Carrying at work even though its against policy

[bungiex88]

I do carry into places that have signs that say no guns unless it is law u cant like courthouse and schools. Are mall has a couple signs in some entrances I just choose to enter the doors that don't have the sign.

 

[A pause for the COZ]

Thats a very hard question to answer.
Were I work, even though our president is a CC holder and a shooter.
We are not allowed to carry at work.
Our policy is set by a board of directors who by default are risk adverse.
They look at the odds that there could be a issue with an employee with a gun compared to the odds of active shooter event.

Guess what side they pick? It really does not have any thing to do with employees protecting them selves or being ready made victims.
Mostly its just a risk formula and we are on the side that they have insurance for.

For us it comes down to our risk tolerance. I dont carry at work but I have moved jobs more than once to draw my risk level down.
I have worked in the inner city, in areas that were not safe. But I did have choices since that was only one part of my area of responsibility. I would work those areas from 8am until 1pm, Never latter. Scruff Muffins are up all night causing trouble. They are asleep early days.
In these same area that after 4pm I would be lucky to make two blocks with out getting robbed. At 10 am they are like small town USA. Strange really..

If I had been required to be there at times that I felt unsafe. I would have quit. At the least requested in writing an escort. So my family could collect with a good lawyer.
But it is what it is. You have to eat. Just keep moving until you get to a safer place.

 

[turkeestalker]

... huh... y'know.... NOW that I read that again... you're absolutely right!

I carry everywhere. I quietly laugh at those signs that say NO GUNS.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Having laws that say you can conceal carry but contradicting those laws with other laws saying you can't carry (here) are a funny joke, and not one that I respect in the least.

Yeah, let me just toss my gun in the gun basket while I do my business in that facility and pick it up on the way out. Yeah no...

Quote:
So, you are for ignoring and violating the rights of others who have a business because of your own views? WOW.

Yep.
Nobody is getting "violated" either. Not unless they themselves pull a gun or a knife out and go crazy on others.

Those were more like pounding fists on a swollen chest or something... not at all meant as a recommendation in any way... yep... TOTAL fiction!




I'm pretty new to this forum, and I've no where near the wisdom and experience at 52 years old that a great many of it's users have, many much younger. I jump straight up in the air and land with both feet square in my mouth way more often than I'd like to trust me. When I do tend to do that so adeptly, I accept it humbly or at least I try to.

 

[44 AMP]

Besides using chemicals such as those found in house hold products and pesticides could potentially kill the perpetrator if they are allergic to any of the ingredients found in them. If that should happen you'll be defending yourself in a court of law and I'm pretty sure there will be no way to justify using such chemicals as a self defense weapon

It would seem to me that if you are justified in using deadly force, the specific means is immaterial. Gun, knife, ovencleaner, hot coffee, a rock, Dad's old sweat socks, what ever is at hand.

I don't see how the attacker dying because they were allergic is different than if they were shot, they died as a result of being stopped. If you are justified in using deadly force, and they die, they die.

Now, planning on using something unconventional, in advance, and carrying it, might be something a lawyer could try to use to show mindset, and intent, and might try to convince the jury that because you chose something not commonly recognized as a deadly weapon, that you didn't believe deadly force was necessary, etc.,

For that reason I would not recommend carrying wasp spray or oven cleaner or other similar thing as a personal defense weapon. However, if I were on a jury where a woman was attacked in her kitchen and she ovencleanered her attacker, the fact that she didn't use a gun wouldn't bother me...

 

[thallub]

Have anyone ever carried whene the employee handbook says it is prohibited and got problems from it??

Not i.

Carrying a concealed weapon on the premises of an employer who prohibits same can have consequences beyond being fired. i have refused to hire two guys who were fired from previous jobs for carrying concealed. One guy carried a concealed weapon on a federal installation in violation of federal law. His actions cost his employer the contract. The man has never held another job in his chosen field.

 

[Minorcan]

Quote:
Chtoff, it may be acceptable to you to recommend others to break laws that can ruin their life, have them jailed and probably also loose their right to even own guns much less carry them but I strongly recommend that the OP not pursue your recommendations. I recommend reading "Florida Firearms - Law, Use and Ownership" by Jon H. Gutmacher. He is the most recognized lawyer, expert and writer on the topic of gun ownership and concealed carry. I know he focuses on Florida but he also has sections for other states as well. Get legal advice from a lawyer and expert not a post on any forum.



That's some funny little fiction you made up, especially about my non existent "recommendation"

There is not a single piece of language in what I said that implies "do what I do"

The OP asked a question. Your reply is in response to the question which strongly implies it your solution to the question which makes it a recommendation. Either way carry in to a hospital in Florida and I'll come visit you at the state pen. Its a felony and carries a mandatory three years sentence. PS -if you carry in some schools, government buildings, etc the same holds true.

 

[TailGator]

Either way carry in to a hospital in Florida and I'll come visit you at the state pen. Its a felony and carries a mandatory three years sentence.

I have heard it said that carry into a hospital is illegal in Florida, but I have not found hospitals named in the legislation. A citation would be helpful, if you have it.

 

[Minorcan]

Quote:
Either way carry in to a hospital in Florida and I'll come visit you at the state pen. Its a felony and carries a mandatory three years sentence.

I have heard it said that carry into a hospital is illegal in Florida, but I have not found hospitals named in the legislation. A citation would be helpful, if you have it.

It is under section F.S. 394.458. The logic is that mentally unstable people may be present and since most hospitals have a psychiatric unit that may be so. This is covered in "Florida Firearms Law, Use and Ownership" by Jon H. Gutmacher on page 113 of the Eighth Edition.

Brandishing and threatening with a gun is Aggravated Assault with a deadly weapon and is covered under section F.S. 784.021. It is a 3rd degree felony.

If you want to know more, the best resource for Florida s "Florida Firearms Law, Use and Ownership" by Jon H. Gutmacher. He is the best and most recognized expert on Florida Concealed Carry law.

Too many people recommend actions without considering the legal ramifications and how they can impact a persons life. I can't count how many times people say in a road rage incident just show them you weapon and they will go away. That may be true but they will probably report you and you will spend 3 years of mandatory jail time. The only time to draw your gun is when you are certain of grievous injury, bodily harm or death of you or a loved one.

If we are gong to Concealed carry we not only should know the law we must obey it or loose our right to do so and/or possibly our freedom.

 

[rickyrick]

Many hospitals are campuses as well.

 

[buck460XVR]

Please forgive the link dump here. I simply cannot believe the wasp spray myth refuses to die.

The suggestion for the can of wasp spray is not because of it's extreme effectiveness. Never was. It was a suggestion in a scenario of better than nothing. As in the OP's situation where her primary concern was getting into her building from the sidewalk. Not about defending herself from a gang of armed thugs. Wasp spray is designed to be very accurate up to 25 feet.....better than many entry level SD pocket pistols. Sprayed into the eyes/face of a assailant, it would certainly give them enough irritation and distraction for someone to get inside a building, behind a door or grab another weapon(like a chair) to hit them with, or to give others a chance to come and help. This is no myth. Actually is suggested for teachers in classrooms for use against armed intruders by our local LEO. Similar to throwing sand in someone's face in a street fight. Not as effective as Mace, or a gun or a knife? 'ell no, but in this scenario, none of those area allowed......either legally or by company policy.

Legal? Certainly is legal to buy, posses and carry in a bag into a work area for use later at home for those pesky little insects. It will not get you fired or arrested. If it's close when you are attacked and it saves your life, the legal process will be not much different than if you used deadly force, such as your legal SD gun.

 

[pax]

Yeah, just because you have a local LEO who's not up to speed on what works and what doesn't in self defense, does not make the wasp spray myth any less mythological.

pax

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I have heard it said that carry into a hospital is illegal in Florida, but I have not found hospitals named in the legislation. A citation would be helpful, if you have it.

It is under section F.S. 394.458. The logic is that mentally unstable people may be present and since most hospitals have a psychiatric unit that may be so. This is covered in "Florida Firearms Law, Use and Ownership" by Jon H. Gutmacher on page 113 of the Eighth Edition.

IANAL but this one seems to be a law that could be ripe for clarification through adjudication:

Title XXIX
PUBLIC HEALTH

Chapter 394
MENTAL HEALTH

394.458 Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.—
(1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:
1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;
2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.
(b) It is unlawful to transmit to, or attempt to transmit to, or cause or attempt to cause to be transmitted to, or received by, any patient of any hospital providing mental health services under this part any article or thing declared by this section to be contraband, at any place which is outside of the grounds of such hospital, except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of such hospital.
(2) A person who violates any provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
History.—s. 1, ch. 75-253; s. 201, ch. 77-147; s. 1, ch. 77-174; s. 6, ch. 96-169.

In discussing post office carry, where the prohibition in federal law has a "lawful purposes" exception, many have argued that carry pursuant to a government-issued license or permit is a lawful purpose. If I were to play devil's advocate I would be asking if having a State-issued concealed carry permit isn't considered "authorized by law." I suspect I'd lose if I were to test it, though, and I'm far too old and too poor to volunteer to become the test case.

 

[Mainah]

Bear spray is designed to be effective against a large aggressive mammal quickly. Wasp spray is designed to take out an insect nest safely. Can we at least agree that the spray debate ends there?

 

[kilimanjaro]

I have heard of federal employees who have lost their careers and pensions by carrying while at work. Being fired for cause from federal employment is something that will follow you around forever. And good luck making up the pension shortfall with social security, you weren't in the workforce. Your pension contributions refund won't make much money in the market, either. It's a massive lifestyle change, if you want to push the envelope.

Haven't heard of a single instance where a shooting event occurred at the locations where the employees got canned, either. The situation just didn't call for personal carry.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I carried everyday to work, then locked it up in the car. Work prohibited it anywhere on the property, so I never carried it in, but refused to not leave it locked in my car in the parking lot. Many were like that, as we left at nearly midnight to go in, through some creepy areas. Get caught with one in the building you were fired-zero tolerance. Parking lots were never checked, though, and there were some grey areas that could at least be argued about whose property the weapon was residing in. Luckily, as far as I know, for those who carry, it's never been tested.

 

[FITASC]

If you want to know more, the best resource for Florida s "Florida Firearms Law, Use and Ownership" by Jon H. Gutmacher. He is the best and most recognized expert on Florida Concealed Carry law.

Thanks! In the Amazon wish list for the wife to discover

I carried everyday to work, then locked it up in the car. Work prohibited it anywhere on the property, so I never carried it in, but refused to not leave it locked in my car in the parking lot. Many were like that, as we left at nearly midnight to go in, through some creepy areas. Get caught with one in the building you were fired-zero tolerance. Parking lots were never checked, though, and there were some grey areas that could at least be argued about whose property the weapon was residing in. Luckily, as far as I know, for those who carry, it's never been tested.

With only a few exceptions, FL allows someone to leave a car in the parking lot, even on private property. Some places fall under DHS compliance and are exempt - power plants, certain parts of ports, etc; otherwise you are not breaking any law.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

With only a few exceptions, FL allows someone to leave a car in the parking lot, even on private property. Some places fall under DHS compliance and are exempt - power plants, certain parts of ports, etc; otherwise you are not breaking any law.

Same with Michigan. I was not breaking any laws, but it could be argued by the company that I should be fired, and thereby lose my pension, etc. To me, and as I said, for many, this was worth the risk, and most likely the union would fight to save us on the not your property, but his aspect. At least that's what we all hoped. After all, the company never compensated you if somebody broke into your car while on their property. We figured they couldn't have their cake, and eat it too.