Buying A Mosin For Long Range Shooting

It's obvious that many of you making suggestions have not closely read the OP's posts.

He is a young guy with no money and his boss has offered to buy him a rifle for FREE.

Take the free rifle. A 91/30 for free is a good deal. Ask for help and pick the best one that your boss is willing to buy.

I have a bunch of rifles and I have three 91/30's. They are decent rifles, especially for free.

Learn the fundamentals of marksmanship.

Save your money.

Research some rifles.

Have fun!
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^^^^This^^^^

Take the Mosin, buy some surplus ammo, shoot it. You'll find if you take the time to learn the rifle its a lot more accurate then many here seem to think.

I would recommend attending a CMP GSM Clinic with your Mosin. They are taught by CMP GSM Master Instructors, they'll get you started in shooting the rifle correctly.

I put on a clinic/match a couple years ago, the guy who won that match bought his Mosin and surplus ammo the night before. His first shots were at the match.
 
Saying the Mosin Nagant is not accurate out past 400 meters is a flat out wrong blanket statement. The Finnish M39 is only bested by the Swedish 1895 Mauser in the accuracy department. Military vintage rifle matches are shot out to 1000 meters. The M39 is a major competitor in the sport. In vintage rigfle, they have to be stock with iron sights (no sporter'd up rifles) except for vintage scope div.

Here is what I have seen that gives people a bad experience with these rifles in the accuracy department.

Example:

Two friends go out to target shoot their pet rifles at the range. One has a nice Remington 700 .30-06 and the other friend has a M39. The one with the Remington shoots a nice tight 1" group at 100yds. The other friend only gets a 3" group at 100yds with his M39. He says to the friend with the Remington that "this mosin sux, im selling it and going to buy a Rem700".

The detail most miss is the Remington was firing some premium USE made ammo that cost $20.00 a box and the Mosin was shooting some 60 year old corrosive eastern bloc trash plinking ammo out of a spam can that only cost him peanuts per round.

Buy some Hornady Vintage military match 7.62x54R or some Sellier & Bello 7.62x54R and try that in your Mosin before passing judgment on the rifle.

I can get just as tight groups with my 1944 Mosin M39 as I can with my AR-15 if I use good ammo and not junk.

This is also a reason that the AK and the SKS gets a bad rap in the accuracy department to a big extent.
 
At the factory....the Mosin's destined for a sniper role, were selected for their accuracy. Later...most Mosin sniper rifles were converted back into infantry rifles; with iron sights only.

It is said...that in every wooden crate that is packed with 100 M91-30's --- about three rifles in every crate were former sniper rifles --- You can identify them by the two plugged drill holes in the left side of the receiver that were made for the PU scope mount; along with a stamped out "sniper grade" serial number. With a good bore...that is the rifle that you want.

Almost any rifle will fail a drop test --- if dropped far enough --- I just hold the unloaded cocked Mosin in the vertical position; with the safety off, and drop the butt of the stock about 1 foot, onto a padded carpet. It should not trip the sear. The Mosin sniper that I bought off the shelf at a gun store, whose gunsmith polished the trigger group so much --- that he whittled down the trigger pull down to about 1 or 2 ounces. I could palm the rear of the cocked bolt with my hand, with just a little force, and the sear would trip. I had to replace the trigger group in that Mosin.
 
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If you are given a Mosin Nagant, learn to shoot a Mosin Nagant.
Play infantryman, learn how to use the iron sights, shoot not less than prone, and see how far you can hit a humanoid target.

Don't scab on a scope and hunker down over a bench trying to make a target rifle out of it.
 
I have 4 Mosin Nagants, 2 of which are in VG condition, 1 is excellent, one is a real beater.

The VG and excellent rifles don't really shoot much better than the beater rifle. or I guess the old beater shoots just as good as the excellent one, depending on how you want to look at it.
 
First of all, forget about any kind of "precision" or target-worthy accuracy with surplus ammo.

Not gonna happen.

If you want to plink, it's fine. If you want to shoot groups, fuhgeddaboutit. You really need to handload, though you might find that some factory ammo like Prvi can get the job done...and maybe not...

The rifles can shoot to minute of angle, with a great bore and crown, and the necessary sporterizing (pillars, receiver bedding) and for many a cut, re-crowned and free-floated barrel (in an aftermarket stock) because the military barrel's light contour is anything but stiff...and a Timney trigger (doesn't improve the accuracy of the rifle, but does the shooter...)

These are all things that you would do with any bolt gun to maximize consistency/accuracy.

If you can do the work yourself, it's a fun and rewarding project provided you start with a solid foundation- this is the reason I make the stocks for this rifle that I do. If you need to pay a smith to do the work, buy something else like a Ruger American.

I have a couple (natch) that I shoot out to 600 yards at 10 inch plates, and they hit consistently. At 1000 yards, my personal requirements (better than minute of angle) have me placing my Mosins in the rack in favor of more capable sticks.

This is all about the DIY "thing"...and having something different- and capable- that you did yourself.

Good luck.
 
eighty deuce,
this topic is not about M39s, it is about 91/30s. your post is mostly irrelevant. the finns had very different standards for their rifles.

the blanket statements you are hearing refer to russian rifles in particular which were not turned down if they didn't shoot MOA like finns.

my statements aboutthe accuracy of 91/30s is based on numerous rifles that I have either handled, shot or owned. I have shot my mosins alongside every other military rifle I own and the mosins(both sporterized and original) are the least accurate of all of them.

MAS36, enfield no 4(both sporterized and original) springfield 1903, M1 garand and arisaka(type 44 and type 99) all shoot better than the 91/30s and most by more than double the accuracy of the mosins.

my type 44 arisaka is easily MOA but I don't claim that based on my knowledge with a single rifle that all arisakas are accurate.
 
Eighty D,
Another point would be that if ZR is so financially flat that he can't afford to buy his own rifle, he is NOT going to be shooting a lot of the expensive Hornady Vintage Match through his gift.

In my case, that's been the most accurate load through my Mosins, but I can't afford to blow it out in large volume, and for learning to shoot (as he's doing), it's gonna be out of the picture for him.

Kinda silly to think a man so new to shooting and so cash-strapped would be putting hundreds of rounds of that Hornady load through a $99 rifle in learning marksmanship.
Also kinda defeats one of the primary appeals of the Mosin- cheap gun, cheap ammo. :)

Denis
 
The OP did mention the M39 as one of the models he was considering.

My reply was mainly aimed at some of the replies from others stating Mosins in general are inaccurate. If we are looking purely at Russian 91/30 arsenal re-builds like Molot...etc, I agree.
 
Most run-of-the-mill $99 91/30s encountered on racks today are not necessarily "inaccurate", they're just not long-range target rifles. :)

ZR has almost no shooting experience, is still at the beginner level, has no money to put $500 into his gift after he gets it, no knowledge, skill, or equipment to modify it extensively to bring it up to speed, and can't afford to be shooting expensive factory ammunition through it in volume.
None of which is knocking him, just laying out his situation.

As a beginner centerfire, after he progresses with the .22 he's discussing in another thread, the Mosin is not altogether a bad rifle to learn on for a budget shooter.

AS LONG AS HE DOESN'T EXPECT TOO MUCH FROM IT. :)

Mention of a select Mosin, pricey ammunition, and a lotta shooting with both isn't entirely realistic in his case.

Even at $100 per 440 spam can (or whatever it is now), that surplus stuff will add up, but it's probably about the most affordable way to get into centerfire shooting on anything like a regular basis right now for a non-reloader.

Those who do a lot of shooting with such a combo generally have more experience & at least a bit more discretionary funding. :)
Denis
 
The OP did mention the M39 as one of the models he was considering.

My reply was mainly aimed at some of the replies from others stating Mosins in general are inaccurate. If we are looking purely at Russian 91/30 arsenal re-builds like Molot...etc, I agree.
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the OP admitted later that he had confused the M39 with the 91/59 after many had pointed out that he had listed it under carbine length rifles when the M39 was a full length.

at this point in the conversation it has become very clear that he is not the one buying, it is going to be a gift from his boss. the 91/30 is the model being most heavily looked at. furthermore he can't afford high quality match grade ammo.
 
Just my $.02 on this. It would be a fun project just for the learning exprience and to see what's it's capable of. However, its never going to be as accurate as a dedicated current target rifle.

I spent more money and time (just for the heck of it, I like projects) to see how accurate I could make an old Mosin 91/30. Including a ton of modifications, the best to date has been .7 MOA at 100 yards and 1 MOA out to 400 yards. Unfortunately, that's not good enough to accurately (IMO) shoot at 1,000 yards.

To get the accuracy I needed, barrel length had to be taken into consideration for stiffness, which meant shortening the barrel. Even if it was accurate enough, I doubt I would get the velocity needed with a 175 SMK to stay supersonic. I know people have done 1,000 with some hits on steel but I'm talking about with repeatable accuracy, such as in a match.

So what I have is a pretty decent mid range gun that never fails to draw attention and is something different. However, it's never going to be an F class gun. You can go out and buy a box stock Savage to meet your goals of 1,000 yards w/ good quality .308 off the shelf.

If you are mechanically inclined and enjoy tinkering, you might have some fun. I just don't think you would get the results you are looking for.

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T455-that's the nicest looking MN that I have ever seen-good job! Where are you located in TN. I'm in middle TN.
 
Just north of Nashville. We go to either CHMR for 100 yard, MGSC for 400 yard and my son started 1,000 yard F class at AEDC this year.
 
i think he is saying that he is getting this rifle, for free, and doesn't have a choice to get a different gun/caliber.

but i agree with most. a normal out-of the-box nagant, is only getting 2.5MOA, and that's if your a decent shot. i have several mosin's, one in particular that shoots very well. the first, easiest and free upgrade to do is to shim your trigger with some washers, i used two very small washers and cut on side flat. you bolt it inbetween your trigger and your reciever. there are many directions on youtube. second is bed your stock, by filling in the loose stock with fiberglass to keep gun from moving around when you shoot, also a ton of videos on youtube. third is to float your barrel, cause mosins get hot very fast, and you will suffer in accuracy, my barrel is floated and it still suffers after 10-15 rounds. and fourth is a scope mount, there are many options, but only one that will suit you for long range, and that it ati's reciever mount, which has to be tapped into the reciever, can be pricey if you dont have the skill and a good drill press. lastly, a good piece of glass.

after all that, you can probably keep in a 12inch group at 400 yards w/o making your own ammo.

my advice is, buy it, do the simple trigger upgrade and bed your stock, and get really good at shooting up to 150 yards using your iron sights. i have been really into shooting for a couple years now, and still couldn't make a 1000 yard shot, even with a 1200$ rifle. but i have learned more than anything just shooting using iron sights and learning the craft. the mosin is a great, fun, cheap to shoot rifle. good luck
 
Well folks, here she is.

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My identification on the arsenal marking is a little uncertain because it appears to have been double-stamped and doesn't look quite correct, but I think it's an Izhevsk, dated 1943. My understanding is that this is an incredibly common specimen. The bore looked excellent, to the best of my ability to judge, and there are no scuffs or dings in the crown. The chamber, bolt, and receiver seem free of rust. All the serial numbers match. I suppose the rest, as far as shooting, is up to chance.

I have a better camera, and I'll be taking some pictures after I get her de-cosmolined and such. The stock is worn in many places, the shellac scraped off and dinged. Beyond the abysmal tool marks, the wood is my only complaint. I'm hoping the horrid machining isn't an indication of what to expect when pulling the trigger.

On the upside she did come with all many accessories. Oil can, cleaning kit, ammo pouch. The only thing lacking is some stripper clips, which I suppose I can pick up later on if I can find a good source.

I kind of feel like I missed out on some of the "first gun" magic by not buying her myself, but perhaps we'll grow something special after a few dozen trips out to the back field. Here's hoping.

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Four questions though.

*Does anyone here have any experience with the rubber butt pads that are designed to replace the original steel one using the standard screws? Are they effective, and will they damage the stock in any way?

*The stock is missing the rear metal bracket in the sling slot. Is there a way to get replacements? Is it acceptable to use the sling without the bracket or will it damage the stock and/or sling?

*Is there any point to being intent on preserving the original state of the rifle (stock, bluing, components, etc) from a historical perspective, or this specimen too damn common to be worth worrying about at all?

*Some of the cleaning guides I've seen say to use a bore cleaner like J&B to polish the bore before firing. Is there an advantage to this? Could it cause any damage?

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Tempest: Dear god that's a gorgeous piece of work. Got my gears turning in overdrive with a couple of different ideas.
 
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congratulations on the first rifle


To help with the questions

Never tried the screw in butt pad I use the slip on it works great and comes right off, you need a medium.

I'm sure you can find a broken stock on eBay and take what you need

I say redo everything this is you project gun learn to refinish and blue or duracoat with this rifle

I would only use JB if your bore is stubborn and won't clean up your barrel is far from new I'm sure their are no burrs left ;)
 
Rather than a screw on pad, I like the Shooter's Friend slip on.
It is the ugliest firearm accessory available, but also the best recoil pad I have seen.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Recoil_Pads_it-163393.aspx?CAT=4018

I don't know about parts, but surely the little sling ferrule is available somewhere. I doubt it will hurt to thread the sling through the slot without one.

People are starting to whine about the Historical MN, but I think it only matters if you have a rare variant like a Cossack. Doesn't that sound exciting? Just the word Cossack brings up all sorts of images, like butchering peasants. But then I am older and will probably not last long enough to see MNs become scarce.

I think I would clean it conventionally with solvent, brush, and patch and see how it looked. If not bad, I would take cleaning gear to the range so I could shoot it and clean it hot. These things are usually pretty nasty and you will end up trying every cleaning technique known to man. JB will not hurt the barrel.
 
congratulations on the new rifle. you pretty much got the standard package when it comes to mosin nagants. the tool marks are a major gripe of mine as well.



*Does anyone here have any experience with the rubber butt pads that are designed to replace the original steel one using the standard screws? Are they effective, and will they damage the stock in any way?
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I have no personal experience with them myself but a number of reviews I've read claim that those actually make recoil worse, the slip ons seem to get better reviews on mosins.

*The stock is missing the rear metal bracket in the sling slot. Is there a way to get replacements? Is it acceptable to use the sling without the bracket or will it damage the stock and/or sling?
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that is just a little re-enforcement to keep the sling from tearing through the stock. unless you plan on executing a bayonet charge/hand to hand fighting, then there is no reason to worry, just be careful with it. that I know of there are no replacements.
*Is there any point to being intent on preserving the original state of the rifle (stock, bluing, components, etc) from a historical perspective, or this specimen too damn common to be worth worrying about at all?
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all military guns have historical value, some less than others but the mosin does have a rich history. the reason that it is so cheap compared to springfields or other military rifles is just due to the huge numbers that they were built and how much less refined they were built. as the number of original rifles in high supply drops then the price will go up. 5 years ago these rifles were selling for $50 in original condition if you got a package deal. now they are averaging $150 and are getting harder to find. once the supply of them truly runs out then the appreciation on them will skyrocket. when that happens a chrome plated, synthetic stocked mosin nagant with a bent bolt and scope mount screwed onto it will not hold nearly the same value as the one you pictured, complete with dings, scratches, and atrocious tool marks.

*Some of the cleaning guides I've seen say to use a bore cleaner like J&B to polish the bore before firing. Is there an advantage to this? Could it cause any damage?
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I've never used it and considering that these are used rifles they have probably seen enough use to make that polishing redundant or just ineffective. just a standard cleaner to get all the cosmoline should suffice.
 
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