Buying A Mosin For Long Range Shooting

The '43 Iz is quite common.
I have two, one a sniper & the other a conventional.
The sling ferrules are different, so is the overall quality.
The sniper shows better machining with fewer marks, not quite as crudely done as the standard rifle (which is on consignment at my dealer).

History is important & I have a general aversion to altering a classic military rifle, but not with the Mosins.
There's enough history to go around, modifying one will not diminish that in any way.

Make it into whatever works for you.

I've used JB on acquiring a Mosin to get out whatever gunk might be embedded during its past lifetime, and I'll do it again after a certain amount of use, just to address copper & so on.
Not regularly after the initial cleaning.
It's not done here to "polish", just to make sure the bore's in good shape regarding copper & powder fouling.

Surprising what it can bring out even after regular cleaning.
Don't over-do it, though.
Denis
 
if it has any greasy cosmoline on it, strip it down and boil everything for about five minutes, its the easiest and fastest way to get rid of it IMO, i also take pitchers of boiling water right down the barrel till it doesnt bead up anymore, then quickly dry it with a hairdryer. my first mosin had about 500 rounds through it and still had cosmo in the barrel and reciever. after water, everything needs to be dried quickly in the oven and then oiled very well. that's my 0.02
 
Nemesis: Thanks for the info. There certainly aren't any burrs in the barrel, but there were far more tiny pits in the barrel than it looked like through the cosmoline (as through a glass darkly?). I might take some J&B to it, just to see the results and get familiar with the chemical itself.

Jim: I'll certainly be picking something up. Does the Shooters Friend add much pull? Gotta admit I'm a tad worried about the cocking piece coming back, given how short the pull is. *grin* I'm also a tremendous fan of the word Cossack. It's so....Russian.... I have 20 rounds at my disposal. I'll try putting them through in short order and then scrubbing her down again.

tahunua001: Thank you for the buttpad insight. As for the historical value, I've given the question a lot of thought over the last couple days and I think this will have to be a working gun. Accordingly she's going to be refinished, and I think I'll probably end up doing whatever I can to make it a more effective tool. Sadly, I think this will eventually lead to removing her from her current state, which I'm a little loath to do, but I need the experience repairing and modifying a firearm, so I suppose I'll have to trade history for knowledge.

DPris: I just recently found out about the existence of "ex-sniper" Mosins. Fascinating. If I were going to collect one, that would probably be it. I think you might be right about making this rifle whatever it needs to be. I'd love to "collect" rifles, but right now I can't afford to, so might as well shoot it. *grin*

skizzums: Good call on the boiling. I cleaned the magazine and internals with this method and it made things much easier. Didn't quite get all the hardened gunk in the magazine, but it certainly made things easier. I used WD-40 around the rear sight and where the receiver meets the barrel, just to dispel anything the hair dryer might have missed.

emcon: That puts my mind at ease. Thank you for the info. I look forward to reading those forum posts in detail. Vintage solutions are always fascinating to me.

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Out of curiosity is there any way to track a rifle's deployment or deduce where and when it might have served (if at all)? I'm just curious to learn more about her.

As for modifying, I'm not planning on doing anything too crazy. I can't stand "tacti-cool" variations very often anyway, so I intend to start with getting a second stock, refinishing, some accurizing, and lots and lots of practice. After that, we'll see.

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Had a chance to take some better pics today, after spending 8-9 laborious hours scrubbing and cleaning. Posting as links to avoid lagging people with big photos.

Left Profile:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1097883_10201730217318375_828311023_o.jpg

Right Profile:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1085185_10201730217478379_1284588179_o.jpg

Receiver:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1167352_10201730214318300_1795206297_o.jpg
 
May I suggest that you Google: Simo Hayha & Vassili Zaitsev --- assuming that you've already seen the motion picture movie --- Enemy at the Gates.
 
Best way to remove Cosmoline especially from the barrel is steam. Buy or borrow one of those little steam sharks they work great on the metal parts just take it easy on the wood.
 
ok ... so my input

if you want a mosin setup ive been modifying mine recently for distance, just view my project for some ideas

a mosin nagant can shoot the distance, the issue is the bore, and the accuracy of the sites (some are better than others). if the bore is shiny metal with no issues you should have a dcent shot of hitting long range without modifying more that getting a scope on her. or shooting irons, which is more difficult.


Now as a mosin user with one that is being setup for shooting ranges 300+ targets, i can say it is possible. you will need to modify the rifle, from its original condition ,get new parts, and gunsmithing will be involved for the project if your going for a sporter type approach.

1.you will need some quality optics(id say a good scope with 6x power or higher) some can shoot long distance with lower power but its up to you

2. stable mounting platform, mostlikly a bent bolt, and some sort of stabilization bipod/tripod or gun vice to shoot accuratly.

3. an alternative stock that is easy to modify, boyds or another stock, a user of ours makes some nice ones

to remove cosmo is key, but the best way is heat, i baked my mosins parts at low temp to liquefy the cosmo, which got it all out nicly , but simple green works fine.

after this is done, inspect the gun for rust, this can lead to damage. if any sand off and i can recommend rustoleum matt black, matches well with stock paint and prevents further rust issues.


after shooting it the first time, you will learn a lot about your rifle, what it likes, how it behaves, were it tends to shoot. after this you can make corrections to irons to shoot, you will need to seriously train for irons distance shooting and if you shoot accurately past 400, i salute you.

i got tired of it and modified my mosin to be a sporter setup(currently), to shoot out further. now i setup my 30mm (tube with a 50mm lens) scope out to 100 yards zeroed, and i use a ballistics chart, for farther distance(via a handy dandy tag i have on the rings). i recently hit 300, not for accuracy but to see how the scope works at the distance, was fun to hit as its fun to ring this big metal bell we have out to the range. i recommend a parallax on the scope as it makes it easier. a range finder and a sporter scope(used by another person) to give the best feedback from shooting.

if you need any help in doing either setup i can help with advice, i know some parts that dont need gunsmithing, so a majority of the work can be done without a gunsmith, up to the scope/mount/bolt

pm or reply to post

hope this helps

~duz
 
The stock on this one looked terrible, so I sanded it down and put a tung oil finish on it.

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Trying to chase down the history of a given Mosin is impossible.
The Russians didn't keep orderly records on them.

I'd be quite surprised if the rear sling slot reinforcement was never installed, both of my 43s have them (different types, as mentioned), so did my 1940 Tula and my 1938 Tula.
But, with the Soviets, never know. :)

If you got a pitted bore, it can still shoot, but you may very well be even farther behind the game if you put a lot of energy & money into a gun with a bad barrel.
Shoot it a fair bunch BEFORE you start buying doodads for it.
If it can't hold under three inches with surplus at 100 yards (NOT PRONE, USE A GOOD BENCH REST!) using irons, you may want to re-think your position.

Denis
 
when it comes to the stock, i just break em down, and buy three types of sand paper, nothing too rough to very fine. work on sanding it bare by hand. then i use the cheap GUNSTOCK color stain at home depot and put about 5 coats of poly on it, makes em beautiful. it takes alot of time and alot of sandpaper since the gunk and coating on the stock gums up the sandpaper pretty quickly. and i also fold up pieces and get all the metal parts sanded shiny and i just clear the metal parts with the gun. i'm sure there is more professional ways to do it, but heres some pics, and this gun was beyond nasty lookin when i started. and i probably invested less than 15 bucks on the finish.
 

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towboat-er, how did you get your brass on the upper handgaurd so nice? did you buy those new or did you refinish them?
 
Thanks
It came with them. When sanding the stock I went ahead and sanded the brass. Used a very fine grade paper (I'm thinking it was 600) then brasso.
 
no worries, there are plenty of modified mosin nagants out there, one more will be barely be a drop in the bucket(assuming you have a bucket that holds 12 million drops of water).
they do make good project guns. mine turned into an utter failure, I think it's time to call blank slate and order a cossack kit for it. then again I used the cheapest of the cheap when it comes to modifications and you get what you pay for.

I'm not sure what you mean by refinish but if you were to remove the shellac and do a nice linseed or tung oil treatment like the one pictured above and got the tool marks rounded off a bit and the rifle reparked I think it could look very nice and be very utilitarian. the first thing I would work on would be the trigger though, those things are heavy in their stock form and seem to travel for miles.
 
You do not need to sand to remove shellac if you decide to go that route.
Denatured alcohol and 0000 steel wool will remove it quickly, and not remove
any stock markings.

Maybe it is just the photo, but I personally don't care for the look of
towboat-er's rifle. It looks like commercial Minwax type "Tung Oil Finish" for
furniture, and looks way too glossy for an old military rifle.

I stripped the shellac on these with denatured alcohol and steel wool, then
gave them an oil scrub finish using several Boiled Linseed oil, a new coat
every day, and let dry overnight. Once fully dry, I treated them with Tom's
1/3 mix, which is equal parts of BLO, Turpentine and beeswax.

before/stripped/after

blondie_steps_sized.jpg


sniper_steps_sized.jpg



I had no luck at all getting a photo of the blonde rifle that does it justice.
Artificial light makes it look darker than it is, and sunlight, even diffused by
the trees in the photo above makes it look shiny, which it really isn't.

In person, the finished product looks a lot like the photo of the stripped
stock, which also looks brighter in the photo than it did in person.
 
Erno86: I've read up on both. Fascinating stories, but probably more of a testament to the necessity of stalking ability and patience for a sniper than the inherent accuracy of the Mosin design. *grin*

emcon: Refinishing the stock is one of my first priorities. Judging from some of the pictures I'm seeing I'm digging the oil finish, although I'm not yet convinced of its toughness. Will an oil finish take much of a beating?

Duzell: I haven't decided if I want to go full sporter or not yet. I kind of like her just the way she is, at least for the moment. I'll review your thread for info and ideas though, thanks.

towboat: I love the brass trim on the handguards, very handsome.

DPris: That's a shame about the lack of records. I'll plan on putting half a spam can or so down range before messing with anything non-cosmetic. Even then, I'd like to keep the doodad count low.

skizzums: Not sure if I dig the idea of poly as a finish. I still need to research and figure out how to get a tough finish. That's one thing I like about the shellac. It certainly seemed to hold up (reasonably) well.

tahunua: With any luck, if I end up wanting an original style Mosin further down the road I'll be in a more finanically secure position to get one. *grin* I just don't have the facilities, resources, or disposition for a wall hanger rifle at the moment. I'll certainly look in to the trigger. I've heard the Finnish M39 had a two-stage trigger mechanism. Are those still around that you know of?
 
I'm not very familiar with the finns. I haven't seen any around as original anyway, just about the only aftermarket trigger I know of that's worth anything is the timney but it's kindof spendy. there are a number of do-it-yourself trigger jobs out there but you risk destroying your trigger group and none are as effective as the timney.

as for toughness, the beauty and curse of oil finishes is that they require some upkeep. after the initial oiling process that usual involves several coats, it is usually recommended to give a new coat every 6-12 months(depending on who you ask). so every time you apply a new coat you are covering up any scratches and dings that it has gotten since the last coat further protecting them and slightly blending them in with the rest of the rifle. keep in mind that almost all military rifles up until vietnam used either tung, linseed or a combination of the two as stock finishes.

a stain+clear coat finish may offer you more color options and is slightly tougher but they will still scratch, flake and ding just like the shellac on a mosin and then you can't just apply BLO or PTO without making it painfully obvious that the finish is flaking and the scratches are being oiled with something else.
 
ZRTaylor said:
emcon: Refinishing the stock is one of my first priorities. Judging from some of the pictures I'm seeing I'm digging the oil finish, although I'm not yet convinced of its toughness. Will an oil finish take much of a beating?
Click to expand...

Every U.S. military rifle prior to the M16 had an oil finish. Just about every other wood stocked military rifle in history had an oil finish.

The only others I can think of are the Finns, who used pine tar and oil, The Swiss, who used oil and Shellac on later K31s, and the Soviets with shellac.

The Soviets also used an oil finish. A few years ago, someone on Gunboards contacted Tula to see what the finish was on the rifles they made. The answer was:

Tulsky Oruzheiny Zavod said:
There were two types of finish during the rifle M 1891 production:
1. processing by boiled linseed oil with coloration (toning) and outside surface final smoothing.
2. impregnation in bath on basis of pine tar by liquid-bath method, polishing and shellac varnish covering.
Click to expand...

The Sniper rifle above sure looks like it was treated with Pine Tar. With the oil finish instead of shellac, it almost looks like a Finn stock.

ZRTaylor said:
That's one thing I like about the shellac. It certainly seemed to hold up (reasonably) well.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I am not seeing it. That rifle has most likely been in storage since the last rework where it certainly got a new coat of shellac, and even sitting in a crate in a warehouse in the Ukraine the shellac between the barrel bands is mostly worn away and looks like crap.

Oddly, the shellac holds up better on some Mosins better than others, I guess it depends on how much vodka Ivan had that day when he mixed up a batch.
 
np, my thread initially started with a non modified mosin using easy to attach parts, that come on and off, a swappable mosin as it was, i only recently modified mine to be a sporter and i find it to be very accurate and enjoyable to shoot.

A main point, i found when not wanting to modify original parts, is to get a drop in stock from a aftermarket manufacturer. An aftermarket stock usually can improve accuracy/stability, you then modify this stock with a bipod, and bedding system, which can transfer parts in between old stock and new stock without modification (just screw in the bottom and top screws that holds the origional stock in place usually), this improves performance.

now if you like the origional looking stock i know boyds supposedly makes a military version like it, so you would still retain that russian rifle look. might be an idea
 
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