CC empty vs live chamber

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Armednfree....

Yes you are so right. Things like that generally happen very fast. It's always fast when you are caught unaware. I had a home invasion when I was single and living alone a few years back. It was in the middle of the night and I was sleeping. I was awakened suddenly by a loud crash outside my bedroom door. It was the sound of glass hitting glass when the intruder had tripped on the step up from the sunken living room into the hall and a credenza with glass objects in the hall outside my bedroom. The sound terrified me, as did the fact that the light suddenly went out. I screamed and I froze, like a bunny rabbit. But then, knowing my life depended on it, I sprang into action. I grabbed my gun from my nightstand and yelled out that I was armed. I have since been told not to do this but looking back I think I did the right thing. I didn't have a phone in the bedroom so I had to make my way out and down the hall to call 911. I could clearly see the patio door of my living room was wide open and didn't know if the intruder was still inside or not. The 911 operator asked me if I had a gun and I said yes. Her response was "Good, just stay where you are, stay calm and I am right here with you." She continued to talk to me until one cop arrived. I met him at the door holding my gun. It was a snub nosed S&W .38. I was very comfortable with it as I have had revolvers all my life. The first cop on the scene could see the patio door open and he told me we would wait for backup, which arrived about two minutes later. It was only then they asked me to put my gun down. lol They looked around the house and out in the back but the intruder was long gone by then. My gun was cocked at the time. Both cops could see that but neither one of them said anything about it. I had cocked it in the bedroom before calling 911.
It only takes a second to cock a gun. Looking back I know I wouldn't want to have to rack the slide and depend on it not jamming in case of an intrusion like I had. I shudder to think of what might have happened had he not crashed into the table with the glassware outside my bedroom door. What was he there for? To rob me? To rape me? To murder me?

Thankfully I will never know. I still sleep with my .38 on the nightstand. I can't go to sleep if it isn't there. It's not fancy. It's black with black rubber grips and even though it's supposed to be Airweight it is still heavy to me. But I always know I can depend on it.

With my pistols, not so much. I carry with a bullet in the chamber. There is no way I could rack the slide quick enough to respond to a sudden threat. My hands are not that strong and even if they were, that one or two extra seconds could be life or death.

I am currently in the market for a better (much better) pocket pistol. I'm looking at a .380. Thinking of either Colt or Sig Saur. Any recommendations would be appreciated. The most dependable one that will fit in my pocket or waist holster or purse and that the slide is easy to rack would be my preference. I do not like to have to cock the gun to rack the slide, as has been my experience with some.

Currently I have a Raven .25 and a Taurus .22. They are just for fun and not serious weapons that I feel I can depend on. Well, the Taurus is more dependable but as I stated, I want a serious gun now. It has to be lightweight.

~ Jazz
 
Pick one OR the other. Carry that way consistently. Train that was regularly.
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If you really train, and by that I mean train with realistic FoF exercises, you will learn rather quickly that carrying with an empty chamber is a poor choice.
 
If you really train, and by that I mean train with realistic FoF exercises, you will learn rather quickly that carrying with an empty chamber is a poor choice
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Right on point^^^^^^^.
Unfortunately you can lead the horse to water and you cannot make him drink.
A lot of very good solid information shared in this thread and if some choose to ignore solid advice they possibly will either live or die by their personal choice of chamber carry. If it is the latter, it will be a very hard one time lesson learned.
 
Empty chamber on a Colt SAA revolver; Of course it should be empty, but that doesn't keep the Singleaction Colt from being just as fast as it would be loaded with six, but that is the only gun I carry with an empty chamber under the hammer.

When carrying a handgun for self defense, (and I am talking semi-autos here) there is just too much that can go wrong when having to rack a round into the chamber under stress. Always carry a round in the chamber, if the semi-auto gun is on your person, and carried for self defense.
However, Years ago, I did on occasion sometimes end up carrying a 1911 in condition 3.
One situation was when I had young kids, and sometimes kept the gun in my vehicle's console when traveling, then when getting out to go in a motel, etc., I would take my gun out of the console and stick it in my wasteband. I didn't rack the slide because of safety reasons, under the conditions of being in the car, etc. But I did know the disadvantages but I also was carrying a 1911 with a pretty light trigger, and the other times were when traveling and carrying in a horizontal shoulder holster because I didn't feel comfortable traveling all day with a cocked and locked 45 pointing at my son riding in the back seat even though I know it was quite safe, I just didn't want to do it.

But I practiced a lot and was pretty darned good at racking the slide on a 1911. But these days I always carry cocked and locked in strong side Milt Sparks holster.
 
I carry with one in the chamber. I do have the safety on................I don't carry a Glock or other gun with a 5# or lighter trigger pull and NO safety. I will carry a REVOLVER BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE A SHORT 5# PULL. I even carry an LC9 with the safety on. As for carrying with an empty chamber, how important is the half second to charge it, it's life or death important.
 
^^^
That's a whole other can o' worms.
Round in the tube, and no manually operated safety to miss, slip off of, or forget in the high stress situation of an attack.
 
If you are not confident enough in your equipment to carry condition 1 you likely need to do two things:
Buy a holster that is NOT a $19.95 nylon special.
Train until you are confident enough in YOURSELF and your equipment to carry condition 1. This means more than just punching holes in paper on your own.
 
Does it make any difference to you in carrying with bullet in chamber and
safety off if your pistol is single action or double action? Does that affect your
decision in the slightest?
 
There are some very technical differences in single action versus double action when you start talking striker fired. In the theory of operation Glocks, and many other striker fired pistols, do not fully prepare the striker to fire until you start to pull the trigger making them, in theory, "double" action. Some striker fired pistols hold the striker in ready position when the round is chambered making them "single" action. I am not certain I would be 100% comfortable with the striker being that prepared to fire without some type of secondary safety like the grip safety on an XD.

In hammer fired pistols single (carried cocked and locked), double action, or whatever anyone is calling light double I don't care. I get the argument that "the first shot being different will throw you off" but I simply don't buy it. We are not talking bullseye shooting in this forum but if we are then I might buy it.
 
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first of all, I've never felt the need to carry, I do have the permit. If I carried I'd carry empty chamber, hammer back, full mag, safety off (1911). should the attacker got hold of my gun and pulled the trigger, the gun would not fire and give me seconds to respond. I do practice drawing and racking the slide at the range. hdbiker
 
So, every step in firearm use/ownership progression is different for everyone, but I've found the best way to help someone new to some of the higher levels of commitment is below.

  • Your first time using a firearm
    for most folks, this is the first trip to the range with a family member or friend. Adrenalin, wonder, amazement, endorphins. It's all usually positive, but is the smallest amount of commitment required, as it ends quickly and usually with no lingering effects, other than the smiles.
  • Your first purchase of a firearm
    This is the one you'll take home
    Some put a lot of thought into it, some just grab whatever feels comfortable in their hand at the glass counter.
    Most, when they determine that they like it, will have many more than 1 and become more discerning in their later purchases.
  • The decision on how to store your home defense firearm
    This is the first set of hard questions as things are getting real now:
    Locked in a Safe, out on the nightstand?
    Stored in what condition, 0 - 4 ?
    Concerns over who in the household may gain unauthorized access?
  • The decision to become an every day carrier
    Do I have the right gun?
    Do I have the right training and proficiency?
    Carry condition, 0 - 4?
    The right place, the right time to carry?
    Who should, or shouldn't know?

There are of course more "Moments of truth" in the progression of participating in firearm use, owning and carrying firearms. Places like this are great for folks who are either just starting out, or are taking the next step in their personal evolution.

For me, I'm unburdened by ego that prevents me from asking what might sound like, (or actually be) a dumb question. It's possible that others feel like I do, that when you come here, you have arrived at a place where like minded people might have already experienced something you're thinking about, working on or if you're at a moment of truth, struggling with. Sometimes you just need to "air it out" like you do with a friend, in order to help think through something.

So, all things considered, thanks for listening, and perhaps when you see a post, similar to one started and already answered some time ago by someone else who has since moved on, just try to remember that we were all at one time, at the same place as the person asking a question that to you, may be a "no-brainer". After all, that person may one day be the only defender available to someone you care about.

Train often, gain proficiency and where you can, share what you know with others.
 
Oh, the one thing I forgot, was that something that helped me in my evolution to EDC, was a post by someone a long time ago, to carry in my house, unloaded but in ready to fire condition to get comfortable with the fact that the trigger will not be engaged while carrying.

So, to whoever that was, a long time ago, thanks for the tip! Got me through my initial "next level" concern in short order.
 
At this point, is it really still a question? Carrying with an unloaded chamber can literally get you killed. There are real cases where somebody needed that extra step of properly racking the slide and didn't make it. It can and does happen, regardless of training. Just don't do it.

There are also cases of failure with the extra step of properly operating a manual safety. It is arguably less of an ordeal to get that done. It is arguably faster to do this than it is to rack a slide. Failure might be less catastrophic or more recoverable. It still happens. That's why I don't recommend manual safeties on a carry gun either.

If anyone wants to spend some time looking at real footage of real crises in which people needed to defend their lives, check out the "Active Self Protection" channel on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsE_m2z1NrvF2ImeNWh84mw
 
Maybe this has been covered before, but an aspect of it that must be taken into account is the NOISE! involved when you rack a slide. The sound of a slide racking isn't going to intimidate the guy who has a gun pointed at your abdomen, it will probably just encourage him to shoot you in order to keep you from shooting him. if you look at a lot of video analyses online, you are going to see that an element of surprise is sometimes the only thing that makes an event survivable.

So, empty chamber sets your response time back a second, at least, maybe two or even three, and well, that is maybe even three minutes that the other guy has to make his decision. What is my decision going to be?

"OH, HOLY FLYING PURPLE POODLE TURDS! THAT SOB HAS A GUN!"

Then I'm going to shoot you. Good guy, bad guy, it doesn't matter, if you are in an armed confrontation, having to load a round before firing is going to signal ability and intent and it's probably the single most likely thing to make a bad guy decide to kill you. Don't do it and maybe they won't actually even come to that point and make the decision, maybe the guy will just stand there and let you shoot him with your silently drawn concealed weapon.

That is the single most important thing that I can think of. This is a similar discussion to the one of "should I rack the slide on my shotgun and scare away the bad guy who's standing in my hallway?"
 
Here's something that I believe that the whole membership can benefit from. Are there people here who are anywhere from either true expert to just well experienced laymen who could demonstrate this on video? Put up a target, stand at a ten foot line, draw from concealment and double tap.

I'd love to see a half dozen or so people demonstrate how practical and safe carry with an empty chamber is.
 
very good.

I guess that if it is boiled down to one issue, if a person carries with empty chamber, that person presumes that under any possible circumstances, he will still be able to access, draw, chamber a round, and be able to do so quickly enough to save him from injury or death. We have to be honest and admit that the situations shown, people failing to win encounters because of an empty chamber don't happen frequently. Accidental discharges of concealed weapons almost certainly happen a lot more frequently. My choice for a semiautomatic will always be either a trigger with a passive safety like the glock, or a double action semiautomatic.
 
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