do I think methods 1-3 count as torture? No. Physical harassment yes, but torture? No. Would I use methods 1-3? No. I have all kinds of approaches that I can use instead of those which are more effective without resorting to physical contact. Are methods 4 and 5 torture? Quite possibly, depending on how long they are conducted. Method 6? Yes. But, here's the kicker: None of these methods are now effective. Since ABC News has decided to publish them, future detainees will know these tactics are only a mind game, not a serious threat. Now we will have to change tactics to adapt to the new detainee mindset. Thank you ABC, you have made my job even more difficult.

So there, insight from one of TFL's subject matter experts on interrogation. For my opinion on the effects of these interrogation tactics on the success of our mission and our image in the Arab world, see Long Path's post.
 
So there, insight from one of TFL's subject matter experts on interrogation.
Click to expand...

Thank you. :)

What's your opinion on severe psychological trauma? Y'know, something Chinese water torture-ish or other methods that don't cause permanent physical damage but would seriously screw up their heads.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top