Candidates meet the NRA

Do citizens have to show a need before buying a gun, or is Rudy proposing that Congress impose on the nation a standard more strict than the one in the state of New York?
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New York State pistol permit policies vary from county to county. I am from Erie County. The following is taken from the Erie County Clerk's website:

Erie County Clerk
Pistol Permits

The Erie County Clerk's Office processes Pistol Permits for Erie County residents under terms of appropriate New York State laws. Following the completion of an application and criminal background checks, final approval or denial of a permit is the decision of an Erie County Court Judge or New York State Supreme Court Justice.

** Need a Photo? $10 at the Clerk’s Main Office, 92 Franklin Street
Hours of Service: 9 AM - 4:45

The following is the process for applying for a pistol permit:
Step 1 In order to apply for a pistol permit in Erie County, you must be 21 years of age and be a resident of Erie County. You are not required to buy or own a gun at the time of application.
Step 2 You may pick up the application packet at the Erie County Pistol Permit Department, or you can receive one by mail by sending a self-addressed, stamped, business-size envelope to:

Erie County Clerk's Office
Pistol Permit Department
92 Franklin Street
Buffalo, NY 14202

Note: Application forms to be submitted for filing must be obtained at the Pistol Permit Department. FOR APPLICATION PLANNING PURPOSES ONLY, a Draft/Work Copy Only can be downloaded by clicking here. This draft copy is not considered an official application form.
Step 3 Please read and follow the instructions on the application carefully to avoid any unnecessary delays in the process. Applicants must come to our office in person when submitting the completed application. The processing time to receive a permit is approximately 6-8 months.
Step 4 Part of the application process includes various background checks by New York State and the FBI, and an interview by the applicant's local police. Once all necessary background checks are completed, the application is then submitted for consideration by one of the Licensing Judges.
Step 5 Once a permit is approved by a Licensing Judge, the applicant must purchase a handgun and/or co-register one with another permit holder. The applicant must appear in person for the initial sign-up for the approved permit.

Registration of Handguns

When a gun is purchased from an individual, a dated bill of sale is required to add the pistol to the new owner's permit. The bill of sale must show both the buyer's and seller's names, addresses, permit numbers, and the counties that permits are in. The gun must be described by make, model, caliber action and serial number. Once the handgun is registered at our department, it may be picked up by the buyer, and the seller has 10 days to come to the Pistol Permit Office to have the weapon removed from his/her permit.

When a gun is purchased from a dealer, the dealer receipt is required. The receipt must show the buyer's name, address, permit number, and the make, model, caliber action and serial number of the gun. The dealer's name, address, New York State dealer number and county the dealership is in must also appear on the receipt. Once the handgun is registered at our department, a purchase coupon will then be given to the buyer, to allow him/her to pick up the weapon from the dealer.

There is a $3.00 fee for the registration of each handgun to a permit.

Deletion of Handguns

When a gun is sold to an individual, a dated bill of sale is required to remove the pistol from the seller's permit. The bill of sale must show both the buyer's and seller's names, addresses, permit numbers and counties that permits are in. The gun must be described by make, model, caliber action and serial number. Once the gun has been registered and picked up by the buyer, the seller has 10 days to come to the Pistol Permit Office and have it removed from his/her permit. If the buyer is from a county other than Erie County, he/she must provide the seller with a purchase coupon upon delivery of the registered gun. This coupon must then be provided to our department by the seller when removing the gun.

When a gun is sold to a dealer, the dealer receipt is required. The receipt must show the seller's name, address, permit number, and make, model, caliber action and serial number of the gun. The dealer's name, address, New York State dealer number and county the dealership is in must also appear on the receipt.

There is a $3.00 fee for the deletion of each handgun from a permit.

Death of a Permit Holder

New York State Law requires that upon a permit holder's death, the decedent's estate must, within 15 days, turn over the decedent's firearm(s) to another pistol permit holder; a licensed dealer; or the local police department.

The estate is also requested to notify the Erie County Pistol Permit Office of the permit holder's passing, along with a copy of a death certificate and information about the disposition of the firearm(s), so that the license may be cancelled.

Additional Information

Changes in Name, Address or County

Name Change
A name change requires the permit holder to appear at the Pistol Permit Department with proof of the new name in the form of a marriage certificate or Court Order, and two (2) current passport-style photos (no older than 30 days). A fee of $5.00 is charged to change the name on a pistol permit.

Address Change
A change of address requires the permit holder to notify the Pistol Permit Department within 10 days of the change. You may send a written notification or come to our office in person with your permit to effect the change. There is no fee to make this change. Address changes cannot be taken over the phone.

Transfer to Different County
To transfer your pistol permit to another county, you must appear at the Pistol Permit Department, or mail a statement requesting that your file be transferred to the new county. The statement should include your name, Social Security number, date of birth, old address, original date of your permit, permit number and your new address and phone number. You will need to include a $5.00 check payable to the Erie County Pistol Permit Department, as well as a $5.00 check payable to the county where you will be transferring your permit records. The new county will contact you when they receive your file.

Lost or Stolen Permits
You may obtain a duplicate pistol permit when your original permit is lost, stolen or mutilated. We will sign you up for a duplicate when you appear at the Pistol Permit Department with two (2) current passport-size photos (no older than 30 days), along with a list of your guns which includes the make, caliber and serial number of each gun. You will be given a duplicate information form to be filled out at our office when you come in. If your permit is older than 5 years, you may be required to complete a new background check in addition to completing the duplicate information form. The process for obtaining a duplicate pistol permit takes approximately 2-3 weeks. YOU CANNOT CARRY A WEAPON WITHOUT A PERMIT.

Background Checks
If your permit is older than 5 years, before a handgun can be added to your permit, you will be required to complete a new background check (Brady Law). This process takes approximately 4-6 weeks, and once completed, is valid for a period of 5 years.

NOTE: Pistol permits cannot be laminated.

Any questions you may have can be directed to the Pistol Permit Department at 716-858-6600.
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Step 4 Part of the application process includes various background checks by New York State and the FBI, and an interview by the applicant's local police. Once all necessary background checks are completed, the application is then submitted for consideration by one of the Licensing Judges.
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Sounds like a whole lot of different people get the chance to tell you no. Do you have to give any of those people a reason that you need the gun?

In his interview on Meet the Press, Rudy said, "...a person who wants to possess a handgun should pass a written test, should be able to pass a physical test in the actual use of the gun, and should have to demonstrate good moral character and a reason to have the gun. That those should be...essentially there should be a uniform law passed by Congress that says that every state has to administer that...."
 
I don't see much difference between Hillary and Julie Annie in the gun rights area except Rudie has an established anti record while Hillary is just speculation. The one thing I notice is that I have seen Rudy wearing a dress more often than Hillary.
 
Come on

Fella's,

I'm not defending Rudy's past gun nazi policies, but what do you want the guy to do? I don't really 100% trust the guy either when it comes to gun legislation, but he does deserve credit for showing up (most Dem anti's didn't bother).

I'd much prefer someone who is more "pure" on 2A issues, but Rudy may be our best hope against a proven gun swiper, Hillary.
 
A Giuliani nomination would be a disaster for the GOP. There is absolutely no way he could defeat Hillary Clinton.

Many Republicans would simply stay home rather than vote for a candidate with his hard-left views/history on gay marriage, amnesty for illegal aliens, prohibiting Federal money to sanctuary cities, and particularly the 2nd Amendment.

A Giuliani nomination would hand Clinton an easy victory and drag down Republican candidates nationwide. How does a second Clinton Presidency and a veto-proof Democrat majority in the House and Senate sound?

Giuliani offers up the worst of the Libertarians and the Democrats all in one smelly package. (As does Ron Paul for that matter).

Last I heard NYPD and the Port Authority run airports declared they will not abide by the Federal Peaceable Journey Statute. A stance Giuliani apparently agrees with seeing as he thinks local governments should set thier own firearms laws in all cases.
 
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A Giuliani nomination would be a disaster for the GOP. There is absolutely no way he could defeat Hillary Clinton.
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Not according to the pundits and polls.

Many Republicans would simply stay home rather than vote for a candidate with his hard-left views/history on gay marriage, amnesty for illegal aliens, prohibiting Federal money to sanctuary cities, and particularly the 2nd Amendment.
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The hard core right of the Republican party is the same as the hard core left of the democratic party..influential in the primaries and scary to the bulk of the electorate in a general election. In point of fact, Rudy's views on most issues are more in tune with the great mass of voters than either the demos or the republican right.

Thats not to say that I agree with everything Rudy says or has said, but I understand why he has said it.

WildconsiderallthefactorsAlaska TM

WildstilltryingtopickarepubAlaska
 
I'm not defending Rudy's past gun nazi policies, but what do you want the guy to do?
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I want him to beat Romney in the primaries, but come in third, tops. Him trading places w/ Romney in that scenario is also acceptable.
 
I'm not defending Rudy's past gun nazi policies, but what do you want the guy to do?
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I want him to contradict his longstanding view, and do it in a very public way.

He got on Meet The Press and said this:

"...a person who wants to possess a handgun should pass a written test, should be able to pass a physical test in the actual use of the gun, and should have to demonstrate good moral character and a reason to have the gun. That those should be...essentially there should be a uniform law passed by Congress that says that every state has to administer that...."
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Let him get on again, and this time say this:

"...a person who wants to possess a handgun should pass money to the guy on the other side of the gun counter, and Congress should not pass ANY law about that.."
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If and only if he makes a definite and public reversal of his position that we should have to prove that we need a gun before buying it, I will consider voting for him.
 
I think Giuliani is the only Republican candidate who can beat Hillary. I agree with WildAlaska that Giuliani is more in touch with the average voter than more conservative candidates (and certainly he has more in common with the average voter than Ron Paul does).

That is not to say I like Giuliani, or support him. I just think he is the Republican most likely to beat Hillary.

Fred Thompson is the favorite of the conservatives right now, and I will probably vote for Fred. But I am not convinced he can beat Hillary.
 
In his interview on Meet the Press, Rudy said, "...a person who wants to possess a handgun should pass a written test, should be able to pass a physical test in the actual use of the gun, and should have to demonstrate good moral character and a reason to have the gun. That those should be...essentially there should be a uniform law passed by Congress that says that every state has to administer that...."
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If someone wants to get a Class A LTC for the city of Boston, which is unlikely as all hell, they have to go to the Moon Island police range and qualify with a .38 special snubbie. That's it. They can't use any other gun. They can't use a semiauto of any kind. Nothing else. Even if they're not familiar with it, they have to qualify with a blade-sights snubbie.

Also, since they can't really have had the gun to carry anywhere to practice before getting the license, there's not much option for them to practice beforehand unless they go to a range that does rentals, adding more cost.

In other words, throw as many objects in people's paths as possible, and hope they decide it's not worth it. The ironic thing is that criminals don't care about the licensing, just get their stolen fo-tays in back alleys, and then proceed to unload their chorus of pops and bangs and screams on Roxbury, Dorchester and other Boston freefire zone suburbs every night...
 
Yep. Not only does it cost $200 to get the Class A, you're not guaranteed the CCW part, based on your POLICE CHIEF! So its not even statewide, which is absurd. I got my class A but was denied the CCW part. I guess i'll have to carry open then eh? (Though not technically illegal, its not a smart thing is Sheepachusetts). In the end I'm not too flustered though because the pistol selection here is so slim that im not going to go though all the blood sweat and beer to get the CCW for a gun i dont want, AND i plan on moving to Arizona in a year anyway.

As i cross that MA/NY border i will raise my middle fingers towards this state and scream "never again".

About the cantidates, I trusts Rudy's sudden pro-gun stance about as much as his ex-wives and estranged children trust him in general.

P.S. I do beleive Ron Paul actaully mentioned "You need guns to keep US in check!" at a debate sometime. Then Rudy as expected laughed and offered no real debate other than "I was there for 9/11"
 
If Rudy is the Republican candidate, I'll be forced to vote 3rd party. Not going to hold my nose and vote for him. I send all his fund raising literature right back to him in the postage paid envelope. I should tape it to a brick next time.
 
Can I just take this opportunity, with apologies to new member SteelJM1, to nominate the word "cantidates" for funniest typo/misspelling of 2007? ;)
 
WA, have you considered Huckabee? Hypothesizing that you're not a single issue voter, I wanted to know if he's up your alley. I'll PM you if this is drifting your OP OT...
 
Probably what MA, and Boston in particular require for a Class A LTC, which is only may-issue. Basically, you have to prove that you carry large amounts of cash on a daily basis, work in security, or have another, specific provable reason to fear for your life, such as that you're a prosecutor or such.
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Actually in 90% of towns/cities in Mass it is very easy to get a Class A LTC All lawful purposes. All the larger cities make it very difficult.



Yep. Not only does it cost $200 to get the Class A, you're not guaranteed the CCW part, based on your POLICE CHIEF!
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All firearm licenses in the Commonwealth cost $100 for six years. Now you can add the cost of the required firearm course which varies depending on where you take it, and maybe some extra fees tacked on the by the Police Department. For me the total cost of getting my LTC with the course was $125. There where no extra fees added.


f someone wants to get a Class A LTC for the city of Boston, which is unlikely as all hell, they have to go to the Moon Island police range and qualify with a .38 special snubbie. That's it. They can't use any other gun. They can't use a semiauto of any kind. Nothing else. Even if they're not familiar with it, they have to qualify with a blade-sights snubbie.
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Do you have a source for that information about Boston only allowing the use of a snubbie in the qualifying course. For some reason I always take what you write with a grain of salt. If you can please post a link or something where I can find that info.
 
The hard core right of the Republican party is the same as the hard core left of the democratic party..influential in the primaries and scary to the bulk of the electorate in a general election. In point of fact, Rudy's views on most issues are more in tune with the great mass of voters than either the demos or the republican right.
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I have to disagree here. On a whole range of issues that are hot with the voters right now, the conservative base of the GOP is more in tune with public sentiment then is Rudy Giuliani. Put another way, Giuliani is way to the left of most mainstream voters on:

immigration reform
government recognition of gay marriages
sanctuary cities
the illegality of being an illegal alien
abortion

As far as the second amendment goes, it really doesn't seem to be an important issue to many voters outside of the conservative wing of the GOP, the Libertarians, and the hard left wing of the Democratic Party.

On terrorism, how the Mayor who decided it would be a good idea to put NYC's emergency command post IN the Trade Center towers manages to get so much credit for his actions on 9/11 is astonishing. Giuliani deserves a great deal of blame for the confused response on 9/11 from the NYPD, NYFD, Port Authority, etc.
 
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First, I'm disappointed that Duncan Hunter wasn't there. He would have been interesting.... :(

Second, Giuliani's little "phone joke" told me exactly what he thinks of the NRA & the 2nd Amendment...it's a joke to him. He doesn't care what gun owners think...just as long as he fools us to voting for him. After all, he's the Hero of New York...Defender of (some) Freedom...and the only choice we have to stave off the evil tide of Hillary-dom. And, he must be a Friend to Gun Owners...LaPierre likes Rudy. Even complemented him on his designer jackboots....

Enough.

If Giuliani is the only game in Republican Town, I'm not playing. Based on recent history, I'm more scared of what a "compassionate conservative" will do to our freedoms, our rights, our economy, and our national security than I am the Lady Communist-In-Waiting. At least we true conservatives all have the will and the political means to fight her policies to a standstill--just like we did her husband. I'd rather be wounded by the Dragoness across the open battlefield than be stabbed in the back by the "buddy" fighting beside me... :mad:

Vote for your beliefs....if picking a winner is the only thing you're worried about, then go to the horse track on Election Day. :p
 
^ I was wondering about the cell phone bit. Was it supposed to be endearing, saying "Oh, I'm a real person too" or was it condescending as to say "I'll be done with these guys soon...just covering the bases" ?
 
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