CCW 1911

Now let me ask you this: Do any of you guys have to wear a size or two bigger in jeans to conceal you pistols? I've only been carrying a little over a year so I need some professional advice here.

What about IWB carry vs OWB? What are the advantages and disadvantages?
 
sheepdog,

Others did a good job of answering the question about belts. Generally speaking, a belt not designed for concealed carry will not be as comfortable or hold the gun as well concealed as one that is so designed. You can always crank up the tension by pulling the belt a notch or two tighter, but that tends to be much more uncomfortable than wearing a belt stiff enough not to need that treatment -- and if the belt is unsturdy enough, even on full tension it will still hold the holstered firearm unstably and poorly concealed.

As far as carrying SOB, I don't recommend it and know of almost no reputable trainers who do. There are several reasons:

  • In the SOB position, the gun tends to be poorly concealed.
  • With the gun behind your back (and poorly concealed), it becomes a tempting target for gun grabbers -- and it's very difficult to defend against a gun grab that comes from behind you. It can be done, but simply isn't as readily defendable as a gun carried in a less awkward position.
  • It's a very slow and awkward draw, one that begins by putting yourself almost in an elbow lock.
  • That slow and awkward draw cannot be practiced on most ranges; even very permissive ranges that do allow people to use their holsters rarely allow SOB because the draw will sweep people around you.
  • If you get into a car accident with that solid piece of metal sitting directly over your spinal cord, you'll be in a bad position. Similarly, if you get slammed against a wall during an altercation, you can very easily be paralyzed by the force multiplier riding directly over your spinal cord. If you trip and fall on your backside, landing on that force multiplier is very dangerous. This risk is a serious enough concern that most LE depts have policies to prevent officers from carrying anything at all over the spinal cord, including handcuff cases.

Looking at the IWB vs OWB question, here are a few points to consider.

  • OWB carry tends to be more comfortable for most people, since it holds the firearm outside the clothing.
  • With OWB, you won't need any extra room inside your trousers for the firearm -- and that often means a savings for someone just getting started with concealed carry, as you don't yet have a wardrobe to match your lifestyle change.
  • IWB tends to be better concealed, sometimes much better concealed.
  • IWB is more forgiving of bad belts -- a non-trivial concern for someone dealing with budget issues. People often can't afford to buy all their gear at once, and IWB tends to be a bit more forgiving during the time frame between deciding to carry and deciding to carry comfortably.
  • IWB often requires fewer cover garments; some people wear their IWB with just a single (loose) shirt, with the holstered gun up against skin.
  • OWB requires a longer cover garment, and tends to be less forgiving of firearms with longer barrels because the bottom of the holster will often peek out from under garments that aren't long enough to cover the firearm with a little room to spare.
  • IWB doesn't limit barrel length quite so much (though this factor depends heavily on holster design and also where on your waist you decide to carry the firearm).

There are many many good holster designs available in both IWB and OWB designs, so mostly it's just a matter of finding something that works well for you. I personally own both, but almost never wear OWB except at the range.

Hope this helps.

pax
 
I have used the uncle mike's IWB holsters with a little success with revolvers. The cylinder seems to help it keep the gun sandwiched in there. The plastic clip is almost worthless, however. I have found that sitting up and down was enough to move it off the belt.

I don't think you have to have an $80 gun belt to have success. A purpose-constructed belt sure does help, though.

In any case, you have entered the long journey of finding out what carry rig works for you. Consider how differently everyone is shaped, your clothing style, what movements you're going through in a day, just HOW concealed the pistol must be and how accessible it must be and you've got a lot to figure out.

All that said, the consensus seems to be that the Milt Sparks VMII is the best for most people. There are a few similar designs (though they don't look the same) that some people prefer. These are the crossbreed supertuck and those like it. If you want to try one for not as much as you'd pay for the other designs, I recommend the kholster (kholster.com). They're $50 shipped and you're probably going to want to alter the cut of the leather backing to a "combat cut" like the supertuck, but it's something that takes 2 minutes, a sharpie and a sharp pair of quality scissors. Better yet, wait for the kholster to go on sale. They recently sold them for $36. Every couple of months it seems they have one sale or another.

I have some experience carrying a govt-sized 1911 (even the Taurus, which I also found to be a GREAT shooter). I have gone back and forth on the matter and settled on the fact that, for ME, there's nothing to do but dress around it. No matter where I put it or how I cant it, that butt is going to stick out if I do anything but stand up ramrod straight. And it's my opinion that with the length of the gun, it's much more comfortable to conceal OWB. Your mileage may vary.
 
thesheepdog said:
...Do any of you guys have to wear a size or two bigger in jeans to conceal you pistols?...
Click to expand...
I tend to buy my trousers on the loose side anyway, and that definitely helps with IWB carry.

Pax did a fine job of covering the respective advantages and disadvantages of IWB vs. OWB carry.
 
I've been using the same $20 Desantis Dual Carry for over a decade now. It's stood up to daily carry of my S&W 3914 and I find I barely even notice it's there. Will attest to having a good quality carry belt though, it makes all the difference so spend your money there first.
 
this is my go everywhere with me carry:

IMG_20100813_133139.jpg


and a gun belt in brown and black with holsters that make it feel like its barely there. I have since shaved down the IWB holster so its more of a "combat cut"

IMG_20100819_190633.jpg
 
Word of Caution:

Before you invest in a good holster, ask around and talk to various people, including the leather bender. Various holsters work best with certain body types. For Example:

I'm short torsoed and long of leg. The VMII does not work well for me because it carries the gun too high for me to have a reasonably sucessful draw. The Milt Sparks Summer Special II works very well for me, in that it carries the weapon lower on the belt line than the VMII.

Holsters, like underwear and shoes are an individual thing and one holster will not work for everyone. If you are looking at Kydex for IWB you may want to look at Blade Tech. They have, or at least did, an inexspensive IWB holster that would allow you to adjust the rake, and wasn't a bad holster for the money. I think it sold for around $25 or so. It was an inexspensive way to get into a decent IWB Holster for little money. I also liked that it came with loops with "pull the dot" snaps instead of clips.

Biker
 
I concur with those who say buy a decent belt. I didn't know how much I was surrendering until I finally bought a decent belt. As for holsters, if Uncle Mike's works for you, go with it. My first holster was an Uncle Mike's, and it certainly held the pistol (a Springfield Armory Lightweight Champion) securely, and had a retention strap, which I like.

But a decent belt and holster combination is certainly worth the price of a few boxes of ammo. By the way, BikerRN's word of caution is superb advice. Not every holster or even style of holster will work for you. As pax so artfully put it, a girl's hips may accommodate one style of carry but not another; no less so, a man's build will in large part dictate what works for concealed carry. The problem, of course, is that you can't actually try out a broken-in holster with your pistol. You have to buy on faith and hope the choice works.

But that way, you get a basket full of useless holsters to mark you as a veteran! ;)

Oh, and friend, lose the small-of-back carry. It's bad in so many ways, as pax kindly pointed out.
 
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This is the first I have seen the words "Taurus" and "most accurate" in the same sentence...then you say "no bashing". Well, ok...
 
Sorry to enter in here again, but I think this must be said.

Another consideration alluded to on page one, is this - the holster has to permit one handed re-holstering. This bit of wisdom I got from Tamara from this site. If, God forbid it, you have to deploy that pistol for self defense, and if you're groping around trying to find the holster after the fact, you just might blow a finger off, or a big hole in your femoral artery. You won't be exactly at your best. You must get a holster which permits one-handed reholstering, in my humble opinion.

Hope this helps.
 
I have no personal objection to Uncle Mike's, having never used one. With that said, though, I looked long and hard at IWB holsters. Eventually, I thought I had settled on a Crossbreed Supertuck, but $85 for the horsehide, plus tax and shipping seemed pretty steep. Then I found out that there are a couple of guys (theis and kwart come to mind) over at Glocktalk who make CBST clones for 1/2-2/3 of the price. I ordered one on the Wednesday before Veterans' Day, and it was in my hands by Saturday. Granted, theis lives less than 50 miles from me, but he was a really good guy to deal with, I got the holster very quickly, and it is a very nice piece of work. Thesheepdog, if you're looking for a holster (& I'm not sure if you are), I'd suggest heading down into The Want Ads (Holsters & Related Items) at GT to check them out.
 
One handed reholstering...

... is one major advantage with Sam Andrews' gear.

His IWB holsters have steel reinforcing collars at the front, under the leather, so they hold an open shape. His saddles and paddles are built thick and rigid on that arch area, so they hold shape without the steel.

(There's more pressure from pants and belt trying to close an IWB, so reinforcement is more useful on the IWB holsters.)
 
My Opinion - Galco Miami Classic 2 for 1911 Size Firearms but, I no longer depend on a 1911 as a Carry Gun.
Carried a few High End 1911s over the years, but Expereince is a Good Teacher.

Watched 2 High End Match 1911s Jam last night in a IDPA Match.
Neither person will Carry a 1911.
 
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The UM holster is very smooth, but lacks the ability to re-holster one-handed.
I tried a better belt-from Pax's advice-and i did notice a major difference is concealability.
 
I've been using the 1911 "clip-draw". The gun gets wear, but with a t-shirt between you and the metal it feels ok. The clip can go inside the belt or over the belt. The gun rides pretty high and pretty secure when clipped on the belt. And no holster bulk.
 
If you're printing with the butt of the handgun, the typical approach is to get a holster with more cant; tipping the muzzle more to the rear lets the grip angle forward, and allows it to tuck in a bit better, since when sitting at an angle the fore-to-aft dimensions of the grip are essentially reduced.


Larry
 
thesheepdog said:
"Now let me ask you this: Do any of you guys have to wear a size or two bigger in jeans to conceal you pistols? I've only been carrying a little over a year so I need some professional advice here."
Click to expand...
If you're carrying a .45 in an Inside-Waistband-Holster (IWB), then yes, many guys purchase the next size up waistline in jeans to accommodate the pistol in the holster inside the waistband of the jeans.

If you're carrying the .45 outside the waistband, then obviously it doesn't apply - you wear whatever size jeans you normally wear.

thesheepdog said:
"What about IWB carry vs OWB? What are the advantages and disadvantages?"
Click to expand...
Pax did a good job of going over the basic comparison.

The only comment I'd add is that much of your decision MAY depend on what you do for a living, what sort of environment you're in all day (for example, an office versus driving a truck for a living), what sort of clothing you routinely wear (for example, whether you wear a coat & tie every day or jeans, shirt, and a jacket), and so on.

OWB carry is often more comfortable for many people, but is also often more difficult to conceal. IWB with the right belt and holster can be reasonably comfortable in an office environment, but if you are a person who spends your entire day riding in an automobile or truck, for example, it might not be the optimal carry for that sort of environment.

Where and how you choose to carry a gun everyday is often going to be dependent on what you wear and what sort of environment you're in most days. Most people ultimately find that in order to carry a gun daily, concealed comfortably, they need to do a little wardrobe planning and thinking to accommodate that concealed weapon.

YMMV.
 
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