Calling all Experts
- Thread starter Doc Hoy
- Start date
I guess....
....the only thing I am hoping to kill is a piece of paper.
I will probably add a different mold or two later.
What is a good powder charge for that cartridge and bullets? (200, 230, and 255)
I am still thinking the Uberti 7 1/2 inch barrel Cattleman blued at 481.00 for starters.
....the only thing I am hoping to kill is a piece of paper.
I will probably add a different mold or two later.
What is a good powder charge for that cartridge and bullets? (200, 230, and 255)
I am still thinking the Uberti 7 1/2 inch barrel Cattleman blued at 481.00 for starters.
Andy Griffith
New member
The 200gr may only hit a little lower than 250gr and may be an issue with some guns- nothing that powder charge modulation (if using smokeless) and Kentucky windage can't help. 
If you are going to be using holy black, your only choices are to fill it up so there is about 1/16" compression under the bullet, or add a wad under the bullet to take up a bit of room, and create a better seal and thus shoot more cleanly. Forget the wads at first to keep it simple.
If you are going to be using holy black, your only choices are to fill it up so there is about 1/16" compression under the bullet, or add a wad under the bullet to take up a bit of room, and create a better seal and thus shoot more cleanly. Forget the wads at first to keep it simple.
Andy Griffith
New member
A smokeless bullet can certainly be used with black powder if a wad or something else is there to help keep the seal tight and base lubed to prevent gas cutting.
Hawg....
Oooops.
Looks like I have made my first mistake.
I was planning to use a lubed wad, I thought a felt wad just like in Cap and Ball revolvers.
I saw a video on loading BP cartridges which made use of a wad, but I did not catch the three groove bullet.
Prolly wasn't paying attention.
Oooops.
Looks like I have made my first mistake.
I was planning to use a lubed wad, I thought a felt wad just like in Cap and Ball revolvers.
I saw a video on loading BP cartridges which made use of a wad, but I did not catch the three groove bullet.
Prolly wasn't paying attention.
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Grooves
Just reviewed two videos on loading BP cartridges.
One guy was loading for a lifle (78 gr) and was using a much larger slug. Three grooves and it appeared that he seated the bullet with all three grooves exposed. I had originally thought he was using .45 Long Colt cases, but I think that is incorrect.
The other was loading CAS loads (20 Gr) with a 150 grain bullet which he said was from (I think) EPP. Had only one groove and the bullet was seated with the groove inside the brass.
Both used a .060 lubed wad. (Which is where I got the idea.)
First guy put paper over the primer before charging the shell, then separated the wad from the bullet with a paper wad.
Just reviewed two videos on loading BP cartridges.
One guy was loading for a lifle (78 gr) and was using a much larger slug. Three grooves and it appeared that he seated the bullet with all three grooves exposed. I had originally thought he was using .45 Long Colt cases, but I think that is incorrect.
The other was loading CAS loads (20 Gr) with a 150 grain bullet which he said was from (I think) EPP. Had only one groove and the bullet was seated with the groove inside the brass.
Both used a .060 lubed wad. (Which is where I got the idea.)
First guy put paper over the primer before charging the shell, then separated the wad from the bullet with a paper wad.
steidle2131
Inactive
I recommend the Lee breech lock stage. With the quick change bushings you can switch dies almost as fast as a turret.
Most of the CAS shooters that use bp use the big lube bullets. They have large grooves. The card will work but I frown on anything that takes up room that could be used by powder.
The lubed bullets by themselves may work fine but you may get some leading. It's just as much our fault as your because we didn't tell you everything we could have.
The lubed bullets by themselves may work fine but you may get some leading. It's just as much our fault as your because we didn't tell you everything we could have.
FloridaVeteran
New member
The other was loading CAS loads (20 Gr) with a 150 grain bullet
(The above is supposed to appear in a white box. I am trying the "quotes" gizmo option for the first time - not sure how to do it, since I have not yet RTFI.)
Mebbe I misunderstood and mebbe you were referring to .38SPL, but if If the CAS shooter was loading .45LC with a 150 gr. bullet, that is an unnecessarily light bullet - I don't know of any others who do that, black powder or smokeless. Most CAS .45 shooters I've been around load either 200gr or 250 gr bullets (230 being an option). 200 gr. is most prevalent - most economical and a bit less recoil so a bit faster times. For BP, the .44-40 uses 40 grains of BP - I'd worry about 20 grains getting the bullet out of the barrel, especially if drawing from a barrel-down holster position.
A shooting buddy of mine from 1973 days, who now is waaay ahead of me in CAS, taught me to keep a box of 250 gr loads in my cart in case of clueless spotters. By that I mean spotters who only listen for the "clang" on the steel target instead of watching for a hit in the dirt behind a missed target. When a covey of such spotters would come along and call a "miss" when we were darn sure of a hit, and being a sporting bunch by nature, we'd load for the next round or stage with the 250 gr. rounds. The "BLANG" was much more noticeable and would make the point without being confrontational.
Reminds me of how much fun CAS is - very sporting folks, more than in any other of the competitions I've been in or watched much. Fun first, ribbon second.
(The above is supposed to appear in a white box. I am trying the "quotes" gizmo option for the first time - not sure how to do it, since I have not yet RTFI.)
Mebbe I misunderstood and mebbe you were referring to .38SPL, but if If the CAS shooter was loading .45LC with a 150 gr. bullet, that is an unnecessarily light bullet - I don't know of any others who do that, black powder or smokeless. Most CAS .45 shooters I've been around load either 200gr or 250 gr bullets (230 being an option). 200 gr. is most prevalent - most economical and a bit less recoil so a bit faster times. For BP, the .44-40 uses 40 grains of BP - I'd worry about 20 grains getting the bullet out of the barrel, especially if drawing from a barrel-down holster position.
A shooting buddy of mine from 1973 days, who now is waaay ahead of me in CAS, taught me to keep a box of 250 gr loads in my cart in case of clueless spotters. By that I mean spotters who only listen for the "clang" on the steel target instead of watching for a hit in the dirt behind a missed target. When a covey of such spotters would come along and call a "miss" when we were darn sure of a hit, and being a sporting bunch by nature, we'd load for the next round or stage with the 250 gr. rounds. The "BLANG" was much more noticeable and would make the point without being confrontational.
Reminds me of how much fun CAS is - very sporting folks, more than in any other of the competitions I've been in or watched much. Fun first, ribbon second.
FloridaVeteran
New member
Hawg - since you are the veteran here, I'll pass that on to my BP-shooter buddy (I don't shoot it, because I'm married to a first wife - he does, because he doesn't have to care). My assumption would be that the 20gr. is for faster shot-to-shot time, re recoil - is that correct? Good to know, regardless. Thanks.
FloridaVeteran
New member
Hawg - off-topic, I suspect (I'm a rookie here) - I was in Meridian a few weeks ago and shooting at the police range in the tiny town nearby (forget the name). Two fellas were shooting big-boom rifles on the 300-yd. range and I asked them what they were shooting. Turned out is was .284s, though I forgot to ask what they necked down from. They were practicing for a 1,000 yd. match to be held in Alabama, not too far away, in August or September.
I'm ancient-old school. To me, shooting 1,000 yds. in a match with sub-.3 ammo is really gutsy unless no-wind is guaranteed. Mebbe they were necking down .338s. Their velocity was fierce. All this stuff reminds me of how much an OF I am, because those two fellas were not spring chickens.
I'm ancient-old school. To me, shooting 1,000 yds. in a match with sub-.3 ammo is really gutsy unless no-wind is guaranteed. Mebbe they were necking down .338s. Their velocity was fierce. All this stuff reminds me of how much an OF I am, because those two fellas were not spring chickens.
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They were probably using a standard Winchester .284
Smaller calibers in long range is the thing now and has been for a number of years. My gunsmith used a 6MM in a shortened 223 case and he was good with it at 1000 yards.
20 grains of bp in a 44-40 is a wussy load with no noticeable recoil.
Smaller calibers in long range is the thing now and has been for a number of years. My gunsmith used a 6MM in a shortened 223 case and he was good with it at 1000 yards.
20 grains of bp in a 44-40 is a wussy load with no noticeable recoil.