Carbine, it’s ammo, What do you have, use, and Why...

Sounds like you are in a pickle Blind.....I am in a wheelchair,so I have my own challenges,just somewhat different....The reason you can see the green laser easier that the red is because the human eye picks up the spectrum of green easier than any other other color......There is a company named Vector Optics that makes one of the brightest lasers available to the public on the market..! I wish I had of known about your issue,I had a brand new one,but decided not to use it to use it so I sold it......I would have given it to you if it would have helped you out...I like the idea someone else had of a Marlin 30-30....Easy to mount a laser on that.....Please let me know if you decide to go that or a similar route,I have a brand new barrel mount picatinny rail that will fit just about any rifle,and you could mount a laser on that.....You can have it for free if it will help you out...! Let me know how you make out and best of luck to you...:)
 
I continue to be ....

Overwhelmed… thanks. This is becoming quite the study for carbine selection and history, huh?

I replied late last night but it seems it was lost and did not post.... so if it duplicates with this post, please pardon it.


Hansam
RE - Sights:
….In the red/green dot area I'd recommend spending the money and getting an Aimpoint Pro or an Eotech sight but they're pricey …. On the lower cost side are Tru-Glo sights

I looked into the Aim Point red dot scope and watched the videos about them. Impressive. Have no idea on their costs however. I like ‘em.

Any optic I’d spend $$$ for apart from a light or LASER, WILL HAVE TO BE ONE I CAN PREVIEW ON A WEAPON. Period.

I’ve too many issues with vision to get one under advisement or speculation alone …. Unless there is a full refund policy, then if not satisfied. I’d be out only shipping costs if that. Or if it’s cheap, of course.

RE LASER
AGREED. A laser for me is merely a fast acquisition and point of aim in a SD situation.

Every home invasion I’ve endured or later, discovered in this past year occurred, came about in the dark. 3 times idiots attempted to gain entry to my little house in the hood while I was home! First time was 11.0p, another at 930p, and the last was around 815p.

A terrorizing shotgun blast immediately outside my bedroom windows came at 9p or so about a month ago.

2 or 3 other times were found out after the fact by evidence of broken windows or bent and scarred door jams.

I’m not a bad guy at all. I keep entirely to myself. Seldom am I outside, but I’m cordial and obliging when I am. It’s confounding except for the aspect of the new and ongoing influence of drugs. Crack. A dealer has moved into this community and the authorities knowing full well of who and what, do nothing. So far.. and response time is why I now have guns.; 12 minutes to 1 hour…. at last count.

I’ve since installed a monitored alarm system, motion sensitive exterior floods, and of course, some fire arms. The breakins have ceased, gratefully. Yet the emotional fallout remains.

Oil well, everyone has something to be concerned with, and the world about us has surely changed.

RE Truth box
That was enlightening! Not terribly surprising but an eye opener nonetheless.
This is too:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/40sw.html

I had a discussion with a friend of mine last night coming back from church. He’s a retired Army Colonel. 3 tours in Nam. He said about the two rifles, M16 & M14, the 556 round has trouble in mixed fields. Heavy tall grasses can deflect the projectile and put it off course. In open territories it is stunning how powerful it can be saying he saw a VC regular lose an arm following a dead on hit by one 556 round. Of the two rifles his personal pref was/is the M14.

Not having ever shot the M16 myself I remain in the dark on it’s prowess, yet having shot the M14’s 762 , and BAR, their firepower individually is an awesome thing in FA. In single shot too they bully their way into and thru some really tough stuff… including heavy tall grasses bushes weeds, car doors, home doors, and even some block walls with the 30 06. .

No doubt the 556 can penetrate! None. I recall a 22 slamming it’s way trhu a privacy fence, a coke bottle, and a framed house wall, and an into oven’s bottom drawer covering a distance of about 150 ft.!

Not sure if it was tumbling, but I sure did when it hit my oven! Right onto the floor and then I stumbhled around trying to get my 22, and hide behind the couch I was just laying on. Plinking cans off a privacy fence right across the street from me, with BB & pellet guns somehow became drab enough some bright eyed fool began to use a 22 instead! That was some decades back.


L Kinkenny
I’ll differ…

Point taken. I feel much of this rhetoric surrounds application ultimately. My plans always are to achieve the ‘most bang for the buck’, or as much purpose filling as possible. With self defense being the primary key, and fun coming in a distant second… though one can’t dismiss the latter, it is not the motivation here. In fact my circumstances prevail sufficiently so I much rather prefer to inflict as much damage with any near hit as I can, meaning big bullets are better usually… or that’s my philosophy.

The barrel length on a rifle muddies this perspective for it adds greater speed in the mix and makes smaller slugs far more formidable, and some are way less costly to pitch at paper fools time and again.

“They all hurt” has to be the underlying notion and can’t be discounted. But here again, its application first, fun second and costs of near fruitless ammo disposal, a close third. With that in mind, any of the pistol calibers work. 9, 357 (with it’s dual purpose 38spl), 45 & even the 40 SW, about in that order… IMHO.

I keep thinking, this will come to a coin toss… if 762 isn’t my first pick. If I were getting a FA? I’d have no issue getting it in 556. None. None at all.

That FBI stand in bullet has some severe ballistics and can be had in a good amount of mass with 180gr & 200gr slugs. Even its 135 & 155gr are more than adequate rounds… save for their availability and costs.

Stevie Ray
RE Beretta Storm carbine

I continue to like that piece… yet remain inticed by the abject versatility and options the AR platform announces.

“….or buy the Hi Point and rip off the stock”

Again, SR, the 10 rd mag bugs me a good bit… unless a work around or an after market outfit makes good replacement mags with double the capacity, or more.


Raven
You’re too kind. Thanks much. I’ll be just fine, one way or another.
 
I continue to like that piece… yet remain inticed by the abject versatility and options the AR platform announces.
Oh, make no mistake, I prefer the AR myself and have a Colt Tactical Carbine. It's just that the Hi-Point with ATI stock interests me and for very little money. That's why it is still on my list and should be on everyone's short list that's looking for at least a pistol-caliber carbine without breaking the bank.

An entry-level AR would be my first choice.
Check this one out:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/rifles/smith-wesson-m-p-sport-811036.html
 
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There are a lot of carbines you could consider. Much depends upon your budget, how much you shoot, what you want it to do, whether or not you reload, etc., etc. I've got 6 different kinds of carbines and in no particular order they are:

Rossi 357mag:

DSCN2830.jpg


RRA .223 middy:

DSCN2813.jpg


1943 NPM M1 30 Carbine that I don't shoot and a Auto Ordnance that I do (it's accurate as heck with 2" groups at 100yds doable by my son [better eyes]):

DSCN8779.jpg


Henry 22lr levergun:

100_7620-1.jpg


Couple of Ruger 22lr 10/22s:

100_0351.jpg


My Ugly Duckling, a Hi-Point 40 cal carbine I picked up for $100:

100_1117-1.jpg


They are all fun to shoot and all have their niche they fill perfectly. You haven't given yourself enough information about what you want your 'carbine' to be and you want it to do. When you answer those questions, you'll be much closer to deciding.
 
Nice pics.. good selection .... good points.

I know what I want it to do... how it does it is another story entirely, and there lays the issue for me.

Caliber? Style? Capacity? Optics? Design? Well in design I know I want a gas operated gun if possible. Semi auto for sure.

interesting, frustrating, and fun all at the same time. More or less. ;-)
 
I have owned 6, AR in 9mm. It was boring and got rid of it and traded it for an HK SLR-8. Then got one of the MAC-10’s with the long barrels. About as accurate as a slingshot. Then had a Hi point for 1 day and 50 rounds. I won’t start bashing Hi points here but I got rid of it as quickly as I could. Then a Ruger 44 mag carbine. Great little gun but accuracy was poor and soon got rid of it.
Then a Beretta Storm 9mm, still have it and it's had thousands of rounds and its one gun in my collection that I will NEVER get rid of,,, and I shoot it the most.
Next an MP-5 Clone. Always liked the MP-5, but in a semi auto with the long barrel it’s a very boring gun to shoot and has become something of a safe queen since no one seem interested in it for a trade.
If it’s a range plinker/fun gun you’re looking for, I would suggest 9mm for caliber since it’s so much cheaper than any rifle caliber and get the Beretta. It’s expensive, sure, but once you shoot one you’ll be happy you did.
I have AR’s, M1 carbines and a lot of other guns that I enjoy shooting but there is something about the Beretta, every time I go to the range it always seems to end up in the truck and puts a lot more rounds down range than any other gun that I own.
 
oZZ...


That's the first disparaging sentiment I've heard about the Hi Point carbine... apart from it's esthetics and ammo capacity.

I'm between these two... AR 15, and Beretta Storm .40 or .45... maybe... a 9MM. The way the Storm carbine mags are, 9MM appears the one with the mostest in them.

so if a Storm in 9mm or an AR 15 in 556. Not door busters, either one, but they ought to be pretty good at social work.

I'm also liking the Eotech sights. 512? Day/night.

So we're closing in on things. I'm awaiting info from a Eotech dealer currently.
 
OK, I just read all the posts here and there's a few things I think we can all agree on.

Any round will (with prehaps a few exceptions) have better performance out of a longer barrel. I don't care if it's a .22 LR from a pistol vs a 10/22, a .45 ACP in a 1911 vs a Marlin Camp 45, a .38S/357M or .44S/.44M from a revolver vs a lever gun, 5.56 in a M4 vs M 16 or a .308 in a Springfield SOCOM vs a M 14.

The definition of a "carbine" is open to debate but usually refers to a shorter barreled version of a rifle or a short barreled long arm chambered in a handgun round.

FWIW, it seems like you want to get something that's good for shorter range (HD/SD), that's versatile, powerful enough to fit the anticipated use/need, and not too costly. Here is something else for you to think about if you have not quite settled on something:

005.jpg


Top and center are Marlin Camp carbines in .45 ACP and 9mm. These take the same rounds and magazines as the 1911 .45 ACP single stack pistols and S&W 59 series 9mm pistols respectively. You need not worry about reloading issues when you have a mated sidearm and carbine as your spare mags fit either gun. Bottom is a Marlin lever gun in .44 magnum, but I think you stated that lever actions are out for you. It goes well with a like chambered revolver, as would a similar gun in .38/357.

Some of the other makers mentioned also have carbines in pistol chamberings that have magazine interchangability with certain handguns. You would have to check the specifics out for any weapon you are considering.
 
Guess I like to be a little different

A lot of people hate them because they aren't FA but I really like my Vector Uzi carbine. I have the wood stocked one, it shoots great, simple, reliable, proven, tons of parts out there.

9mm, of course. Have been shooting the Winchester 124 GR +P NATO Spec ammo. I just use it as a plinker but you can out a Dr. Optic or a Fastfire II and have it co-witness with the iron sights.

It's just a really cool, fun, reliable gun, I am very glad I bought it. Oh, yeah, it's a beast too as far as weight, I think it is around 9lbs but that makes it the perfect wife, kid, girlfriend, first time shooter friend gun, almost no recoil. Everyone likes to shoot the Uzi. Surprisingly accurate for what it is as well.

Also have an AR pistol being built and own a Windham SRC carbine in 5.56 too. Those are more "serious" than the Uzi but honestly not as fun to shoot.
 
Back to reality huh? Thanks.

Thanks for the reality check. I appreciate it.

I’m often grounded in practicality. Needs based. No glitz or glammor. Albeit, it doesn’t mean I don’t want such things. Neither am I an avid shooter any more. My brand new FNH FNP 45T although sitting loaded and laying on the nightstand or nearby me here and there, still hasn’t seen a round pass through it since I brought it home almost a month ago.

That will change this week as a friend asked me if I wanted to do some shooting this coming week… naturally, I jumped at the opportunity.

Infrequent at best, my range occasions likely won’t change by much going forward. History says maybe 3 or 4 times a year I’ll hit the range for a few hours. Consequently and quite possibly, none of my current guns are even well broken in yet and I’ve had them almost a year. That should be aginst the law!

I’d like very much for that frequency to change… and for things to become something more, to that end, I’ll have to acquire better aiming solutions for the FNP 45 T, and this latest ??? rifle. Otherwise, I’m merely ensureing functionality and familiarity, and having little fun in the doing of it all.

Standing there just blasting away at a paper torso 10 – 30ft away, isn’t my idea of real shooting fun

Firing open SIGHTS ONLY NOT LONG AGO, A , an FNH 5.7 AND HITTING THE SIX INCH TARGET AT 30FT A COUPLE TIMES SHOWED ME I’M STILL ABLE TO GET IT THERE BY RELYING ON past TRAINING AND TECHNIQUES ALMOST ENTIRELY. An aiming aid such as the Eotech or even a green laser (although cheating IMO) would add in a higher quotient of fun, I’m sure.

Adding such a device also adds cost. That sucks for me…. As it forestalls my acquiring this new desire. I’m almost sold totally on going with the .40SW caliber though. The platform I had in mind is the AR 15. ON what level? Again, it gives me some pause. Perhaps looking into the pre-owned market would be a good idea rather than spreading for a new rifle… or even building one.

All of that said, just having an AR 15 in one’s hands, brings a fairly large grin factor along with it. You can’t get past it’s esthetics presenting itself as just way cool. Ie., same for the M4, but I don’t know if I can get away with so short a barrel as a 14 incher.

That “Oh, so cool looking” bit is the hook that promotes me into avidly seeking one out.

One thing for sure is I need to shoot these M4 & AR 15 platforms so I know WHICH DIRECTION I’D PREFER TO GO.

I might very well wind up with a Marlin or something in that ‘camp gun’ ilk. Anyone still making an M1 style carbine in .40 or .45? WITH A RAIL?
 
Its been 15 or 20 years back,I guess,AIM had 7.62x39 for $69 a thousand,so when I saw a Norinco SKS 16 in bbl carbine NIB for $79,I bought it.

It was actually a pretty good little "volksrifle"

I have had a few M-1 carbines,still have one.I really enjoy clanking away with one...

I used to get 93 gr Norma .308 dia 30 Luger bullets ,softpoints with a silver jacket.Seems like I used 2400 for powder.There was an abundance of jackrabbits back then.I think we have more coyotes now.They would make trauma.

But,for my money,at the price of M-1carbine ammo,and the price of M-1carbines,I'd look to an M-4,or a Mini-14,or an SKS carbine,myself.I also have to agree the pistol cartridge lever actions are fun.

Oh,to the comment that folks had their safeties off in the pix....while I can appreciate being safe,it occurs to me that folks may decide to let the rifle have the hammer uncocked while it sleeps.Clearing the chamber and dropping the hammer would not allow having the safety on.

Safeties are OK,use them,but I choose to not let the safety be what makes the firearm safe.
 
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Mini 14 ought to be inm the hunt, shouldn't it?

How about the Ruger Mini 14 tactical ???

or someone else' Mini 14 ??

or simply, the Rock River A4 (?) in 6.8MM?

I believe I'm over the notion of having a rifle that shoots a pistol round.

The Ruger Mini 14 comes in 556; 6.8; and 7.62.

series 580 and/or 581 I think. Just saw it this morning.

Even a non tactical (Ranch) goes with an 18.5 barrel in 7.62

1/10 twist too I believe for both rifles... Rock river & Ruger... gee that's a lot of 'R's!!

Anyone know more on these rifles? Accuracy? Reliable? AFFORDABLE? WHERE?

or if anyone has more info on the middle child "6.8mm" ammo, that would help too.

Are these new RR & Ruger 14s worth owning? Or is there a better valued solution still?

Honestly, I'm bogged down in the AR race. I'm finding a ready rolled nice piece running around a grand or a tad better. Making it about a $1500 - $1600 buy in with bag and Eotech optics.

.;..and I want something harder hitting than the 556.

Any thoughts on these two makes?

Many Thanks.
 
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Way of the Carbine...

Armed Citizens,

I am disabled...:(

As a paraplegic, w/a very martial mentality for over 25 years, I have spent the last 15 years + finding the perfect carbine!:eek:

I feel that for my very specific needs the new Ruger RS22 does it all!!!:p

Its light weight @ 5lbs...

Its short barreled @ "16" w/a threaded flash hider...

Its a true "black rifle" in every way...

Its able to mount my: Eotech optic, forward grip, flip up trijicon iron sights, single point tactical sling attachment, rubber pistol grip, 6 position collapsible stock, etc...

Its shoots any and all 22LR like a true tac-driver!:)

Its an updated 10/22 trigger assembly (so ya know it will work forever) in a very dressed up "tactical" Ruger package...

I like it better than any other 10/22LR black rifle on the market...

IMHO, for less than $550 its a winner!!!

OH yeah, It also feeds all of my 50 round polymer drums, my 25 round banana clips, my 10 round factory & aftermarkets too, if its a Ruger type mag it will cycle flawlessly steel or plastic lips be damned... :D

"I'd rather have a gun and not need it; than need a gun and not have it"...
-Christian Slater "True Romance" 1992
 
Sun Tzu

Very cool. Congrats! Great rig and outstanding movie. Sounds like a Hunk a hunk of burnin' fire man!

If I could have the funds... I'd likely have opted for the SR 556... and made an exception to my no 22's rule.. big or small. At $2K that outfit just ain't happening for me.

Again, congrats. Be well... tanks for the input.
 
I have a few Carbines, my favorite is chambered for .308 Win, its a Ruger M77 Frontier.
I also have a Jungle Carbine, chambered in 303 Brittish, its not original, could be concitered a Fake, but its an awesome gun.

My Daughter uses a Springfield 840 chambered in 30 30 Win, it sports a Redfield Revoloution 2x7x33 Scope, and is very light and accurate, it could be concitered a carbine.

Ive killed a pile of game with the Ruger Frontier, to me its a perfect back country Carbine, Rugged and reliable.

OOPS,
Sorry I forgot to tell you why I like the cartridges that my Carbines are chambered in.
On the Ruger I I like the .308 because I can use the Nato 7.62x51 and have it digest both no problem. Common ammo and I do believe that .30 Calliber is perfect for hunting Deer and Wild hogs.

The .303 much of the Same, just that it holds Ten Rounds, is simple and built to withstand battlefield conditions, bolt action few moving parts should be simple and reliable.

The 30 30 my Daughter uses, again 30 Calliber, light recoil, good for hunting Deer, very light and handy. These are my reasons, I like the Punch of a .30 Calliber Rifle, and prefer the Rugged Simplicity of a Bolt Action.
 
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My carbine is my Daniel Defense M4V1 in .223 / 5.56. It's a 16" mil-spec AR-15. Very lightweight, handy, and reliable. Loaded with Hornady TAP 75-grain due to the 1:7 barrel twist. I didn't want to roll my own AR-15 like most do, I wanted a higher-end, complete-package rifle with a company to stand behind it. I think the DDM4 has treated me very well.
 
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