Nobody is trying to talk you [not directed at anybody in particular] into carrying in church if it makes you uncomfortable or distracts you. But I'm awfully glad Jeanne Assam was carrying at New Life Church in Colorado back in 2007. OTOH, I'm not sure it would have helped at First Baptist Church in Maryville, IL two years ago.
Church Carry
- Thread starter Mercenary
- Start date
L_Killkenny
New member
No one here is say you shouldn't or can't carry in church as long as your law allows it. But there's a big differnece between need, want and like. Thinkin you're gonna have a panic attack or feeling naked (i.e. NEED) if you can't have a gun in church is nuts.
Now that's bunk right there. The facts are that some areas are safer than other areas, in some cases much safer. By the facts, church is one of the safest places to be. Are you 100% absolutely safe? Never, but at some point you reach a point of diminishing returns. For someone having to work in the seedy parts of town the return on CC is great. For someone shopping in the mall it's less great. For someone getting their mail in rural Iowa it's far less great and yes, for someone going to church you've spilled well over the point of diminishing return in most of the U.S. (Can't say I wouldn't carry if atteding church in South Central).
It's the exact same reason race car drivers wear helmets but daily drivers don't. The danger is not the same every where you go.
LK
I have been in church all my life. I went to a small church in a small town. There were a few times that the church was broken into and things were stolen. never while people were there though.
There was a family there and the wife went crazy. Even had to spend time in a mental hospital. My parents were all good friends with the husband and it got to the point where the wife threatened him and us for being his friend. Nothing ever happened though.
My parents used to be the leaders of the youth group and there was a kid that was a year ahead of me in school. We all kind of befriended him and then things started getting weird. He kept calling and just showing up unannounced at our house. This went on for awhile until on day my parents went home from church and he had broke into our house and then went out and "baptized" himself in our pond. He spent awhile at a mental place too and still 4 years later he still causes problems.
I have seen firsthand that there are crazy people even at church. I never go anywhere without a gun and that includes church.
There was a family there and the wife went crazy. Even had to spend time in a mental hospital. My parents were all good friends with the husband and it got to the point where the wife threatened him and us for being his friend. Nothing ever happened though.
My parents used to be the leaders of the youth group and there was a kid that was a year ahead of me in school. We all kind of befriended him and then things started getting weird. He kept calling and just showing up unannounced at our house. This went on for awhile until on day my parents went home from church and he had broke into our house and then went out and "baptized" himself in our pond. He spent awhile at a mental place too and still 4 years later he still causes problems.
I have seen firsthand that there are crazy people even at church. I never go anywhere without a gun and that includes church.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
L_Killkenny said:
So what? What's the problem with carrying? It's not like it's some huge inconvenience.
Besides, you don't address the real point... most of us, even those who live in dangerous places, will never, ever need our firearms anywhere, church or otherwise. We carry anyway.
And the reason we don't wear helmets is a matter of convenience, not danger. Fact is, driving a vehicle is the single most dangerous thing most of us will ever do. Statistically, we would be far better off to sell all our guns and put roll cages and 5-point harnesses in our cars.
Who does? No body. Not because it's not dangerous but because we don't care. It's not in our sphere of interest.
Most of us carry guns not because we think we're going to need them in church or anywhere else but because we can and we want to.
Me, all my clothes are based around my gun. It's literally harder for me to NOT carry. Why would I do that?
It never occurs to me, "let's see, I'm going to WalMart, should I carry? I'm going to church. Should I carry? I'm going to Applebee's. Should I carry?"
Nope. I'm getting dressed. I put on the gun. Church, Applebee's, work, doesn't matter.
Well , I attend a nationly & world known church & there is a lot of security for the most part.
I am a chl holder , but for now when I attend church services , I trust God , his angels, & and the security security staff for protection during service.
Once in the truck \ car , then it is back on me & God . for protection.
Got hugged the other day & I am sure the lady felt the handle of my handgun [ snubbie ] .
I am a chl holder , but for now when I attend church services , I trust God , his angels, & and the security security staff for protection during service.
Once in the truck \ car , then it is back on me & God .
for protection.Got hugged the other day & I am sure the lady felt the handle of my handgun [ snubbie ] .
L_Killkenny
New member
Actually, for me it is an inconvenience but that inconvenience is one that I'm happy to take on if the location calls for it but not one I'm willing to take on for a million to one shot. I'm definitely not gonna arrange my wardrobe around CC. You say you carry because you want to and I'm cool with that. But far too many of the CC people I see and run into really act as if there life is gonna end any second if they have to go unstrapped. Not may, not might, but will end.
Like I said, carry all you want to. But don't even begin to tell us you need to carry in all locations or even most locations or that all areas are equally unsafe. I carry sometimes, other times have a truck gun, sometimes don't have a gun withing miles. The day I feel naked or leave the house in dread because I don't go heeled is the day I see a shrink and/or move to the hills.
LK
Like I said, carry all you want to. But don't even begin to tell us you need to carry in all locations or even most locations or that all areas are equally unsafe. I carry sometimes, other times have a truck gun, sometimes don't have a gun withing miles. The day I feel naked or leave the house in dread because I don't go heeled is the day I see a shrink and/or move to the hills.
LK
You had me up until the aforementioned. I live in a major urban area where it is (unfortuantely) unsafe "everywhere" I go. Thus I do in fact feel the absolute need to carry at all times.
That being said, I would recommend everyone carry whenever "possible" as my life may depend on your ability to defend myself and family someday (if I am first incapacitated in some way).
However, I am not going to demand in a still free (albeit debatebly) country that all do the same.
-Cheers
My Grandma drove for over 4 decades and never had an accident. When she was 70 she was involved in a crash . For over 40 years you could say she never needed insurance or a seat belt. But when the time came they both helped her immensely. The Amish have for hundreds of years have led peaceful lives never bothering anyone. These people just kept to themselves. Why would anyone ever bother these people. They never had the need to defend themselves and I am sure they never will ( Their personal choice) .On October 2, 2006 Charles Carl Roberts IV took hostages and shoot girls (aged 6–13) killing 5 before turning the gun on himself. And a few others I am sure if you search a little you will find more if you look.
February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men
walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened
fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir
was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14-
year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.
March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe
Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church,
and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several
church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to
capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed
himself, but survived, when his gun jams.
July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire
in a church during a youth performance, killing two people
and injuring seven.
Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five
wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary
school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado
Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a
guard.
May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police
and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a
Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one
police officer.
Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational
Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the
pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.
May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of
Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who
were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was
abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church
pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell,
25, was the shooter.
Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary
Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who
reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend,
later killed himself.
I have read that the majority of CC holders will never need their firearm outside of the shooting range. But they and I do continue to carry where ever we can legally. And why do we do this? The reason is you never know. These that were hurt and killed these shootings I have posted never knew. They did not know someone would come in and harm anyone. I mean they were either a church and in on case a school ( I only chose them because of the type of school ) .
Hatred and insanity knows no boundaries. They do not care where their victims go. And some do care . Some have targeted churches because of the setting. They look at Christians and other religious types as being vulnerable in their places of worship. And some pick places where multiple people gather for whatever reason ( Churches, Restaurants, Schools and other places where numerous people are). And for this reason I will carry where I legally can. I am not saying if it bothers your that you have to. That would be your choice.
February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men
walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened
fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir
was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14-
year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.
March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe
Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church,
and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several
church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to
capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed
himself, but survived, when his gun jams.
July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire
in a church during a youth performance, killing two people
and injuring seven.
Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five
wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary
school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado
Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a
guard.
May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police
and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a
Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one
police officer.
Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational
Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the
pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.
May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of
Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who
were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was
abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church
pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell,
25, was the shooter.
Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary
Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who
reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend,
later killed himself.
I have read that the majority of CC holders will never need their firearm outside of the shooting range. But they and I do continue to carry where ever we can legally. And why do we do this? The reason is you never know. These that were hurt and killed these shootings I have posted never knew. They did not know someone would come in and harm anyone. I mean they were either a church and in on case a school ( I only chose them because of the type of school ) .
Hatred and insanity knows no boundaries. They do not care where their victims go. And some do care . Some have targeted churches because of the setting. They look at Christians and other religious types as being vulnerable in their places of worship. And some pick places where multiple people gather for whatever reason ( Churches, Restaurants, Schools and other places where numerous people are). And for this reason I will carry where I legally can. I am not saying if it bothers your that you have to. That would be your choice.
m&p45acp10+1
New member
I have the permission of the pastor, and board of directors of the church to carry. In a CYA move they signed a writen statement allowing me to carry in the church. It was then noterized by the secretary. All of the deacons, and a few other members have the same signed and noterized document. I keep a copy in the car, and one at home. There is also a copy in the church files.
I could go into a lot of this and that over chruch carry. I will say that my aunt, and cousins survied the shooting rampage at church in Ft. Worth, Tx. The gunman came into a youth service. He shot two people in the parking lot, and came in shooting. Some of the youth members thought it was a skit. It was a terrible scene, and a tragic loss of life. The gunman used the last round on himself.
I could go into a lot of this and that over chruch carry. I will say that my aunt, and cousins survied the shooting rampage at church in Ft. Worth, Tx. The gunman came into a youth service. He shot two people in the parking lot, and came in shooting. Some of the youth members thought it was a skit. It was a terrible scene, and a tragic loss of life. The gunman used the last round on himself.
I live in Wyoming and as I sit here and think of all the folks I go to church I can count just about 1/2 of them that carry at all times. Wyoming is a Constitutional Carry State. If you can legally own a gun here you can carry it here.
Period!
I think of the times I have heard of church shooting and I have to say nearly every one of them was full of unarmed “sheepel” who would surrender their safety, and the safety of their loved ones, because some one else ordered them to. Maybe most were Methodists….I don’t know. Can any one here enlighten me on that?
Jesus said in Luke Chapter 22 “When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
So it was said by Jesus Himself to his followers to buy swords . I can’t think of a higher authority than that.
But if we need man’s authority we have ALL of the founding fathers.
We have the Highest Law of the land (The united States Constitution) SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED means just that. And it doesn’t mean that some nameless face bureaucrat inside the government OR an organized church can override it. Highest law of the land means HIGHEST law of the land.
Anyway, my point is simple; Being an accessory to such crimes can be from ‘anti-gun laws and policy’s’ just as much as it can be from driving a get-away car. It’s shameful that our people can’t see that fact.
We are our brothers keepers. We don’t just carry guns to protect ourselves. We carry to protect our loved ones and our communities.
In my Church we have 7 combat veterans, and 4 Sheriff’s Deputy’s. We also have about ½ of the members who carry all the time. It's common to have a few rifles in the corners too.
Ours would be a very poor choice of churches for criminal to start anything violent.
Such a criminal would probably go to another church where the policy is to make it easy for him to kill them all, with the cooperation of their pastor and his “puppet handlers”.
Period!
I think of the times I have heard of church shooting and I have to say nearly every one of them was full of unarmed “sheepel” who would surrender their safety, and the safety of their loved ones, because some one else ordered them to. Maybe most were Methodists….I don’t know. Can any one here enlighten me on that?
Jesus said in Luke Chapter 22 “When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
So it was said by Jesus Himself to his followers to buy swords . I can’t think of a higher authority than that.
But if we need man’s authority we have ALL of the founding fathers.
We have the Highest Law of the land (The united States Constitution) SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED means just that. And it doesn’t mean that some nameless face bureaucrat inside the government OR an organized church can override it. Highest law of the land means HIGHEST law of the land.
Anyway, my point is simple; Being an accessory to such crimes can be from ‘anti-gun laws and policy’s’ just as much as it can be from driving a get-away car. It’s shameful that our people can’t see that fact.
We are our brothers keepers. We don’t just carry guns to protect ourselves. We carry to protect our loved ones and our communities.
In my Church we have 7 combat veterans, and 4 Sheriff’s Deputy’s. We also have about ½ of the members who carry all the time. It's common to have a few rifles in the corners too.
Ours would be a very poor choice of churches for criminal to start anything violent.
Such a criminal would probably go to another church where the policy is to make it easy for him to kill them all, with the cooperation of their pastor and his “puppet handlers”.
Good point and I like the scriptural reference. I can understand (to a point) the comment someone posted earlier about being Gods will to die in Church . But if that is the case then why carry at all. If you look at it in that way if you were to die at home or in your car then you are not to put up a struggle. Keep your doors unlocked and don't use seat belt. or any other safety device.
I know it's not just Methodists. Presbyterian Church USA is for gun control (the Presbyterian Church of America is not, or at least much less so.) United Church of Christ, "ECLA" Lutherans, Quakers, and I'm guessing the Mennonites and Reformed Jews (no idea about Orthodox) And the Catholics seem to talk at lengths about gun violence but don't actually take a position on gun control -- that might be left up to the individual churches or dioceses.
I read different posts here and there and this could be scary, what I mean is for most states it is off limits and even though I wouldnt worry about that so much but to me there is alot of guys who think this is probably a place they can become a cop for the day and alot would be more of a accident waiting to happen than to deal with a threat from a BG. Most people dont carry from day to day and if they did they dont shoot week to week and even if that happened and something did happen they dont handle things like this on a normal day to day basis or do they really know what could or should be done to keep them from breaking the law and getting their own self into trouble. Theres alot comes along with such instances to be dealt with properly and lawfully than to say, look Im carrying and if something happens Im going to save the day! If I wasnt LEO Id use my weapon ONLY to protect life.. Be careful heros
Aguila Blanca
Staff
The Constitution is a bar against government infringements on personal liberties. The 2nd Amendment does not prevent any owner of private property, even a church (or a whorehouse), from deciding they don't wish to allow guns on their premises. If my church were to post, it would be legal and I would respect it.Wyosmith said:
I would also seek a new church.