Canton OH Police CCW Holder Encounter

Status
Not open for further replies.
right or wrong, some LEOs have a habit of putting fear in people's minds w/threats about I better not see you around here or whatever
Click to expand...

Sure. But I've seen first hand what kind of hell a crooked cop can put somebody through when they decide to thoroughly screw with a specific person. De-tangling the aftermath of such an event was what got me involved in the RKBA in the first place, back in 1996.

I will not live with or tolerate that class of threat.
 
Originally posted by Jim March
Quote:
While we don't know exactly why the DA has not brought charges against Harless at this time, I think it's pretty safe to say that lack of evidence is not that reason.
Sorry, but the "why isn't Harless charged?" question is easy to understand: to avoid giving additional help to the inevitable civil suit to follow.
Click to expand...

You may very well be right, but we can't say for sure. It is possible that, for whatever reason, the CCL holder has not filed a criminal complaint against Harless at this time. Bart's previous post on the subject (which I have no reason to doubt) would seem to indicate that the CCL holder would have to file such a complaint in order to get the ball rolling. Since we don't know whether or not such a complaint has been filed, I'm hesitant to attempt to draw a definitive conclusion as to why Harless has been neither charged nor arrested yet.

Originally posted by youngunz4life
but I think many an officer will get the hint to leave this guy alone in the future(otherwise they will attract unwanted trouble).
Click to expand...

Maybe, but given this particular officers apparent comfort with such behavior in front of a camera and his previous history of such behavior, I wouldn't count on it. At this point, it seems to me that the only way to guarantee that the CCL holder won't be harassed by Harless in the future is to ensure that Harless no longer has employment as an LEO.

one other thing - right or wrong, some LEOs have a habit of putting fear in people's minds w/threats about I better not see you around here or whatever
Click to expand...

I've noticed that too, but this particular incident is a mite different. Most of the time I've seen or heard an LEO make such a statement, it simply consists of "I'd better not see you here again" or "I'd better not have to come back here again". The "or I'll fill in the blank" part is usually left intentionally vauge or unstated. Most people do not question such threats/warnings because they either don't fully understand exactly what a police officer can and cannot legally do or because they simply don't want to provoke the officer. Harless, however, specifically threatened to illegally harass the CCL holder just for being seen. The old "I'd better not see you around here again" statement give a cop plausible deniability because he doesn't specifically threaten to do anything, but Harless's threats were not nearly so vauge.
 
Sure. But I've seen first hand what kind of hell a crooked cop can put somebody through when they decide to thoroughly screw with a specific person. De-tangling the aftermath of such an event was what got me involved in the RKBA in the first place, back in 1996.
Click to expand...

I can sympathize with that.

I will not live with or tolerate that class of threat.
Click to expand...

that is the key, and I agree with this.
 
It will be interesting to see what, if anything is posted about the court appearance today.

We have another hot story going on that might overshadow the news locally. A few miles from my house some wacko got into a family type arguement, killed his girlfriend, shot 8 others, killing 7 more including a 17 yr old girl and a 11 yr old boy before he was killed after shooting at police.
 
You can be guaranteed that every Canton official that has seen this video has an excuse, or 'wiggle room' as to why the city/prosecuting attorney has not brought criminal charges against Harless.

I will not questions Barts comment as to 'its usually the victim that has to file the complaint' , thats good legal advice, but in talking to an acquaintance in our city att'y office, I also found that there's exception to that rule.

If there's concrete evidence that an LEO has commited a criminal act, this evidence is submitted to the PA and he/she reviews it to determine if the evidence is sufficient to bring criminal charges against the LEO.
Example: a video showing an LEO robbing a bank or commiting any crime.



If PA determines there is sufficient evidence, not only can the PA bring these criminal charges, but is obligated to do so. Regardless of who gets fired,goes to jail, cost or embarrassment that will result.

In this case, not only did the PA review the film,too, probably every one of Cantons LE brass that are sworn to uphold the law, they apparently did not see enough evidence(must be blind) of a blatant criminal act by Harless to prosecute. They apparently also felt that they were dealing with someone stupid enough(referring to CHL holder) to accept some kind of bogus deal. Had this deal that was originally offered by the PA been accepted by the CHL holder, you and I would have never been the wiser to any of this happening and this 'loose cannon' LEO would still be out on the street....and yes, with Harless's attitude displayed in the video, Canton City Council Pres. Schulman's statement that "someone is going to get killed", would have probably been correct.

IMO. the City of Canton was in a 'damned if you do-damned if you don't' situation when it came to reviewing this tape as to whether they should have filed criminal charges or wait till the victim files them.

Before this 'so-called' deal was offered to the CHL holder, I'm sure there were more than a few behind the scene meetings with Cantons brass including the mayor,safety director,chief of police and prosecuting attorney discussing how to proceed. There's no doubt in my mind that before the offer was made, all involved reviewed the film and discussed the situation then proceeded from there with the deal offer.

IMO, 'THE DEAL' was a gamble they made that turned out to be bad mojo for them. To many people just rollover and won't fight city hall. They just didn't expect the CHL holder to go the route he did and I guarantee you, they didn't expect this case to get any attention let alone the national attention its getting. At minimal, very embarrassing for Cantons leaders and overall, not good for an already financially struggling smallish city. This ones gonna cost em.

I know that if I were in the CHL holders shoe's, I would have a huge concern at this stage of the game in getting this whole mess prosecuted fairly in Canton. I'm sure he's discussed this with his counsel.

Also, when victim sue's the City of Canton, I'd like to hear the explanation to the judge by the PA, Safety Director and Chief of Police as to why they didn't see sufficient evidence in the tape to arrest Harless from the onset. I'm sure they'll have one and I can picture the judge listening as he looks over his glasses at them. Hope the PA has a good enough excuse and the judge buys it or the PA can be facing some charges of his own.

This is going to get interesting for everyone involved....unless of course the City of Canton and the CHL holder comes to some kind of 'out of court' agreement in the meantime. IMO, he's got'em by the shorthairs and it depends on how hard he wants to tug.
 
Last edited:
Good Post Shortwave. It made good sense. Especially the part about the PA being obligated to bring charges. I keep going over that and over that in my mind since this whole thing happened. My dad and my dad's dad actually always said to me from the time I was little," right is right and wrong is wrong." It's usually pretty easy to tell the difference. Every step of the way someone must of not only had the opportunity to do what was right, but had to be obligated to do so. Why didn't his partner stop him? Why didn't the chief of police arrest him? Why didn't the city councel president have him arrested? Where the heck is the DA or law director, sebatical? To paraphrase the OFCC, this is the worst case of civil rights abuse in recent history. There has to be a manual that says if this happens this is what you do, and even if it isn't specific, you can rest assure it's not so vague that these people don't understand their obligations. If the mayor is the highest authority in the city and he won't do what's correct then does it not go to the state level. Rep, Govener, who ever is next in line. There needs to be a state or federal investigation on this and everyone who's covering these crimes is just as guilty as the officer, and in my mind have help create him. They should be in the cell with him and bubba and the soap.

I don't know, I guess because this is right in my back yard, and because I've never seen such a display of abused power (except on TV) I just never wanted to face this kind of thing actually happens. It could have been you or me, only with my luck there wouldn't of been a video tape.
 
I think what this whole thing shows to the public is just how far some government officials will go to elude what seems to be blatant to the rest of us.

I know alot of LE and don't know one that has a good thing to say about a defense attorney. Every one of them are tired of criminals getting off charges due to some kind of small legal glitch or some kind of minor questionable error made by someone on the prosecuting side. Some criminals are turned loose before the LEO has his paperwork done. I understand that mindset by most LEO's. Have it myself for the most part.

That does not excuse the attitude of Harless nor should it impede the decisions of officials when dealing with an employee that clearly got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

I'm sure there are a few in Canton that have the , 'strike one up for the good guys' attitude in regards to the PA not pursueing criminals charges against Harless. I see what they did as no better than a defense attorney getting a guilty person off criminal charges on a technicality.

The difference in this case being, like I stated before, I believe the way this was handled was not in a way that was right but in a way that the city officials thought it best to try to make the whole thing go away quietly...and you'd be surprised to know how many times deals are struck and the public never is aware of anything ever happening.

There's an old saying amongst gov't employees, "if the public only knew".
Many times thats the case.

The average citizen can't even begin to imagine how much of their tax dollars are paid out in a years time in out-of-court settlements in various cases that are not publicized. Not only are some of these cases not publicized but powerful figures make it a point to keep these cases from going public. People that will tell you this does not happen are extremely naive and have never worked for the gov'n.

Again, I think that thats a very good possiblity of what took place here.
Things just didn't go as planned by Canton city officials and snowballed with everything going as public as it did.

I don't know what makes me angrier...what Harless did or what officials did/didn't do afterwards... but thats another topic.

My speculation to date would be that Harless's career in LE is done and either the City of Canton is going to be able to strike an out-of-court settlement with CHL holder or this will go to court. Either way,its going to be very costly for Canton. Also if all parties can come to an out-of-court agreement, I'd be willing to bet there will be stipulations in the agreement that the amount of money agreed on is to be and remain 'undisclosed'. Which if that happens, as often does, IMO, should be against the law because the settlement is paid with you and I's city tax dollars:mad:.
 
Last edited:
Has anyone seen anything further on this. It just seems to have gone away.

Did the CCW holder file an action against the officer or department?

Is there something else about the CCW holder that we weren't being told that has caused this to settle into the dust?

Surely there is more to this than Bang! Pffft. Nuthin!
 
thanx for update...basically it is pending but delay helps driver and the pending stuff is robably a major reason. interesting that LE was on admin leave first - that is paid leave as well.
 
Davey,

Thank you for the update....also you can save your time and dime in calling the Canton PD trying to inquire about the progress of the case.

The response you will most likely get is the same one I got when I called:
" We cannot at this time comment on the case as its currently being investigated".

This is basically the same results you'll get from any Canton official regarding the incident if you're lucky enough to get one on the phone. At least that has been my experience especially after the statements made by Coucil Pres. Schulman were made and drew so much heat throughout the Ohio and the rest of the states.

Guess all we can do is wait and watch at this point.:cool:
 
This has turned into a travesty of justice. The city of Canton is pushing forward with their case against the CCW holder, and there still is no word on any arrest or disaplinary action against the officer. I cannot begin to comprehend what is going on. I'm going to stop here before I say something I'll regret.
 
The city of Canton is pushing forward with their case against the CCW holder.....I cannot comprehend what is going on.
Click to expand...

Its simple. The CCW holder refused to play 'Lets Make a Deal' from the onset with the city officials. They know they are going to get sued regardless of whether they pursue charges or not so they(city officials) are rolling the dice that they MAY get a judge to convict ccw holder. They don't have much to lose at this point.

The people of Canton need to request speaker slips at the city council meetings and swarm those meetings in droves demanding to be heard and expressing their disdain of the way their city tax dollars are being and going to be spent.

I'm sure there are some serious justifiable cases the city prosecutors office could be working on rather than spending the time and tax dollars that will be spent on this one just trying to save face.
 
yeah, they're trying to call this guy's buff and make him plea at court(maybe w/less than they have already offered). Hopefully this guy has a good lawyer...I'm guessing he isn't too well-off. If I were him and I had a good lawyer, I would fight it and have my day in court.
 
I do not believe the city will let this go to trial. They have been humiliated enough, from their perspective. This officer's behavior, the circumstances of the case, the video, and the officer's personnel history doom the case, IMO.
 
This case is like a slow-motion train wreck. Could Canton's City Council possibly get any stupider? Yeah, let's have a jury trial! Let's get Officer Harless on the stand! I'd love to see SAF on this one!

If they want this to go away they are doing everything they possibly could to see that it doesn't, and not in the way they would like.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top