Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
Question for those in the medical fields here: Wouldn't a collapsed lung(s) be almost a certainty in this situation?
Cheney shoots hunting partner (multiple threads merged)
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Harley Quinn
Moderator
I'd hunt with the VP in a New York second.
I think the VP is being roasted to much. I have hunted with persons that sent shivers down my spine with the amount of mistakes made.
One of the reasons I have told people on this board who think bird shot at 10 yds can be stopped by levi clothing. Sure.
That it only goes in with the pellet. The foreign body is then the pellet and your clothing and any dirt, leaves or other debris (french for stuff or broken up things)
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This man is in serious condition and it is going to be a very apologetic and stressed out VP making a speech. The country should back off and let it play out without esculating it.
Bloggers suck.
You can bet your bippy he will be getting a big bill, but the man is so wealthy it isn't going to hurt him, basically pocket change, for him, and our total value including the house...
I think the VP is being roasted to much. I have hunted with persons that sent shivers down my spine with the amount of mistakes made.
One of the reasons I have told people on this board who think bird shot at 10 yds can be stopped by levi clothing. Sure.
That it only goes in with the pellet. The foreign body is then the pellet and your clothing and any dirt, leaves or other debris (french for stuff or broken up things) .This man is in serious condition and it is going to be a very apologetic and stressed out VP making a speech. The country should back off and let it play out without esculating it.
Bloggers suck.
You can bet your bippy he will be getting a big bill, but the man is so wealthy it isn't going to hurt him, basically pocket change, for him, and our total value including the house...
Quote/Question: "Exactly how many people were in the hunting party? Everything I read says three. Last night on the news, either NBC or PBS, they stated five."
Dallas Morning News article yesterday said 3 guns on the ground and two others waiting in vehicle. Mrs. Willeford's husband was also said to be on the ranch, but hunting in another pasture.
Quote/Question: "Question for those in the medical fields here: Wouldn't a collapsed lung(s) be almost a certainty in this situation?"
Not in the medical field, but I've cleaned enough game animals to recognize that there is certainly a possibility that pellets could fully penetrate the skin without necessarily puncturing a lung (although quite possible, especially if they don't catch any part of a rib).
Dallas Morning News article yesterday said 3 guns on the ground and two others waiting in vehicle. Mrs. Willeford's husband was also said to be on the ranch, but hunting in another pasture.
Quote/Question: "Question for those in the medical fields here: Wouldn't a collapsed lung(s) be almost a certainty in this situation?"
Not in the medical field, but I've cleaned enough game animals to recognize that there is certainly a possibility that pellets could fully penetrate the skin without necessarily puncturing a lung (although quite possible, especially if they don't catch any part of a rib).
According to today's Washington Post, Mr. Whittington was walking in a dried up pond that was several feet lower than where Mr. Cheney was. In addition, he had the setting sun behind him and the wind was "gusting" enough to make hearing him difficult.
I'd wondered why several of the early reports said Mr. Whittington "stood up" as Mr. Cheney fired. I suppose if he had bent over to pick up a bird he could have been completely out of sight.
Speaking of migrating bullets, also in today's Post: "A case reported in the British journal Heart in 1992 described a 68-year-old man who had a fainting spell because of an abnormal rhythm. An x-ray showed a rifle slug in the chamber of his right ventricle. The man had fought on the Russian front in WWII and been wounded five times, the last in the left side of his neck below the jaw. The bullet, according to the journal, had not been removed, and 48 years later, it had traveled to his heart."
I'd wondered why several of the early reports said Mr. Whittington "stood up" as Mr. Cheney fired. I suppose if he had bent over to pick up a bird he could have been completely out of sight.
Speaking of migrating bullets, also in today's Post: "A case reported in the British journal Heart in 1992 described a 68-year-old man who had a fainting spell because of an abnormal rhythm. An x-ray showed a rifle slug in the chamber of his right ventricle. The man had fought on the Russian front in WWII and been wounded five times, the last in the left side of his neck below the jaw. The bullet, according to the journal, had not been removed, and 48 years later, it had traveled to his heart."
Harley Quinn
Moderator
Cheny has spoken...
The VP has come forth, and like the man he is, took responsibility
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20060215/D8FPOFM06.html
For me there was not a doubt how it would turn out, all the hens in a row will have to eat sand.
More grit in the VP than most. The man is a living legend for good or bad he is a person who does what he feels right.
The situation has occured many times with dogs that will leap at the birds, it is some times a fatal mistake.
I like the idea as to shoot them in the ai(above the brush), but you only will get singles if you wait till they are very high, some know that a lot of them are barely above the brush.
Quail are trickey little birds.
The one that goes to high is usually culled.
I was hunting one time and the instructions were, this is a dog, the dog has a red collar, do not shoot the dog. Pretty simple.
I had a German Shorthair, she was a hunting fool, one time as shots were being fired and confusion was about, we heard her yelp I called her in and it was not shot that got her but a big rattle snake.
We did quick first aid got her to a Vet and she lived, was never the same after being bit, sort of dingy.
I was afraid she might hurt the kids (they were all young and vunerable) she went down the road.
HQ
The VP has come forth, and like the man he is, took responsibility
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20060215/D8FPOFM06.html
For me there was not a doubt how it would turn out, all the hens in a row will have to eat sand.
More grit in the VP than most. The man is a living legend for good or bad he is a person who does what he feels right.
The situation has occured many times with dogs that will leap at the birds, it is some times a fatal mistake.
I like the idea as to shoot them in the ai(above the brush), but you only will get singles if you wait till they are very high, some know that a lot of them are barely above the brush.
Quail are trickey little birds.
The one that goes to high is usually culled.
I was hunting one time and the instructions were, this is a dog, the dog has a red collar, do not shoot the dog. Pretty simple.
I had a German Shorthair, she was a hunting fool, one time as shots were being fired and confusion was about, we heard her yelp I called her in and it was not shot that got her but a big rattle snake.
We did quick first aid got her to a Vet and she lived, was never the same after being bit, sort of dingy.
I was afraid she might hurt the kids (they were all young and vunerable) she went down the road.
HQ
loggerhead
Moderator
Ted Kennedy accepted responsibility for the "lady in the lake" also, a few days later.
Guess that makes him a "man among men" also and all the hens will have to eat sand, right.
Guess that makes him a "man among men" also and all the hens will have to eat sand, right.Harley Quinn
Moderator
Loggerhead, come on no comparison!
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20060215/D8FPPSVO0.html
Latest stuff, from the VP.
You are really stretching your logic, pathetic is my thought.
HQ
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20060215/D8FPPSVO0.html
Latest stuff, from the VP.
You are really stretching your logic, pathetic is my thought.
HQ
garand_shooter
New member
Hard to argue with logic (or lack thereof) like that!
XavierBreath
New member
The fact that the lung did not collapse is the best evidence for the pellet to have migrated there. If the tissue collapsed back on itself behind the pellet as it migrated through the tissue, a collapse of the lung would not happen.
I have to say that I have gained a lot of respect for Dick Cheney, who I served under as Secretary of defense, and who I have never liked, by the way he has manned up to his responsibility in this one.
"You can talk about all of the other conditions that exist at the time but that's the bottom line and - it was not Harry's fault," Cheney said. "You can't blame anybody else. I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend."
It takes a man to stand before a scornful nation and say that without any reservation. Whether you like him or not, you have to admit he has grit.
This is all part of the right-wing conspiracy to run a "secret" administration. We have yet another example of the vice-hitler/satan lying to our Country.
Gee, the poor Washington Press Core. They didn't get the news first. Let's all cry about that! I'm enraged!
And Hillary is "troubled" by all of this. So is Harry Reid. Personally, I am having trouble sleeping at night because I'm troubled, too.
Gimmie a break. This whole uproar by the Washington Press Core is just news guys making news -- for the sake of having a controversy to report. And while the Press Core is at it, the Democrats can pile on, too. Because they are "troubled." :barf:
Yeah, I know. Cheney lied, and his friend almost died. :barf:
Gee, the poor Washington Press Core. They didn't get the news first. Let's all cry about that! I'm enraged!
And Hillary is "troubled" by all of this. So is Harry Reid. Personally, I am having trouble sleeping at night because I'm troubled, too.
Gimmie a break. This whole uproar by the Washington Press Core is just news guys making news -- for the sake of having a controversy to report. And while the Press Core is at it, the Democrats can pile on, too. Because they are "troubled." :barf:
Yeah, I know. Cheney lied, and his friend almost died. :barf:
Shot Size?
On a radio news report, the word was that he was hit with 5mm shot size. We all know that is ridiculous. That size shot would have caused very serious injuries. However, I am wondering if they were told that the VP was using 5 shot and then mistakenly asumed it meant millimeters. Five shot starts to get into a size that can start causing some deeper penetration then "normal" quail loads.
Even though this was an accident, it reminds me of a poem I read some time back. I am sure that most of you have seen it as part of a Ruger add campaign. It was about a father's advice to his son. I don't remember the words except for the last lines.
It was something about that all the pheasants ever bred won't repay for one man dead.
On a radio news report, the word was that he was hit with 5mm shot size. We all know that is ridiculous. That size shot would have caused very serious injuries. However, I am wondering if they were told that the VP was using 5 shot and then mistakenly asumed it meant millimeters. Five shot starts to get into a size that can start causing some deeper penetration then "normal" quail loads.
Even though this was an accident, it reminds me of a poem I read some time back. I am sure that most of you have seen it as part of a Ruger add campaign. It was about a father's advice to his son. I don't remember the words except for the last lines.
It was something about that all the pheasants ever bred won't repay for one man dead.
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Harley Quinn
Moderator
7.5 shot, not 5 shot for quail
Another booboo by some numbskull who is running off at the mouth for money.
Yellow sheet is the correct term for the newpapers, to bad. Hearst still owns quite a few of them.
HQ
Another booboo by some numbskull who is running off at the mouth for money.
Yellow sheet is the correct term for the newpapers, to bad. Hearst still owns quite a few of them.
HQ
Alibies
I see that the VP has taken full responsibility for the accident. I also see some folks here are trying to minimize this accident. I agree that there is no use in harping on it too much. But, do you think that being too forgiving helps hunters.
It was an accident. However, mistakes were made. I think that if we acknowlegde them, we come across as more responsible hunters.
I see that the VP has taken full responsibility for the accident. I also see some folks here are trying to minimize this accident. I agree that there is no use in harping on it too much. But, do you think that being too forgiving helps hunters.
It was an accident. However, mistakes were made. I think that if we acknowlegde them, we come across as more responsible hunters.
There are still questions I have about this incident. Why did the sheriff who showed up an hour or so after the incident get TURNED away? Could alcohol have been involved and Cheney wanted to let it leave his system? Maybe a far thought, but then again, if any of us were in the VPs position, would we have been able to turn away the sheriff? I would like to see you try. Even the owner of the ranch has said that alcohol was available at some point during the day. Why was it available at all? I've always been taught, and firmly believe, that alcohol and guns do not mix, even if it is just a beer with lunch. I believe that it was an accident, but far far more details need to come out for me to believe Cheney's version of events. After all, this administration isn't exactly known for it's openess.
DonR101395
New member
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Apparently those in charge on the other side are not as well. So why all the hoopla now and nary a mention of it before when it wasn't a hated member of the administration? Gee, I think I just answered my own question.
Democratic Senate leader take three days to notify press of stroke.
22-rimfire
New member
I never said anything about the Dems, because they are not at issue here. And just because someone criticizes the Bush administration does not make them a God-Hating Liberal. And people paying attention know that even some Conservatives are criticizing the actions of this administration. What is also amuzing is that Republicans are supposed to be the party of self-responsibility, yet whenever Republicans are criticized they say "Well a Democrat did this, and a Democrat did that." So what? Look at the shape of todays Democratic Party. One more defeat and they will crack at the seams, they are nearly powerless and pretty much worthless, as a party. Republicans need to practice what they preach, instead of lowering themselves to the same kind of unproductive insults the Dems go to too often. The simple truth is that this administration, like every administration in history, deserves some criticizm.
So Cheney admits to having "a beer" at lunch. A beer? Hmmmm. I believe that about as much as I believed Clinton not having sex with Ms. Lewinski. Most likely it was more than one.
(Rant over)
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