"Cheap" over and unders
- Thread starter rc
- Start date
Bitttorrent wrote ...or asked ...
" What is real use for over under. 2 shot heavy and expensive. For trap sheet? "...
You were asking good general questions - and by a double barrel, I'm assuming you mean a Side by Side...and I don't know which mfg you were asking about ...but yes, there are a lot of them on the market. Like in this discussion about cheaper O/U's - there is some real junk out there in the lower level SXS's .../ both SXS's and O/U's are not cheap to manufacture...especially SXS's ...
But in terms of an O/U ...
a. Usage...for myself - an O/U is the preferred platform I shoot for upland bird hunting, even some duck hunting, Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays.
In today's O/U's you have 2 barrels / so you can screw in different chokes for most any application. You don't have "feeding" issues on an O/U ...if you can get the shell into the chambers, chances are it'll fire ( vs pump, semi-autos ). The stacked barrels mean your sight picture doesn't change whether you fire the Over or Under barrels vs ( SXS - its very different ). With the single trigger - most of us prefer - reset is easy and firing the 2nd barrel vs the older double triggers still used in some SXS's.
b. are they heavy ...not really. My Browning Citori O/U's with 30" barrels are right at 8 lbs ...and overall length is the same as a pump or semi-auto with 28" barrel ( receiver area is shorter on an O/U ). Balance on a good gun is somewhere between your hands ...so to me, its no issue.
c. expensive ...no, not to me, but that's a relative issue depending on what your budget is. Today, you can get very solid guns from Browning and Beretta in their O/U's from $ 1,500 - $ 4,000 ...and going up in price, isn't just about fancy wood - and picking a gun isn't just about price / its about what stock dimensions fit you - drop at comb, drop at heel, length of pull, etc - or do you need a parallel comb gun to fit the best.
Not that a pump gun, semi-auto or SXS isn't a good platform ...they are ...and I have pumps and semi-autos / but the SXS's tend to be fitted with very short stocks, a lot of drop at comb, with small grip areas ....and they just don't fit me, unless I want to spend $2,500 or more on a custom stock ...and coupled with the issue of a very different sight picture when I shoot the right barrel vs the left barrel on a crossing bird from left to right ..I don't find the SXS - for me - to be a practical platform.
If cost is your number one factor in picking a shotgun platform ...its my opinion ...that the best long term choice in a gun is ..
a. budget around $ 500 - a good pump gun (Browning BPS, 870 Wingmaster, etc)
b. budget around $1,000 - up to $2,000 lots of semi-autos Beretta, Browning, Remington, Benelli, etc ...
c. budget $ 1,500 - $ 5,000 / Browning or Beretta Over Unders ...in lots of configurations ... There are lots of options in 20ga and 28ga O/U's in the 7.25 lb range as well ...light and easy to carry / great upland bird guns.
d. budget $5,000 - $ 10,000 / Perazzi and Blaser Over Unders...
e. over $10,000 - $ 35,000 / Kolar and Krieghoff Over Unders...( and Krieghoff makes a very nice SXS as well )...
The over $5,000 price range gets you into specialized guns ...and some fine craftmanship, and engraving, and fancy upgraded wood, etc - and while I think both Browning and Beretta make some fine guns ..this price range elevates it to a new level / that most of us will never need !.....but want is another issue.
But no, Over Unders are not just heavy and expensive ..and for Trap and Skeet.
" What is real use for over under. 2 shot heavy and expensive. For trap sheet? "...
You were asking good general questions - and by a double barrel, I'm assuming you mean a Side by Side...and I don't know which mfg you were asking about ...but yes, there are a lot of them on the market. Like in this discussion about cheaper O/U's - there is some real junk out there in the lower level SXS's .../ both SXS's and O/U's are not cheap to manufacture...especially SXS's ...
But in terms of an O/U ...
a. Usage...for myself - an O/U is the preferred platform I shoot for upland bird hunting, even some duck hunting, Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays.
In today's O/U's you have 2 barrels / so you can screw in different chokes for most any application. You don't have "feeding" issues on an O/U ...if you can get the shell into the chambers, chances are it'll fire ( vs pump, semi-autos ). The stacked barrels mean your sight picture doesn't change whether you fire the Over or Under barrels vs ( SXS - its very different ). With the single trigger - most of us prefer - reset is easy and firing the 2nd barrel vs the older double triggers still used in some SXS's.
b. are they heavy ...not really. My Browning Citori O/U's with 30" barrels are right at 8 lbs ...and overall length is the same as a pump or semi-auto with 28" barrel ( receiver area is shorter on an O/U ). Balance on a good gun is somewhere between your hands ...so to me, its no issue.
c. expensive ...no, not to me, but that's a relative issue depending on what your budget is. Today, you can get very solid guns from Browning and Beretta in their O/U's from $ 1,500 - $ 4,000 ...and going up in price, isn't just about fancy wood - and picking a gun isn't just about price / its about what stock dimensions fit you - drop at comb, drop at heel, length of pull, etc - or do you need a parallel comb gun to fit the best.
Not that a pump gun, semi-auto or SXS isn't a good platform ...they are ...and I have pumps and semi-autos / but the SXS's tend to be fitted with very short stocks, a lot of drop at comb, with small grip areas ....and they just don't fit me, unless I want to spend $2,500 or more on a custom stock ...and coupled with the issue of a very different sight picture when I shoot the right barrel vs the left barrel on a crossing bird from left to right ..I don't find the SXS - for me - to be a practical platform.
If cost is your number one factor in picking a shotgun platform ...its my opinion ...that the best long term choice in a gun is ..
a. budget around $ 500 - a good pump gun (Browning BPS, 870 Wingmaster, etc)
b. budget around $1,000 - up to $2,000 lots of semi-autos Beretta, Browning, Remington, Benelli, etc ...
c. budget $ 1,500 - $ 5,000 / Browning or Beretta Over Unders ...in lots of configurations ... There are lots of options in 20ga and 28ga O/U's in the 7.25 lb range as well ...light and easy to carry / great upland bird guns.
d. budget $5,000 - $ 10,000 / Perazzi and Blaser Over Unders...
e. over $10,000 - $ 35,000 / Kolar and Krieghoff Over Unders...( and Krieghoff makes a very nice SXS as well )...
The over $5,000 price range gets you into specialized guns ...and some fine craftmanship, and engraving, and fancy upgraded wood, etc - and while I think both Browning and Beretta make some fine guns ..this price range elevates it to a new level / that most of us will never need !.....but want is another issue.
But no, Over Unders are not just heavy and expensive ..and for Trap and Skeet.
oneounceload
Moderator
SxS = 2 shots and well-made are VERY expensive
O/U and SxS can be used for hunting, clay games, or anything else
Good looks are a nice feature, but reliability, IMO, is a more important one
bitttorrrent
New member
Thanks BigJim for excellent post. I think you must know a thing or too with that post count!
Yes, I am a novice to shotguns and was just trying to understand. I looked on a few sights and your price structure list looks to be what I found. I was thinking of just getting a Mossberg pump 500, but they felt a little cheap and many have jazzed them all up and then they sit in a closet.
So, I was thinking of SxS more as a quality piece then for just swat team performance characteristics which I would probably never need. Then I came to the O/U and was just curios as too its popularity vs. the SxS.
But I think you are right, the SxS's do have a shorter stock and I will test this out this weekend. I am trying a Remington 1100 and an unknown older SxS. The weekend before I had out a new Circuit Judge with the .45lc and .410 which is a smooth shooting and accurate gun.
Depending on what I like after shooting, I may get a nice semi-auto and an O/U. I don't want 15 shotguns - just a few.
I'll give my range report when I am back.
Yes, I am a novice to shotguns and was just trying to understand. I looked on a few sights and your price structure list looks to be what I found. I was thinking of just getting a Mossberg pump 500, but they felt a little cheap and many have jazzed them all up and then they sit in a closet.
So, I was thinking of SxS more as a quality piece then for just swat team performance characteristics which I would probably never need. Then I came to the O/U and was just curios as too its popularity vs. the SxS.
But I think you are right, the SxS's do have a shorter stock and I will test this out this weekend. I am trying a Remington 1100 and an unknown older SxS. The weekend before I had out a new Circuit Judge with the .45lc and .410 which is a smooth shooting and accurate gun.
Depending on what I like after shooting, I may get a nice semi-auto and an O/U. I don't want 15 shotguns - just a few.
I'll give my range report when I am back.
troy_mclure
New member
i have a 35 year old stevens/springfield sxs(5100). my dad used it for duck for a good 5 years till he cracked one of the barrels(full choke) with steel shot.
it then became a coach gun(18.5" bbl) and was used for home defense and rabbit/quail hunting. it likely has over 5k rounds thru it. the stocks have been replaced, the trigger gaurd was replaced, all due to breakage during hunting.
the gun has never failed to fire, and is very accurate with both barrels matching poi at 20yd.
the only issue i found is that each barrel has unequal thicknesses. my smith checked it out and said its fine to shoot.
i would not hesitate to buy another savage shot gun.
it then became a coach gun(18.5" bbl) and was used for home defense and rabbit/quail hunting. it likely has over 5k rounds thru it. the stocks have been replaced, the trigger gaurd was replaced, all due to breakage during hunting.
the gun has never failed to fire, and is very accurate with both barrels matching poi at 20yd.
the only issue i found is that each barrel has unequal thicknesses. my smith checked it out and said its fine to shoot.
i would not hesitate to buy another savage shot gun.
oneounceload
Moderator
Except Savage does not make shotguns any more
If you are new to shooting OU's and are looking to see if you like them then I have nothing against the cheap ones. I bought a Baikel 20g OU 8-10 years ago and it is still going strong. I was on my way to a quail hunt and learned that 12g's were no longer permitted. I pulled in a pawn shop and bought the Baikel for under $400. It has seen many hours in the dove field but is mostly allocated to "bump-in-the-night" duty. My #1 shotgun has been a Beretta A390 semi for 12-14 years. But, shooting trap and sporting clays can be a pain with a semi. I broke down and bought a Citori White Lightning at BassPro. It as a solid performer with clays and quail (at places that allow 12g). The Browning will be passed down. The Baikel not so much.
A buddy that shot trap with us at a charity event, bought one of the well known US company Turkey made guns and he has shot the dirt out of it. It is looser than I expected but it is still going and has shown him that he loves sporting clays, trap and five-stand. An upgrade is something you can save for and or ask for as a gift.
A buddy that shot trap with us at a charity event, bought one of the well known US company Turkey made guns and he has shot the dirt out of it. It is looser than I expected but it is still going and has shown him that he loves sporting clays, trap and five-stand. An upgrade is something you can save for and or ask for as a gift.
you're welcome bittorrent ....we all come at this part of the gun hobby from different directions...
and what you need - really comes down to what "Fits" you ...so it hits where you look / since on shotguns there is no rear sight...and how you want to use it ....
Like in all things ...not everything expensive is well made / and not everything relatively inexpensive is junk ...and if most of our gunstores knew anything other than price about their products ...a lot of guys would be happier with their purchases over the long run ...but they don't...
and if what you want is a good pump gun ...go for it ...I still have the same pump guns I bought in the early 80's ..( Browning BPS Hunter models)... they're still solid guns....and we had a good time a couple of weeks ago shooting them for skeet ...and while my best score with the old pump was probably a 23 ...it was still fun to get the old guns out and have some laughs.
and what you need - really comes down to what "Fits" you ...so it hits where you look / since on shotguns there is no rear sight...and how you want to use it ....
Like in all things ...not everything expensive is well made / and not everything relatively inexpensive is junk ...and if most of our gunstores knew anything other than price about their products ...a lot of guys would be happier with their purchases over the long run ...but they don't...
and if what you want is a good pump gun ...go for it ...I still have the same pump guns I bought in the early 80's ..( Browning BPS Hunter models)... they're still solid guns....and we had a good time a couple of weeks ago shooting them for skeet ...and while my best score with the old pump was probably a 23 ...it was still fun to get the old guns out and have some laughs.
Ruger red label is worth considering
I bought a 27 year old red label for $500 however top barrel only fired when it wanted to. I sent it back to Ruger in New Hampshire and register it back in under 2 weeks. They replaced 3 or 4 things shipped it back with 5 chokes and wrench and an original box which none of it I had. I didn't ask for the chokes and box they just included them. There was no charge not even the shipping back to me. Maybe that is just the standard way gun makers back their products but it made me a believer in Ruger. I actually just asked for help in buying my son a o/u for his high school graduation gift. I will now be looking for another red label. It was 27 years old per serial # and they still took care of it. Thanks Ruger!!!
I bought a 27 year old red label for $500 however top barrel only fired when it wanted to. I sent it back to Ruger in New Hampshire and register it back in under 2 weeks. They replaced 3 or 4 things shipped it back with 5 chokes and wrench and an original box which none of it I had. I didn't ask for the chokes and box they just included them. There was no charge not even the shipping back to me. Maybe that is just the standard way gun makers back their products but it made me a believer in Ruger. I actually just asked for help in buying my son a o/u for his high school graduation gift. I will now be looking for another red label. It was 27 years old per serial # and they still took care of it. Thanks Ruger!!!
-Sarge
Yes it is. A Stevens 512 Gold Wing in 20ga. My apologies for not getting back sooner.
I've always hunted with a Rem 1100 because it was a nice all around gun for everything I hunt. But now the Stevens is what I take when I go for upland birds, pheasant and quail. Walking a lot of miles hefting an 1100 around all day will wear you out. Like carrying a railroad tie at the end of the day. The Stevens is real light and I can vary my shells in it and change from 2 3/4 to 3"
It'll be my son's starter shotgun when he's ready.
oneounceload
Moderator
The 20 gauge lists at 7.25#! - That's a LOT of weight for a 20 you carry all day. Built well, a 20 should be in the 6-6.5# range max
troy_mclure
New member
except savage owns stevens, and stevens makes many shotguns.
aarondhgraham
New member
So what about the Stevens Goldwing?,,,
I would like to own one shotgun for when my buddies say,,,
"Hey, let's go to the range and bust some clays."
I could buy an H&R single-shot for not much money at all,,,
But I do like the looks of an over-under.
What's your appraisal of the Stevens Goldwing?
In my case I doubt it would see more than 200-300 rounds a summer,,,
I don't hunt any more so it would just be a range toy,,,
I can afford/justify a $665.00 range toy,,,
Not a $1,000 plus gun.
Aarond
I would like to own one shotgun for when my buddies say,,,
"Hey, let's go to the range and bust some clays."
I could buy an H&R single-shot for not much money at all,,,
But I do like the looks of an over-under.
What's your appraisal of the Stevens Goldwing?
In my case I doubt it would see more than 200-300 rounds a summer,,,
I don't hunt any more so it would just be a range toy,,,
I can afford/justify a $665.00 range toy,,,
Not a $1,000 plus gun.
Aarond
TheKlawMan
Moderator
I do not know about the Gold wing, but at least one Stevens, the 350, is made in China. Still, it gets pretty good reviews for a $200+ shotgun.
My personal opinion of the Stevens is pretty low...and I'd be surprised if it will hold up long term - even if you only put 500 shells a year thru it. Let alone for even 2 or 3 years. A single shot is just not versatile ...and you can't shoot "pairs" of targets in skeet, or sporting clays with it.
A gun for around $500 ---- that I know will hold up to 500 shells a year ...for 30 yrs or more ...is a Browning pump gun, called a BPS ( as in Browning Pump Shotgun ) ...and the model that is affordable / and looks good ...and will last a long time ..is the BPS Hunter model ...with a 28" barrel and screw in chokes...to make it versatile / and fine for some casual clays, sporting clays, or bird hunting...
http://www.browning.com/products/ca...d=012&type_id=211&content=bps-hunter-firearms
New, in my area, they are selling for around $ 500 / even though they list for $ 660 ( and they're available in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 or even the 16ga ----but for a versatile gun, I would go with a 12ga). Even though I shoot other guns these days....I still have the BPS Hunter models, I bought new in the early 80's with many thousands of shells thru them.
Here are my BPS's in 12ga and 20ga ...and they've been shot for clays and on birds by me - a couple of boys - and a few grandkids...and still in very good shape.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38072&d=1226363017
A gun for around $500 ---- that I know will hold up to 500 shells a year ...for 30 yrs or more ...is a Browning pump gun, called a BPS ( as in Browning Pump Shotgun ) ...and the model that is affordable / and looks good ...and will last a long time ..is the BPS Hunter model ...with a 28" barrel and screw in chokes...to make it versatile / and fine for some casual clays, sporting clays, or bird hunting...
http://www.browning.com/products/ca...d=012&type_id=211&content=bps-hunter-firearms
New, in my area, they are selling for around $ 500 / even though they list for $ 660 ( and they're available in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 or even the 16ga ----but for a versatile gun, I would go with a 12ga). Even though I shoot other guns these days....I still have the BPS Hunter models, I bought new in the early 80's with many thousands of shells thru them.
Here are my BPS's in 12ga and 20ga ...and they've been shot for clays and on birds by me - a couple of boys - and a few grandkids...and still in very good shape.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38072&d=1226363017
oneounceload
Moderator
Check the country of origin - you might be surprised
he literally has hundreds!newriverfisher
Inactive
ok , so all the big guns have answered your question , there are a couple of guns that dont break the bak and are GOOD guns ,
1. Mossberg Silver Reserve , under 600.00 at Gander Mnt or Gunsanerica.com
2. Stoeger Condor , same as above.
Both these guns will give good service and empty your wallet
1. Mossberg Silver Reserve , under 600.00 at Gander Mnt or Gunsanerica.com
2. Stoeger Condor , same as above.
Both these guns will give good service and empty your wallet