Caliber size wound effects on the human body

[ShootingTargets7.com]

Meh...
Personally I think the AA-12 shotgun would be hard to beat for home defense. I don't need to jug of water to prove that I just have a "feeling"

 

[btmj]

An earlier post asked "why does the water jug jump into the air"

The bullet passing through the water creates a pressure wave. When the wave hits the side and bottom of the plastic water jug, the force of the wave is passed through the plastic wall of the jug and into whatever is on the other side. The bottom of the jug is resting on a firm solid surface, so the plastic flexible bottom "punches" the floor, causing the jug to jump.

If you could have your hand on the side of the jug as the bullet passed through, you would feel a sharp impact in your hand. I would imagine it would be similar to catching a baseball. I don't recommend this !

If the jug were sitting on an absorbent foam pad, it probably would not jump.

If the jug were a steel drum of the same weight, it probably would not jump because the steel would flex less and transmit less of the wave energy into the floor. In fact most steel drums are designed so that only the rim touches the floor, the bottom of the drum is raised above the floor. In this case, almost no energy would be transmitted to the floor.... no jump.

As others have pointed out, people are not plastic water jugs.

 

[MarkXIX]

While it has no real scientific ballistic results and doesn't try to have them, in relation to shooting water filled jugs for visually stimulating results; this video is hard to beat as far as how many cartridges are used and how many different brands of ammunition between them all is featured. Pretty entertaining I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekc8rs6CAOg

 

[PAT99MI]

 

[dakota.potts]

Pat,
Weclome o the firing line! This is probably the wrong place for your question.

My answer is no, do not mix rounds. Hollow point +p's will go through a couch (unless you're sitting on all steel). Unless you're trying to shoot through something like a car door, a hollow point should do it, and that way you're familiar with exactly what is loaded.

However, I do recommend starting a new thread to discuss this topic.

 

[481]

I'm new to this forum and maybe an answer to my question has already been posted. I'm an almost senior female with a physical disability and will be taking a CCl class shortly. I purchased a Ruger .38 LCR to carry once I'm licensed but I'm using it for home defense until I purchase a shotgun. Would it be a good idea to use multiple ammos in a load to cover different scenarios? For example, load 3 soft hollow point +P's and 2 rounds of a harder more penetrating type ammo in case I have to shoot through a couch or something. I wouldn't know which bullet was on first but I would more than likely empty the load anyway.

Since it is terribly impractical and darned near impossible to select a specific chamber in your revolver's cylinder allowing you to address a life-threatening situation in a timely manner, you are best off purchasing premium self-defense JHP ammunition and loading your revolver's cylinder with them.

Several manufacturers (Remington, Federal, Winchester, Speer, Hornady to name a few) offer several premium JHP designs (Golden Sabre, HydraShok, PDX1, Gold Dot, Critical Duty, respectively) in a broad range of bullet weights (110 gr, 125 gr, 158 gr. etc.) and velocities (from 750-1050 fps) for the .38 Special. Any of these JHPs will make it through typical household furniture.

 

[Jim243]

MarkXIX, thanks for the video link. I didn't think I would enjoy it, but I did. While 40 min long it was interesting to see what all the calibers and different bullets would do. I thought the 50BMG would do more damage than it did.

Thanks again.
Jim

 

[Theohazard]

Don't tell me that rifle bullets don't go though walls. They can and do. Saying they don't is as irresponsible as the idiots on Mythbusters telling people it's okay to shoot up into the air, as long as you point straight up.

Light hollow-point .223 loads will penetrate through walls less than most handgun and shotgun loads (but they'll still penetrate enough to be lethal on the other side). However, just pointing out that fact doesn't mean I'm advocating being unsafe with a firearm.

And whatever you might think about the Mythbusters guys, they definitely aren't idiots. They never said it was OK to shoot in the air, they only did an experiment that showed bullets fired straight up won't come down with enough velocity to kill someone. They also said that it's easy to accidentallly fire the gun in the air at an angle, and that angle is what allows the bullet to retain enough velocity to kill; they explicitly told people during that episode to NEVER fire a gun into the air.

 

[Theohazard]

I'm new to this forum and maybe an answer to my question has already been posted. I'm an almost senior female with a physical disability and will be taking a CCl class shortly. I purchased a Ruger .38 LCR to carry once I'm licensed but I'm using it for home defense until I purchase a shotgun. Would it be a good idea to use multiple ammos in a load to cover different scenarios? For example, load 3 soft hollow point +P's and 2 rounds of a harder more penetrating type ammo in case I have to shoot through a couch or something. I wouldn't know which bullet was on first but I would more than likely empty the load anyway.

Pat, welcome to TFL, but what you're doing here is hijacking the OP's thread. Feel free to make your own thread with your question, we'll all be happy to help.

 

[MLeake]

Bullets can go through walls.

As some have noted, bullets can be selected that are less likely to do so than are others.

Accusations of "rigged tests" are confusing. The 5.56 vs 9mm vs 12ga
a few posters mentioned has been discussed on TFL many a time. This is the first time I have seen people suggest results were falsified.

Note that the 5.56 used in that test was not penetrator core type ammo, and that it was traveling near max velocity in the test, so it disintegrated at wall impact.

 

[Brit]

As the only two people in my little house are my Wife and I, shooting through walls is not a big concern, pistols are easier to maneuver than long guns, hence 9mm Glock 19, carried all the time, sits next to me when I sleep.

As 16 rounds are in the pistol, easily controlled 147g Ranger, 3 rounds each for any bad guys, 5 bad guys, and a spare? The practical side of shooting indoors NOISE! The 9mm is OK in that respect. More so than a AK, yes?

 

[Rikakiah]

The practical side of shooting indoors NOISE! The 9mm is OK in that respect. More so than a AK, yes?

I'd expect the 9mm will still be pretty concussive in an enclosed room--possibly even non-discernable from an assault rifle for practical purposes. I'm not familiar with 9mm velocities, but if they're supersonic, a .45 might even be marginally quieter due to their innately subsonic travel.

Either way, expect hearing damage if it comes down to needing to fire. At least you and your family will be the ones walking away.

 

[Theohazard]

I'd expect the 9mm will still be pretty concussive in an enclosed room--possibly even non-discernable from an assault rifle for practical purposes. I'm not familiar with 9mm velocities, but if they're supersonic, a .45 might even be marginally quieter due to their innately subsonic travel.

Yeah, a 9mm fired inside will be very hard in your ears, but a rifle will be MUCH worse. And a supersonic 9mm versus a subsonic .45 isn't going to be very different; they'll both be painfully loud indoors.

And I hate to nitpick terminology, but using the incorrect term "assault rifle" to refer to an AR or AK just helps the anti-gunners who want to ban them. Assault rifles have never been legal for normal sale in the US and "assault weapons" don't technically exist; and if more non-gun people actually knew this there would be fewer people pushing for the ridiculous "assault weapons" ban.

 

[peacefulgary]

For home defense I would have to say the AK47 is probably the best choice.

Nope.


Are you going to carry that AK room to room as you carry out your daily activities?

Are you going to have that AK by your side when you answer the door bell?

Are you going to have that AK with you while you're sitting on the front porch or on the back deck?

Are you going to have that AK with you when you go to use the toilet?

Are you going to have that AK with you when you're making a sandwich in the kitchen?

Are you going to have that AK with you while you're working on your car in the garage?

Are you going to carry that AK while you're checking your mail box or while you're walking your dog?

Are you going to carry that AK while you're mowing the lawn or weeding the flower beds?

Are you going to have that AK beside you while you grill a steak on the BBQ?

Are you going to have that AK with you while you clean the swimming pool?

Etc....



The rifle or shotgun will most likely not be at hand when you really need it.
But you can have a handgun in your holster or in your pocket all the time 24/7, and you will always be ready to defend your home.

 

[Theohazard]

Nope.

That's not really helpful. And saying he's wrong isn't necessarily correct and it oversimplifies the issue. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

If I have time to get to it, an AR-15 in 5.56 is my go-to home defense weapon. That said, a handgun is alway on my body or close by, so that's what I'm going to use if I'm not near my rifle and I don't have the time or the opportunity to retreat to my rifle.

Each type of weapon has advantages and disadvantages over the other.

 

[peacefulgary]

That's not really helpful. And saying he's wrong isn't necessarily correct and it oversimplifies the issue. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Let me clarify...

A rifle is great if you're fighting marauders who have surrounded your land and are trying to get inside your castle keep.
Or if your group has "circled the wagons" and are fighting off a large group of attackers.

But inside your home the handgun rules.

Unless you own a humongous mansion just about any self defense shooting, inside a home, is going to be most likely less than 20 feet.
And in most cases it will probably be less than 10 feet.
Small rooms, narrow hallways, low ceilings, stairs, furniture, etc. all make the long gun rather awkward and unwieldy to use inside the home.
And inside the home there will probably be the need to shoot one handed, the other hand busy opening/closing doors, turning on/off lights, holding the phone while talking to the 911 dispatcher, holding a child's hand, holding the dog's leash, holding a flashlight, etc...
And while you can shoot a rifle with one hand it will not be as quick on target as shooting a handgun with one hand.
And it's much easier for an assailant to seize and wrest away a long gun than a handgun.


Rifles are great for hunting, target shooting, warfare, and sniping.
But for inside the home defense, the handgun rules.

 

[Theohazard]

But for inside the home defense, the handgun rules.

Not necessarily. If I'm in a stationary position, I'd much rather have an AR-15.

If I've got several people trying to break down my front door for a home invasion, I'd MUCH rather be waiting for them with an AR-15.

If I've got my family barricaded up in the master bedroom and we're waiting for the cops because someone broke into our house in the middle of the night, I'd MUCH rather be waiting for them with my AR-15 if they decide to come up the stairs.

I have a family. If some unknown number of people breaks in to my house in the middle of the night, I'm not going to run around my house room-clearing and try to engage them. I'm going to grab my handgun, gather my family, retreat to a safe room, call the cops, and then grab my AR-15 and prepare to shoot anyone who might threaten us before the cops can get here.

An AR-15 is FAR more terminally effective, will penetrate less through walls, and is much easier to shoot fast and accurately.

However there are plenty of times when a rifle isn't nearby and wouldn't be as useful even if it was: If I'm in the kitchen helping my wife make dinner and some meth-head charges in through our screen door, I'll have my handgun right there, ready to use.

A handgun is more handy and portable, is easier to maneuver through tight corners, is usually faster to bring into action, and is far easier to keep either on your body or close by at all times.

They both have their places for home defense.

 

[peacefulgary]

Not necessarily. If I'm in a stationary position, I'd much rather have an AR-15.

But in a self defense situation you will not know if you are going to be stationary until the situation is over.
In other words, you just can't plan to be stationary.
Self defense situations are fluid, dynamic.

If I've got several people trying to break down my front door for a home invasion, I'd MUCH rather be waiting for them with an AR-15.

And would this group of people really give you ample warning and time to retrieve your rifle, and then wait together on the front porch while one or two of them try to break down your front door?
This is pure fantasy.

If I've got my family barricaded up in the master bedroom and we're waiting for the cops because someone broke into our house in the middle of the night, I'd MUCH rather be waiting for them with my AR-15 if they decide to come up the stairs.

And how did your entire family find themselves barricaded in the master bedroom?
A criminal broke in to your home and your family instantly all ran to the master bedroom where you, with your rifle, were waiting to defend them?

I have a family. If some unknown number of people breaks in to my house in the middle of the night, I'm not going to run around my house room-clearing and try to engage them. I'm going to grab my handgun, gather my family, retreat to a safe room, call the cops, and then grab my AR-15 and prepare to shoot anyone who might threaten us before the cops can get here.

How exactly are you going to "gather your family in the middle of the night" without going room to room?
BTW, you should call the cops first.
That way, at least help is on the way regardless of whatever else transpires.
Otherwise you might get killed while trying to gather your family or while trying to retreat to the safe room, and a 911 call may never be made.
Call 911 first.

An AR-15 is FAR more terminally effective, will penetrate less through walls, and is much easier to shoot fast and accurately.

More terminally effective?
Maybe, and maybe not.
From Vietnam to the present plenty of folks have taken multiple hits from a AR type of weapon and lived to tell the tale.
It's a good rifle system, but not really that impressive from a self defense stand point.

Penetrate less through walls?
Maybe, and maybe not.

Easier to shoot fast and accurately?
Not necessarily.
Especially when being fired inside a home and possibly with one hand.


I was a soldier for six years and I am definitely familiar with the AR type rifle, and for in home self defense it is just not that great.

 

[Brit]

Three ear plugs sit on a tray, next to my Glock 19.

We sleep upstairs, if some people made enough noise getting in, I would be waiting at the top of the stairs, prone.

I think I could make a head shot, at three yards! The alarm would have been activated it is clipped to my lamp.

Response time by OCSO in the early hours of the morning, quick.

Long guns are in the safe. Sixteen rounds of 147g Ranger, should be OK!

 

[Rikakiah]

Three ear plugs sit on a tray, next to my Glock 19.

You have 3 ears? Probably enhances your early warning, huh?

Sorry, it's late, I couldn't resist...