Chambering/Unloading rounds daily. Bad???

Repeatedly unloading ammo in and out of a semi auto mag has been said to be asking to damage ammo.

While the bullets are usually securely pressed into the face of the case,there could be one that is not so securely pressed in and that one could be the round that the bullet slips back and causes your gun to malfunction.

While I don't have a problem loading and unloading a mag say two or three times before I shoot a round,I think that everyday is possibly creating the possibility for a malfunction.

Like alloy and lost sheep said,that top round gets the lion share of abuse.

After a few chamberings into that barrel,I'd make it a target range only round.

Having a revolver stops this one bad thing a semi auto can do to it's rounds.

Ironically revolvers don't like bad ammo either-primers set not deep enough in their pockets or bullets lose enough to move forward in the case (usually happens in lightweight magnum guns)can also cause them to jam.

But that is a very rare case as well.
 
How much is enough?

Originally Posted by drail
Any factory made round that suffers bullet setback is defective and should be returned to the manufacturer. It is poor quality control and sloppy tolerances.

I respectfully disagree.
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And I also agree with that disagreement.

How many times should you be able to chamber a round with out it suffereing setback? One? Two? Three? (crunch-the owl knows).
15? 30? Just where does one draw the imaginary line that ammo on one side is good, and ammo on the other side is defective?

And if it still goes bang when you pull the trigger, is it defective? I won't say that ammo makers should be forgiven for actual defective rounds (although contrary to many beliefs, they are human too!), but I also don't think that they should be called to task if their product does not meet unreasonable expectations!

There is no stated or implied guarantee that each round will surivive X number of mechanical cycles (sort of firing) unscathed. After the first one, its really a matter of chance. Good quality ammo will take a few chamberings without harm, and thats what we expect. Less than this, we get worried or upset. Rounds that go more, we never even think about.

The first pistol I ever bought for myself was a Browning BDA .45 (Sig P220), and with it came two boxes of Federal 185gr JHP ammo. Great stuff, shot exact point of aim at 25yds. I kept one mags worth of that stuff for many, many years as my carry ammo. Thousands of rounds of handloads through the gun, but when I went out, that mag of factory stuff went in the gun. Several of those rounds had been chambered so many times the nickel cases had brass stripes showing through. When that stuff finally got fired (after about 25 years!) it all worked flawlessly! None of those rounds ever suffered bullet setback. I consider this exceptional performance, well above average. Maybe they just made them better back then, I don't know.

What I do know is that it happens sometimes, and unless it happens after the first couple chamberings, I don't consider the round defective. Less than the best, yes. But not defective. Ammo is made to properly chamber and fire, once. Everything after that is gravy. Because we get the gravy so often, we expect it, but that doesn't mean the potatoes are defective if we don't get a plate full of gravy every single time!
 
By "unload," Im assuming you mean unloading the entire magazine? Or do you mean simply removing a "chambered" round?

Im not sure if this will help any, but I will give you my method as an example:

I tend to keep 4 mags for HD, two marked as number "1," two marked as number "2." My particular weapon (for now) has a 13 round capacity, but I tend to download to 10 rounds only (in hopes of minimizing wear/tear on the mag spring and the ammo contained therein). For single stack mags, I tend to download by one round.

I will keep 10 rounds in both mags (marked "1") for one month, then I will unload both magazines and basically reverse the order in which the ammo is stored within the mag(s). Essentially, the top round will then become the bottom round. In addition, I always "tap" the back of the mags (after loading) in order to "set" the ammo within the mag (given that you are in the military, Im sure you are already aware of this method).

After another month has passed, I will then begin using the mags marked "2." At this point, I will take both the first and last rounds and move them to the middle of the order, thus making the "outside" rounds somewhat fresh. After yet another month has passed, I will once again swap the top and bottom rounds.

After this ammo/mag swapping has occured over a 4 month "cycle," I will then fire off these rounds, replace with fresh ammo and begin the cycle all over again. This way, Im not forced to constantly load/unload the same mags and I only (I use this term loosely) need to burn through 60 rounds of my expensive ammo a year (in this case, HD ammo). Of course, given the rather "rare" availability of my particular ammo of choice for HD, I have considered loading the primary mag with HP ammo and going with FMJ ammo for the second mag. This way, I can cut my HP ammo expenditure down to 30 rounds a year. This would not be my optimal choice, but given the "ammo hoarding"/lack of availability we are currently experiencing, it may just be the most "practical."

So, I guess the main thing I could recommend is to cycle the ammo on a regular basis and try to use multiple mags if you can. In your case, I might consider possibly using a two month cycle (vs. the 4 month cycle I use) or whatever you feel most appropriate. Regardless, this is just my way of dealing with this issue and by no means can I consider myself an "authority" on this stuff. The method I use is simply based on my own needs, firing frequency and any information I have gleaned over the past few years.

As a side note - I never chamber any of these rounds until it is actually time to fire the gun.
 
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This issue of set back can depend on ammo, gun, or loading style; but, it happens and is normal. Just hard to predict when, how much, and how many
cycles.
Get a cheap micrometer, test the round and as soon as one detects slight setback, shoot it for practice.
 
There is no need to "cycle" magazines or ammunition. Springs don't "wear out." Normally, loading magazines does not damage ammunition. Chambering ammunition in autopistols repeatedly can cause setback. Setback is bad-it increases pressures drastically.
 
Just to be safe, I would place the chambered round in a box every week or so for the range. 52 rounds a year isn't too much practice SD ammo to stay familiar with your CCW.
 
i guess the 2 most prominent problems i see is 1) increased chance of accidental discharge, and 2) weakening the mag spring by cycleing it much more. since you are in the military, the second reall is of no concern. if the mag spring sacks out, just go get a new one. just be carefull when unloading and reloading, you should be fine.
 
There is no need to "cycle" magazines or ammunition. Springs don't "wear out."
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Do you have evidence to back this up? Just curious.

Seems to me that either the repetitive cycling of ammo over an extended period of time and/or leaving a spring fully (or close to fully) compressed will, over time, wear the spring out. This, of course, is not factoring in the affects this may or may not have on the ammo as well. Consider this: You have either a) a revolver (for instance) full of ammo vs. b) a magazine full of ammo, both of which have been sitting for many years "as is." Which one would you rather bet you life on?

If what you say is true, then I guess no spring contained within a semi-automatic would ever require changing (in theory) as "springs dont wear out."

I mean, one of the known downsides of owning a semi-automatic, besides possible jamming issues as compared to a revolver (for instance), is the presence of springs (not just considering mag springs here) which are either always compressed, partially compressed or compressed/uncompressed on a regular basis (this seems to cause the most wear). Hence, they are more likely to need replacement over time. Even if these springs dont necessarily "wear out", they darn sure can become weak enough to cause feeding issues, jams, extraction issues, etc. To me at least, being worn to the point of inconsistent reliability is the same as being "worn out."

What goes for semi-autos also goes for shotguns (for the most part). Cycling ammo and downloading are known, accepted techniques for minimizing wear on any ammunition contained within the weapon, over a period of time, as well as the preservation of spring "life" and/or reliability.

Essentially, your statement just does not make any rational sense...to me at least. It would certainly be nice to believe that springs dont "wear out" or in the very least, are at risk of becoming unreliable. Regardless, when it comes to any of my weapons used for HD, Im just not willing to take that chance...on the springs or the ammo.

In terms of those who choose to keep a round chambered, I think that it is certainly a good idea to move the chambered round to the bottom of the stack, particularly if repetitive loading/unloading is warranted.
 
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About once a month I tear apart my carry gun and clean it, fired or not. When I do the rounds get cycled, round in the chamber moved to the bottom of the mag. If you're doing this daily it certainly is possible for the bullet to be forced further and further into the casing.

Just to be obsessive you could measure the overall length after a few chambers versus a fresh from the box round with a caliper and check the difference.. I certainly wouldn't want to risk it being pushed into the casing too far over time.
 
The Israeli carry is workable if you train for it, but another option is to manually chamber the round. That way the nose of the bullet never receives an impact, scrapes/slides up the feed ramp or, indeed, ever needs to see the inside of a magazine. Good luck.............

Lost Sheep
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No, but what does happen is that the extractor hits the already chambered round and has to bounce (flex) around it. Saving your bullets at the expense of your extractor isn't the answer. You might cushion the slide to keep the extractor from slamming into the case so hard, but you could do that when loading the bullet to begin with.

I guess, so far, I don't have much agreement with my simple method of cushioning the slide. Won't be any bullet set back that way, and little bullet nose damage. If you drop the slide at full force, then that bullet goes to the bottom of the mag. next time.

Some say that if you don't load your DA/SA with the full force of the slide, the impact of the first round is different from the subsequent SA shots. Well, not that I can tell in SD practice.

Some say there's an impact difference different even if you do use the full force of the slide.

I'd emphasize that cushioning the slide is for "administrative" loading only--not for training or combat practice.:cool:
 
No, but what does happen is that the extractor hits the already chambered round and has to bounce (flex) around it. Saving your bullets at the expense of your extractor isn't the answer.
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Correct. Direct chamber loading (dropping a round into the chamber and then dropping the slide) will damage extractors on many pistols. Some are made to tolerate that practice but unless the manual or manufacturer states it is acceptable it should be avoided.
 
Seems to me that either the repetitive cycling of ammo over an extended period of time and/or leaving a spring fully (or close to fully) compressed will, over time, wear the spring out. This, of course, is not factoring in the affects this may or may not have on the ammo as well. Consider this: You have either a) a revolver (for instance) full of ammo vs. b) a magazine full of ammo, both of which have been sitting for many years "as is." Which one would you rather bet you life on?
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I'd bet my life on either with equal confidence. The whole gun is, in effect, a spring.

Bolts and screws are really springs. Think about it. In order to provide clamping force they have to stretch. You can take them out and re-use them as often as you want. (Some exceptions are found in automotive head bolts where they stretch-to-yield and can only be used once.)

The chamber is a "spring". Every time you fire a gun the chamber expands to absorb the pressure and then relaxes back to its original dimension. We identify high-pressure rounds by stuck cases. In effect all we are seeing is a chamber that expanded enough to pinch the also-expanded brass.

As long as you don't exceed their elastic limit the springs in a pistol magazine are just as reliable as the springs in a revolver.
 
As long as you don't exceed their elastic limit the springs in a pistol magazine are just as reliable as the springs in a revolver.
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I get what you are saying. However, I would certainly choose the loaded revolver over the loaded mag (say, after a decade or more) if for no other reason than the possibility of the ammo having "set" within the mag. To me, this is an example of why mags/ammo should be cycled. Ammo by itself isnt necessarily a problem; springs by themselves arent necessarily a problem. But, combined..they can become a problem (in this particular case) if left unattended for long periods of time.

Regardless, many (who know far more about weapons/mechanics than myself or many others out there) purport that springs, magazine or otherwise, can (and do) become ineffective over repetitive useage, particularly due to many cycles of compression/decompression. In contrast, what seems to have the most affect on the ammunition itself is when it is under constant compression.

To me, saying that mag springs (or springs in general) "do not wear out" is quite the blanket statement. This is not even to mention the "ammo does not require cycling" comment. If this were the case, I guess I could just start keeping all of my mags loaded (indefinately), uncycled and as long as I dont put a round in the chamber, would have no worries in regards to ammo or springs. As an added benefit, even after many thousands of rounds, I still would have no worries as the springs (mag or otherwise) just wouldnt wear out, but would continue to function reliably each time, every time. :rolleyes:

Im not trying to be a jerk, but I just recall too many experiences/recommendations that replacing various springs within such a weapon is generally considered a good idea after so many rounds and/or years of use (particularly if this weapon is to be used for HD or CC). Also, such recommendations include the downloading and cycling of magazines/ammo in order to help prevent mag spring and/or ammo related issues. Very rarely, if ever, have I heard such a statement regarding the reliable function of revolvers, given the same scenario. Now, have I ever tried disproving my own theory? Nope. Does this mean that what I am purporting is "all inclusive" or "mandate?" Not at all. But, then again, I generally tend trying to take advice when it comes to ways of keeping Mr. Murphy as far away from me as possible.

Now, cycling ammo and mags is certainly an inconvenience. But, then again, filling up my gas tank every 10 days is as well.

In essence, I tend to think of the semi-auto as being far more of an autonomous weapon verses, say, the revolver or even the pump shotgun. Hence, the reliability of the various springs which make this weapon function take on much more significance. The magazine spring is no exception to this rule as far as Im concerned.
 
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Perhaps you should do a search...
Springs do not wear out, unless compressed or stretched past their elastic limit, or are improperly designed or improperly heat treated.
Whether you think not does not make it so. :rolleyes:
Read this: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130369/
Springs will work harden after many compressions. Keeping them compressed (not over compressed) has no effect.
I have magazines that have been loaded for 20 years. They still work fine.
I have never replaced a gun spring in 35 years of working on guns. I have never replaced a spring on one of my cars, either.
 
I change out my 2 mags of full golden sabers out for my 2 mags of snap caps all the time. Since I carry with one in the chamber, I have to extract that one round to be safe :D
I pop it back in through a mag at the end of dry firing, then top off the mag again. Bullets get indentations sometimes on the sides, but I have fired those plenty and they work just fine. Cosmetic damage imo.
 
Enough said on this and all aspects have been covered. My only input is along the mentioned line of a revolver would work. No set-back problems. Period.
 
constant unloading/reloading will cause HP to get damaged nose! just use FMJ to load frist round,pop out mag add 1 HP,your good!
 
Springs do not wear out, unless compressed or stretched past their elastic limit, or are improperly designed or improperly heat treated.
Whether you think not does not make it so.
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And presenting such info as if it were settled facts also does not make it so. When the folks at Wollf GunSprings say that they have found springs do wear out in ordinary use, I think they might have some idea that they know a bit about springs.:)
 
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