Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Italian made for C/B is one thing._ "Step up to the plate and hit a home run right off the bat this time around."_ Consider buying American made Sir. Get yourself a SAA from Colt.
Calling all Experts
- Thread starter Doc Hoy
- Start date
Sure Shot .... It is a valid point you make
However, I think I will stick with a less expensive start since I am not certain I will take to the cartridge reloading world.
I know (or can imagine) the difference in quality between Italian and American and may at some point take the additional plunge.
I have forty Cap and Ball revolvers from various sources and so it is likely that I will not quit with my first cartridge revolver.
But I do appreciate and agree with your advice.
However, I think I will stick with a less expensive start since I am not certain I will take to the cartridge reloading world.
I know (or can imagine) the difference in quality between Italian and American and may at some point take the additional plunge.
I have forty Cap and Ball revolvers from various sources and so it is likely that I will not quit with my first cartridge revolver.
But I do appreciate and agree with your advice.
Here is another queston......
I cast all of my bullets and intend to continue that as I get into cartridge reloading.
I use two different flavors of bullet metal.
One is almost pure lead at probably higher than 99%. It is quite soft. It was provided to me as "pure lead". I don't know what the provider meant by "pure", but it is pretty good.
The other is a mixture including a high proportion of wheel weights. I think this may be as low as 95% and is somewhat the harder of the two alloys.
Which is right for cartridges?
I cast all of my bullets and intend to continue that as I get into cartridge reloading.
I use two different flavors of bullet metal.
One is almost pure lead at probably higher than 99%. It is quite soft. It was provided to me as "pure lead". I don't know what the provider meant by "pure", but it is pretty good.
The other is a mixture including a high proportion of wheel weights. I think this may be as low as 95% and is somewhat the harder of the two alloys.
Which is right for cartridges?
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
I'm happy you took my advise under consideration when it comes to your ever widening collection of hand cannons Sir. Concerning lead. Which to use. As far as I know. Usually bullet speeds you desire have a lot to do with a leads hardness (BHN) required. 45 Colt for target accuracy for all intent and purposes is usually held to the 700-850 fps mark. For your intentions (target shooting) wheel weights would serve your purpose just fine in a cast Sir. (Straight up soft lead usage.) That scenario I leave for someone else to answer that's more knowledgeable in that category.
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FloridaVeteran
New member
Hi, Doc - no, sorry, I'm over toward the east coast, in central FL. But thanks for the friendly greeting.
Bullets and powder measure
Doc Hoy,
I am working up a load for .45 Colt as well. My current load is with 200gr RNFP, with only one grease groove with SPG. I have been adding a 1/8 inch grease cookie (50/50 beeswax/crisco) to soften the fouling. I plan to try some out without the cookie, but I'm pretty sure that the single groove won't be enough. I have some 452190's with two grease grooves with SPG and will try them soon with and without the grease cookie. I think next I will try the Big Lube bullets as well. My intent is to get away from the grease cookie as it is labor intensive. I don't mind using them on 45-70, but it takes too long if I want to load 200 pistol rounds.
I use the Lyman Black Powder Measure - made specifically for BP, and have had no troubles. It even fits (albeit loosely) on my RCBS progressive loader. Seems to throw fairly consistent charges.
Cheers,
Chowmi
Doc Hoy,
I am working up a load for .45 Colt as well. My current load is with 200gr RNFP, with only one grease groove with SPG. I have been adding a 1/8 inch grease cookie (50/50 beeswax/crisco) to soften the fouling. I plan to try some out without the cookie, but I'm pretty sure that the single groove won't be enough. I have some 452190's with two grease grooves with SPG and will try them soon with and without the grease cookie. I think next I will try the Big Lube bullets as well. My intent is to get away from the grease cookie as it is labor intensive. I don't mind using them on 45-70, but it takes too long if I want to load 200 pistol rounds.
I use the Lyman Black Powder Measure - made specifically for BP, and have had no troubles. It even fits (albeit loosely) on my RCBS progressive loader. Seems to throw fairly consistent charges.
Cheers,
Chowmi
Picked up a shooting iron today
Went to Green Top Hunting and Fishing in Glen Allen, VA.
They had a Uberti Cattleman in stock with a 4.75 inch barrel.
Shorter than I wanted but this gives me a reason to buy more pistols.
Price was 429.00 minus five percent for Navy retired.
Got 200 primers and a Lee auto-primer as well.
They wanted 35.00 a hundred for cases and I thought that was too steep.
Went to Green Top Hunting and Fishing in Glen Allen, VA.
They had a Uberti Cattleman in stock with a 4.75 inch barrel.
Shorter than I wanted but this gives me a reason to buy more pistols.
Price was 429.00 minus five percent for Navy retired.
Got 200 primers and a Lee auto-primer as well.
They wanted 35.00 a hundred for cases and I thought that was too steep.
Here is what I have found for brass.
Buddy Brass is right at 20.00 a hundred with no shipping costs for orders over 50.00
Only problem here is that the brass is mixed nickel and brass. They take Paypal which is important to me.
I have an email message to another supply house at 13.84 per hundred but I need to find out what they charge for shipping and do they take paypal.
Waiting for a response from them.
Anyone on the forum with any .45 long colt to spare, I am in the market.
Buddy Brass is right at 20.00 a hundred with no shipping costs for orders over 50.00
Only problem here is that the brass is mixed nickel and brass. They take Paypal which is important to me.
I have an email message to another supply house at 13.84 per hundred but I need to find out what they charge for shipping and do they take paypal.
Waiting for a response from them.
Anyone on the forum with any .45 long colt to spare, I am in the market.
BTW Chowmi
Your post was helpful.
Perhaps you read before that I am going to start out with the two groove 200RNFP from Lee.
I do not have any cases yet so I am talking out my A__ __ when I speculate but it seems as though one might be able to get 32 to 35 grains in with the wad.
I read somewhere that one BP reloader likes to use a thin ring of paper between the wad and the bullet to keep the wad from sticking to the bullet in flight.
He also puts thin paper over the primer to keep the powder from getting down to that end.
I am not sure I know why this is important. (I might hasten to add that he was speaking of large bore rifle cartridges.)
Your post was helpful.
Perhaps you read before that I am going to start out with the two groove 200RNFP from Lee.
I do not have any cases yet so I am talking out my A__ __ when I speculate but it seems as though one might be able to get 32 to 35 grains in with the wad.
I read somewhere that one BP reloader likes to use a thin ring of paper between the wad and the bullet to keep the wad from sticking to the bullet in flight.
He also puts thin paper over the primer to keep the powder from getting down to that end.
I am not sure I know why this is important. (I might hasten to add that he was speaking of large bore rifle cartridges.)
Grains per cartridge and paper over primer
Doc Hoy,
You are right, depending on the bullet you use, you may be able to fit 30-32 grains in the case. I fit 30gr in with a 200 gr RNFP bullet, over powder card (fairly thick one) and a grease cookie that was about 1/8 inch thick. So, there's lots of room for more powder if you delete the grease cookie and use a thinner over powder card.
I loaded about 20 452190's today, with a thick over powder card and no grease cookie. I seated the bullets so that the crimp was just about where the bullet starts to neck down towards the nose (probably 3/16th's above the top grease groove). With about 1 or 2 /16th's compression I was able to get 28gr by weight of 3f in the case. I could probably seat the bullet higher and get more, but this is my starting load for this bullet and will work it up an down till I find something the gun likes.
As for the paper over the primer, this is sometimes used in Long Range BP Cartridge Rifles - discussed by Paul Matthews in several of his books. The notion being that the old primers did not deliver as much heat/flame as the new primers, while also delivering more hot debris. Black powder apparently likes the hot/flaming debris more than hot gas. Modern primers are a product of smokeless powder which likes lots of hot gas. The idea being that if you put a piece of wax paper over the bottom of the cartridge, you dissipate those gasses quicker and provide a bit more combustible material to ignite the powder from the base of the powder column. This might provide a more even burn than would hot gasses going nearly all the way to the base of the bullet from modern primers. There are several Long Range BPCR guys that now use small pistol primers held in by a shim-ring on their rifle cartridges, creating less of a primer charge. I haven't tried that yet with my 45-70, but may do some day...
I'll let you know how I get on with the rest of my load build.
Cheers,
Chowmi
Doc Hoy,
You are right, depending on the bullet you use, you may be able to fit 30-32 grains in the case. I fit 30gr in with a 200 gr RNFP bullet, over powder card (fairly thick one) and a grease cookie that was about 1/8 inch thick. So, there's lots of room for more powder if you delete the grease cookie and use a thinner over powder card.
I loaded about 20 452190's today, with a thick over powder card and no grease cookie. I seated the bullets so that the crimp was just about where the bullet starts to neck down towards the nose (probably 3/16th's above the top grease groove). With about 1 or 2 /16th's compression I was able to get 28gr by weight of 3f in the case. I could probably seat the bullet higher and get more, but this is my starting load for this bullet and will work it up an down till I find something the gun likes.
As for the paper over the primer, this is sometimes used in Long Range BP Cartridge Rifles - discussed by Paul Matthews in several of his books. The notion being that the old primers did not deliver as much heat/flame as the new primers, while also delivering more hot debris. Black powder apparently likes the hot/flaming debris more than hot gas. Modern primers are a product of smokeless powder which likes lots of hot gas. The idea being that if you put a piece of wax paper over the bottom of the cartridge, you dissipate those gasses quicker and provide a bit more combustible material to ignite the powder from the base of the powder column. This might provide a more even burn than would hot gasses going nearly all the way to the base of the bullet from modern primers. There are several Long Range BPCR guys that now use small pistol primers held in by a shim-ring on their rifle cartridges, creating less of a primer charge. I haven't tried that yet with my 45-70, but may do some day...
I'll let you know how I get on with the rest of my load build.
Cheers,
Chowmi
So.....
F16,
It seems as though you are saying I could dispense with the paper at the bottom of the case (over the primer) without much effect. You also appear to be using a rather traditional BP bore lube (Beeswax and Crisco) on the bullet.
Wait a minute....No I have that wrong. You are soaking the cookie in that lube and using SPG on the bullet.
I would hope to be able to use the same lube on both the bullet and the wad and I would hope to make it.
Hawg,
Okay....No nickel, but can you tell me why? (Keep in mind I am new at cartridges) Hard on the pistol? Hard to load? Wrong for the period?
F16,
It seems as though you are saying I could dispense with the paper at the bottom of the case (over the primer) without much effect. You also appear to be using a rather traditional BP bore lube (Beeswax and Crisco) on the bullet.
Wait a minute....No I have that wrong. You are soaking the cookie in that lube and using SPG on the bullet.
I would hope to be able to use the same lube on both the bullet and the wad and I would hope to make it.
Hawg,
Okay....No nickel, but can you tell me why? (Keep in mind I am new at cartridges) Hard on the pistol? Hard to load? Wrong for the period?
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I don't care if it's nickel plated or not. Nickel won't hurt anything, but it certainly isn't needed. Only reason I use any nickel plated cases is if they will be in the cylinder for an extended period of time and in varying humidity. In those conditions, brass can corrode (green) and cause minor damage to the chamber walls. Nickel plate won't corrode anywhere near as fast as brass. None of my black powder guns are left in those conditions so I don't need nickel plated cases, but I wouldn't throw them away or pass them up if I could get them cheap.
Fingers McGee
New member
I load 44-40 and .38 special in nickel cases. They do not stain like brass cases and only require a quick washing in soapy water, rince and air dry prior to reloading. I do not have any more nickel cases split than I do brass ones. - My 44-40s are all starline & the .38s are mixed manufactures.