Candidates meet the NRA

Wildalaska

Moderator
Giuliani: I support right to bear arms

By LIBBY QUAID, Associated Press Writer 25 minutes ago

Republican Rudy Giuliani sought to reassure the National Rifle Association of his support for a constitutional right to bear arms as rivals Fred Thompson, John McCain and Mike Huckabee contended the former New York mayor is no friend of gun owners.

In a direct appeal Friday to the powerful lobbying group, Thompson, McCain and Huckabee stressed their backing for gun rights and record of siding with the NRA. Giuliani, who once referred to the NRA as "extremists," tried to explain his shifting views on the issue.

The NRA's support is prized as the group blankets its 4 million members with ads, mailings and phone calls. Before the 2008 election, it hopes to increase its numbers.

"I'd like us to respect each other; I think we have very, very legitimate and mostly similar views," Giuliani told NRA members, who clapped politely a dozen times during his 20-minute speech.

Giuliani also tried to explain why, as mayor, he joined a lawsuit by several cities against the gun industry, arguing that manufacturers and distributors made it too easy for criminals to get guns.

On Friday, he said the ongoing lawsuit "has taken several turns and several twists I don't agree with."

Giuliani, an outspoken proponent of gun control during his eight years as mayor, said Friday he agrees with a recent federal court ruling that overturned a 30-year-old ban on private ownership of handguns in Washington, D.C. He added that he would appoint judges who take a similarly strict view of the Constitution and the Second Amendment.

Despite Giuliani's changing views, NRA chief Wayne LaPierre said: "All I know is, I liked what I heard today. It's a good thing, if a politician sees the light and supports the Second Amendment."

Thompson, McCain and Huckabee chose to highlight their record on gun rights in a veiled criticism of Giuliani and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. In 1994, Romney supported the Brady gun control law and said he wouldn't be the hero of the NRA.

Romney became a lifetime member of the NRA in 2006. He addressed the group by video Friday.

"Let me speak very directly and candidly about where I stand: I support the Second Amendment as one of the most basic and fundamental rights of every American. It's essential to our functioning as a free society, as are all the liberties enumerated in the Bill of Rights," he said.

Thompson, who makes a point of visiting gun shops and gun shows in early voting states, received a warmer reception from the audience of about 500 people, some of whom stood and cheered when he said: "Our basic rights come from God, not from government."

Thompson recently indicated that he wouldn't talk about his faith on the campaign trail.

"It's not just a matter of promises made, as far as I'm concerned. It's a matter of commitments that have been kept," Thompson said.

McCain criticized Giuliani outright, citing the use of the word "extremists" in reference to the NRA.

"My friends, gun owners are not extremists; you are the core of modern America," the Arizona senator said. "The Second Amendment is unique in the world and at the core of our constitutional freedoms. It guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms. To argue anything else is to reject the clear meaning of our founding fathers.

Anti-war protesters from the group Code Pink interrupted his speech and were escorted from the hotel ballroom.

The candidates spoke to the NRA as gun violence occurred on another college campus. Two students were shot and wounded, one seriously, at Delaware State University, and the campus was locked down as police searched for a gunman.

Such tragedies inevitably prompt politicians to argue over whether more or fewer gun restrictions would prevent gun crimes. Giuliani said he believes the best way to prevent such crimes is to enforce existing gun laws, not create new ones.

The former mayor said his views on gun rights were tempered by the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks: "Sept. 11 casts somewhat of a different light on Second Amendment rights; it maybe highlights the necessity for them more," Giuliani said.

Giuliani sought to make the case for his candidacy by highlighting his front-runner status in national polls.

"You never get a candidate you agree with 100 percent — I'm not sure I even agree with myself 100 percent," Giuliani said. "You have to figure out who's electable, who can win. Because if we make a mistake about that, this country is going to go in a direction that I think you and I very much disagree with."

Giuliani has said recently that what has worked in New York might not work elsewhere, a notion that Huckabee scoffed at.

The former Arkansas governor said it was "absurd, laughable, that we would have geographic boundaries on the tenets of the Second Amendment."

Giuliani's cell phone rang in the middle of his speech; he said it was his wife, Judith, and as the audience laughed, he answered it and had a brief conversation.

WildimpissedatfredAlaska TM
 
WildimpissedatfredAlaska

Not really seeing the reason why....

I think Thompson is calling Rudy out. Thompson may not have been an angel on his past voting record, but the trend Rudy established when he was in office appears quite tarnished...
 
And from the way the article was written, it also seems that FDT missed a golden opportunity to tear Guliani apart. Although maybe Fred really didn't have to say anything.
 
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Despite Giuliani's changing views, NRA chief Wayne LaPierre said: "All I know is, I liked what I heard today. It's a good thing, if a politician sees the light and supports the Second Amendment."

This whole statement sends shivers up my spine.
1. How do we know Giuliani actually changed his views from his past voting record?
2. I'm not crazy about LaPierre so this is a biased statement by me: His statement reads lawyer talk all over it with Ketchup on it.
3. "I liked what I heard TODAY". Well, what about "tomorrow" if he gets elected? Won't do much good on what he says today.
4. IF a politician see the light. BIG BIG if...
 
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Y'know just once I'd like to hear one of these guys actually say why the second amendment is important, why it's a basic liberty that needs to be protected. Just once I'd like to hear them actually say "guns in your hands are important to keep guys like us in check."

But that'll never happen.
 
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I'll give FDT the benefit of the doubt by assuming that he said what he said to pander to the crowd.

You must REALLY hate that every participant of our founding not only thought so but said so repeatedly.

Our founders were as a mod once said, "knee deep" in Enlightenment thought. Social contract - that's where our rights come from.

There's no such thing as God-given-right. Privileges. I'm not Christian-bashing or anything.
 
FDT said our rights come from God. Not cool. Not cool at all.
That was the coolest part. He meant that those rights are rights as human beings, regardless of what the government does.

I interpret that to mean that if congress repealed the BOR, we still are entitled to those rights.
 
Y'know just once I'd like to hear one of these guys actually say why the second amendment is important, why it's a basic liberty that needs to be protected. Just once I'd like to hear them actually say "guns in your hands are important to keep guys like us in check."

Well, Redworm...I must say I have to agree with you there...

Now, if you will excuse me. I've gotta go mark my calendar.............

Agreed with Redworm for the second time in history, 9/21/07 at 23:00....:cool:
 
This is what I was able to find about Thompson's comments as reported by my favorite paper, the New York Times:

Former Senator Fred D. Thompson, who spoke shortly after Mr. McCain, also emphasized the values he shares with the N.R.A. and noted that Charlton Heston, the actor and former N.R.A. president, supported his Senate bid in 1994.

“My relationship to you folks can be summed up very shortly – check the record,” he said. “It’s not just a matter of promises made, as far as I’m concerned, it’s a matter of commitments.”
Mr. Thompson said he’s been showing his commitment to the rights of gun owners on the campaign trail. He said he recently visited a gun shop in New Hampshire and a gun show in Florida.
Mr. Thompson also took a moment to point out what he considers to be another selling point in his presidential bid — his wife, Jeri, who accompanied him to the N.R.A. meeting today.
“I think she’d make a much better first lady than Bill Clinton,” he said to laughter.
(We’ll be back soon with updates from the

I couldn't find anything else about Thompson's comments......
 
applesanity,
I can see where you're coming from, but still disagree. Whether one thinks we came from an amoeba or a higher being, I think FDT's statement of context is that nothing can take away our natural born rights. And that rings especially true for any governing body. That's all.
 
Rudy on Meet the Press Feb 6, 2000, in which he says his longstanding position is that we must prove to our masters that we need a gun before they should allow us to buy one.

Do you believe the position he said he has held for 15 years, or the one he came up with when he decided to run for President?

Can a zebra change his stripes?

As for the other northeastern gungrabber who says he has changed his stripes, I don't believe him either. Romney going around bragging about being an NRA life member when he joined up at the beginning of his Presidential campaign is no more credible than Rudy, and for the same reason: longstanding support for strict gun control and several actions in his past to promote more gun control. Also, the bit about being a gun owner and lifelong hunter was just pathetic when he admitted that his son actually owns the gun and he hunted once as a teenager and once on a recent fundraiser. In the dictionary under pandering, they should just put his picture.
 
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FDT said:
"Our basic rights come from God, not from government."

Is that such a terrible thing to say? I mean, Presidents have said it before.

TJ said:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
 
By the way, I recently flew out West for a vacation, just got back last night. The Thousands Standing Around were doing their usual bangup job. I saw them take a new, sealed bottle of Prell shampoo from a Japanese woman who appeared to be about 80 years old. Meanwhile, my brother accidentally smuggled a knife aboard because he forgot it was in his pocket. That is the 3rd post-9/11 flight on which he has done that. I remembered to pack my knives in checked baggage, but did bring a sharpened pencil aboard while watching a man have his nail clipper taken away.

If you were inclined to violence and had to choose between arming yourself with a sharpened pencil or a nail clipper, which way would you go?
 
Rudy Giuliani is a lying bastard. Wayne LaPierre needs taken to the bowels of the NRA headquarters and beaten severely.
 
Despite Giuliani's changing views, NRA chief Wayne LaPierre said: "All I know is, I liked what I heard today. It's a good thing, if a politician sees the light and supports the Second Amendment."

Anyone know Wayne's address? I've got some real estate I wanna sell him. And some genuine artifacts. And some holy relics. And...
 
Thats the beauty of America, folks are never allowed to change their positions.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

Nothing has "rights". There are only defined physical laws, and even then they may not be immutable

WildifyouwanttogettothenittygrittyofphilosophyAlaska TM
 
Thats the beauty of America, folks are never allowed to change their positions.

I'm perfectly fine with people changing their viewpoints. My point is that it's awful convenient that one "changes" right about election time....

I.E., If Bill Richardson changed his viewpoint to more pro-gun issues, I might be inclined to give the benefit of the doubt although he isn't perfect on his voting record...

If Hillary announced she joined the NRA right before throwing her hat in the ring and wants to abolish the Gun Control Act of 1968, I wouldn't give her a snowball's chance in Hades to win over my vote. Besides, if she said this, I'd probably fall over dead from a heart attack...:D

It's all about credibility, intent, genuine behavior...
 
Thats the beauty of America, folks are never allowed to change their positions.
His "position" doesn't seem to be based on conviction or principles.

I suspect if he got elected, his "position" might change again.
 
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