secret_agent_man
Moderator
Canton, Ohio PD has seen a bad cop in the ranks before:
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4283804&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4283804&page=1
Canton OH Police CCW Holder Encounter
- Thread starter ltc444
- Start date
- Status
On behalf of all Ohio citizens that believe in and fight for the rights the Second Amendment allows us all....
....Thank You .... for the emails and phone calls you've made in regards to the situation at hand.
Would like to also address the comment Schulman made in his comments aired on the radio.
Schulman stated that he told an Arizona caller, "Your next", referring to cc laws as they currently stand in Ohio and many other states.
He's right.
Only in the sense that if we as citizens don't let our feelings/thoughts be well known when a situation like this occurs, WE MIGHT BE NEXT.
We might be the next person to have our rights stepped on by some rogue/burnout cop. Arrested for no reason other than screw ups by the persons sworn to serve us that didn't do their job correctly.
Again, Thank for the support
PS . Canton City Council Pres. Allen Schulman can be reached directly at:
330-492-5409-this is his direct line which has been put on a Do Not Call List, imagine that
. Maybe he doesn't like some of the calls he's been recieving. But if you call this number and leave your name/number on his answering machine he promises to call you back. We'll see.
or
330-456-4400
330-489-3223 If you call these numbers and ask for Allen Schulman, they will give you the 330-492-5409 number which is on the Do Not Call List.
. Kinda makes me thinks some call screening may be going on.
PSS. For all Canton residents believing in the Const. of the United States. Don't know if your City Council President is appointed or elected, but its my understanding that Schulmans term is up at the end of 2011.
Per his comments aired on the radio concerning his beliefs in the Second Amendment, if the city council pres. seat is an elected one, now is the time to prepare on getting this guy unseated.
....Thank You .... for the emails and phone calls you've made in regards to the situation at hand.
Would like to also address the comment Schulman made in his comments aired on the radio.
Schulman stated that he told an Arizona caller, "Your next", referring to cc laws as they currently stand in Ohio and many other states.
He's right.
Only in the sense that if we as citizens don't let our feelings/thoughts be well known when a situation like this occurs, WE MIGHT BE NEXT.
We might be the next person to have our rights stepped on by some rogue/burnout cop. Arrested for no reason other than screw ups by the persons sworn to serve us that didn't do their job correctly.
Again, Thank for the support
PS . Canton City Council Pres. Allen Schulman can be reached directly at:
330-492-5409-this is his direct line which has been put on a Do Not Call List, imagine that
. Maybe he doesn't like some of the calls he's been recieving. But if you call this number and leave your name/number on his answering machine he promises to call you back. We'll see.or
330-456-4400
330-489-3223 If you call these numbers and ask for Allen Schulman, they will give you the 330-492-5409 number which is on the Do Not Call List.
. Kinda makes me thinks some call screening may be going on.PSS. For all Canton residents believing in the Const. of the United States. Don't know if your City Council President is appointed or elected, but its my understanding that Schulmans term is up at the end of 2011.
Per his comments aired on the radio concerning his beliefs in the Second Amendment, if the city council pres. seat is an elected one, now is the time to prepare on getting this guy unseated.
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I always view (but not excuse) this kind of thing like I did when I worked in customer service. Nobody ever called to tell you about how great their (insert widget here) was working. They never let you know that everything was going fine. But when one of the (insert widget here) was defective, you got an earful.
Now, I say this, not to criticize anybody for giving us an earful (or, in this case, an eyeful, too) because this particular act of utter unprofessionalism deserves to be hollered to the heavens. I say it to point out that there are legions of officers, troopers and agents out there who are a credit to their profession. But since we expect that of them, we don't get up on a soapbox and crow about it. That's probably as it should be.
Anyway, I also want to add that that was one of the most uncomfortable videos that I've ever watched. And as utterly out of control as the officer appeared, the citizen who was arrested seemed to go well out of his way to prevent an already outrageous situation from getting even more out of hand. Well done to him.
Now, I say this, not to criticize anybody for giving us an earful (or, in this case, an eyeful, too) because this particular act of utter unprofessionalism deserves to be hollered to the heavens. I say it to point out that there are legions of officers, troopers and agents out there who are a credit to their profession. But since we expect that of them, we don't get up on a soapbox and crow about it. That's probably as it should be.
Anyway, I also want to add that that was one of the most uncomfortable videos that I've ever watched. And as utterly out of control as the officer appeared, the citizen who was arrested seemed to go well out of his way to prevent an already outrageous situation from getting even more out of hand. Well done to him.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
A video of a previous arrest by Officer Harless surfaced. In this video, he makes several of the same threats and uses some of the same language from the CHL video. However, the big difference here is that the suspects are not CHLs and there is a gun on the floor of the vehicle and the profanity and threats are made during the arrest.
http://www.cantonrep.com/newsnow/x2...er-Harless-loses-his-temper-on-another-arrest
In the more recent incident with the CHL, the CHL is complying with orders and handcuffed in the back of the squad car when the profanity and threats go on.
Either way, I'd guess Officer Harless is going to be looking for a new line of work soon. He is going to be almost impossible to hire from a liability perspective and from an arrest perspective, a lot of his cases are going to suffer.
http://www.cantonrep.com/newsnow/x2...er-Harless-loses-his-temper-on-another-arrest
In the more recent incident with the CHL, the CHL is complying with orders and handcuffed in the back of the squad car when the profanity and threats go on.
Either way, I'd guess Officer Harless is going to be looking for a new line of work soon. He is going to be almost impossible to hire from a liability perspective and from an arrest perspective, a lot of his cases are going to suffer.
As a former LEO and Training Officer (Part Time), It appears to me that the officer in question should be under investigation for a battery of criminal charges.
I believe that an active effort should made to demand the Prosecutor file charges against the individual in question.
The Officers actions and build suggest to me that he might have had a ROID RAGE incident.
I believe that an active effort should made to demand the Prosecutor file charges against the individual in question.
The Officers actions and build suggest to me that he might have had a ROID RAGE incident.
Ohio's Channel 4 News and HLN(HeadLine News)has today had on both original vid. of the CHL holder arrest and the vid. B.Roberts referred to. Both have been shown repeatedly.
Canton Ohio residents as well as Ohioans for Concealed Carry are calling on the Canton City officials to terminate Harless at once.
Canton Ohio residents as well as Ohioans for Concealed Carry are calling on the Canton City officials to terminate Harless at once.
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Hitthespot
New member
Originally posted by Itc444 "I believe that an active effort should made to demand the Prosecutor file charges against the individual in question."
While many emails were sent to the head of the Canton City Councel, "Shullman", as a resident of Ohio, my email went to the law director of Canton doing exactly that. I asked that he did what needed and had to be done. I have family and friends who are officers and have much respect for their work, so watching this video is extremely painful. It's hard to believe it's real, and yet nothing to date has really been done. The Officer being on leave to me is like saying he's on vacation.
I had a good friend one time going through a divorce. He stopped by the house to pick up a few things and got in an argument with this wife. It got heated and he said, " I should beat the snot out of you." He was / is a peacful person and just got caught up in the moment. He said he was sorry and regretted saying it the minute it left his lips. HOWEVER, she called the police and he was picked up and jailed for his remarks. This officer repeatedly threatened to kill this person, it's clearly caught on tape, and people are outraged. HOW can he not be arrested by now. Somthing smells like fish. Time to place an FBI office in Canton.
I sure am loosing faith in the system, and as a CCW holder, if there is this kind of stigma out there, lord forbid if I ever have to use my weapon. If so I hope there is a video tape. Wait a minute that may not help either, I mean has the charges been dropped. NO.
Rant mode: Off
While many emails were sent to the head of the Canton City Councel, "Shullman", as a resident of Ohio, my email went to the law director of Canton doing exactly that. I asked that he did what needed and had to be done. I have family and friends who are officers and have much respect for their work, so watching this video is extremely painful. It's hard to believe it's real, and yet nothing to date has really been done. The Officer being on leave to me is like saying he's on vacation.
I had a good friend one time going through a divorce. He stopped by the house to pick up a few things and got in an argument with this wife. It got heated and he said, " I should beat the snot out of you." He was / is a peacful person and just got caught up in the moment. He said he was sorry and regretted saying it the minute it left his lips. HOWEVER, she called the police and he was picked up and jailed for his remarks. This officer repeatedly threatened to kill this person, it's clearly caught on tape, and people are outraged. HOW can he not be arrested by now. Somthing smells like fish. Time to place an FBI office in Canton.
I sure am loosing faith in the system, and as a CCW holder, if there is this kind of stigma out there, lord forbid if I ever have to use my weapon. If so I hope there is a video tape. Wait a minute that may not help either, I mean has the charges been dropped. NO.
Rant mode: Off
He gets due process just like everybody else. Don't forget the Police Department in Canton has a contract with the police union there. I imagine that nothing serious can be done till he gets his due process taken care of and he is found guilty of not following policy or some other charge. The contract is there to protect the good cops from unfounded complaints also.
Justice ain't pefect here sometimes. I will take it over what comes in second place though.
Justice ain't pefect here sometimes. I will take it over what comes in second place though.
Hitthespot
New member
He may get due process, but it is in no way shape or form like "everybody else". That was the point of my little divorce story above. Let me threaten to kill someone, tape it, then call the police, see how long it takes me to be arrested. I'm no law expert but I'm guessing same day, maybe same hour. I sure wouldn't be sent on vacation. lol
The state of Ohio says he is to be held to a higher standard because he is an officer. He is not even being held to regular standards if you ask me. It appears all politics, and in my opinion, so far, it stinks.
Maybe I'm seeing different than everyone else.
The state of Ohio says he is to be held to a higher standard because he is an officer. He is not even being held to regular standards if you ask me. It appears all politics, and in my opinion, so far, it stinks.
Maybe I'm seeing different than everyone else.
As does every PD I know of in the country but a union contract in no way supercedes the law.
The union is only there to represent both officers in the departmental charges that should(and probably will) be placed against both officers for the procedures officers didn't use at the onset of the stop. Then there should be more departmental charges for not clearing the car before the officer climbs in the back seat. Then there should be departmental charges of "actions un- becoming an officer" which the union can step in and fight.
Criminal charges should have been filed but instead the prosecutors office tried to strike a deal to drop charges on the guy that was arrested if he wouldn't sue the City of Canton.
Don't know if he has yet but the driver ought to be pressing the charges himself and requesting to the courts that this case be moved from Cantons jurisdiction. Doesn't sound like the prosecutor wants to play fair.
Not so sure about that Hitthespot...but the wheels turn slow. Apparently, in this case, even if your proof is the PD video. Who knows, this guy and his att'y may be discussing an 'out of court' settlement for all we know. Won't be the first time.
Dennis1209
New member
If it were not for the video, who do you think would believe what happened? In court I certainly would take the word of LE over a defendant because it is assumed they are held to a higher standard. Fortunately, IMO, I believe that police department is the exception and not the rule. I say police department because his partner was so nonchalant about his non-professionalism. How would all of you reacted had you been the recipient of his tirade? Had it been me, in my younger years, I might of got his bullet in my head
youngunz4life
New member
the union or 'legal team' for the dept, agency, whatever only will back him and/or protect him if he acted "within the scope of his employment"
BG's, prisoners, etc sue the good guys all the time and it is not given a 2nd thought by the suee because there are things in place to thwart it but not when one is out of bounds. they probably haven't made their decision but I agree, why should this prosecutor be the decider(if he is)?!
BG's, prisoners, etc sue the good guys all the time and it is not given a 2nd thought by the suee because there are things in place to thwart it but not when one is out of bounds. they probably haven't made their decision but I agree, why should this prosecutor be the decider(if he is)?!
At no time did I intend to imply that due process should not be followed. Nor did I intend to insult the honest and hardworking LEOs which place their lives on the line 24/7.
What I would like to see in every department and jurisdiction, is Officers being held accountable for their actions under the law.
In this case, the officers actions appear to go beyond what can be handled by an administrative process. Had a citzen been videoed making the same "threats", that citzen would have been arrested and be facing serious charges.
The officer in question must stand before the bar of justice and be judged by a jury of his fellow citzens.
The city of Canton will also be judged and in due course be held accountable.
What I would like to see in every department and jurisdiction, is Officers being held accountable for their actions under the law.
In this case, the officers actions appear to go beyond what can be handled by an administrative process. Had a citzen been videoed making the same "threats", that citzen would have been arrested and be facing serious charges.
The officer in question must stand before the bar of justice and be judged by a jury of his fellow citzens.
The city of Canton will also be judged and in due course be held accountable.
Everybody gets due process in this nation. You are presumed innocent until found guilty.
Its not a perfect system.
I bet if you ever have to have your day in court you want the same rights as the officer who committed the misdeeds.
That same system PROTECTS the good Cops who do the right thing.
Its not a perfect system.
I bet if you ever have to have your day in court you want the same rights as the officer who committed the misdeeds.
That same system PROTECTS the good Cops who do the right thing.
Eghad, ltc44's point is that due process does not imply immunity from normal criminal charges that anybody else would have faced.
Officer Harless should be receiving due process, as defined by the departmental agreement with the union, for interdepartmental charges.
He should be receiving due process, as defined by the 4th and 5th Amendments and applicable state of Ohio laws, for those actions that went beyond inappropriate and met the gate for criminal charges.
Officer Harless should be receiving due process, as defined by the departmental agreement with the union, for interdepartmental charges.
He should be receiving due process, as defined by the 4th and 5th Amendments and applicable state of Ohio laws, for those actions that went beyond inappropriate and met the gate for criminal charges.
Stressfire
New member
At the very least he should be charged and arraigned, immediately.
Had I, or any civilian, behaved that way and said what he did WITH A LOADED WEAPON ON OUR HIP, we would at the very least be spending the evening in a cell with Bubba attempting to protect the sanctity of our rears with nothing but a bar of soap and a pillow case.
He should be afforded THAT due process, because that is what a civilian would be entitled to.
Had I, or any civilian, behaved that way and said what he did WITH A LOADED WEAPON ON OUR HIP, we would at the very least be spending the evening in a cell with Bubba attempting to protect the sanctity of our rears with nothing but a bar of soap and a pillow case.
He should be afforded THAT due process, because that is what a civilian would be entitled to.
I cannot comprehend that such an officer would not be fired, and charged. He appears to think this is Nazi Germany and he is a member of the Gestapo.
I also fault his partner. There is a limit as to what a partner should tolerate.
In addition LEOs should be held to higher standards of conduct, and LANGUAGE than the average citizen. I wish I could be on the jury if he is tried.
I have kin in LE, and personally know a fair number of LEOs, including Chiefs. None would tolerate such actions.
Now let's see what Canton, OH folks do about it.
Jerry
I also fault his partner. There is a limit as to what a partner should tolerate.
In addition LEOs should be held to higher standards of conduct, and LANGUAGE than the average citizen. I wish I could be on the jury if he is tried.
I have kin in LE, and personally know a fair number of LEOs, including Chiefs. None would tolerate such actions.
Now let's see what Canton, OH folks do about it.
Jerry
This is getting interesting:
http://www.timesreporter.com/news_mobile/x1217539546/Gun-group-calls-for-Schulman-Harless-to-resign
TimesRepoter.com (Dover-New Philadelphia, Ohio)
Posted Jul 28, 2011 @ 12:55 PM
Gun group calls for Schulman, Harless to resign
http://www.timesreporter.com/news_mobile/x1217539546/Gun-group-calls-for-Schulman-Harless-to-resign
TimesRepoter.com (Dover-New Philadelphia, Ohio)
Posted Jul 28, 2011 @ 12:55 PM
Gun group calls for Schulman, Harless to resign
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