BUY AMERICAN RUGER IS THE BEST!

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Ugly pistol? I chose my Glock-21 after realizing that I liked the .45 ACP round;something that I picked up from the Army. I was impressed with the price ($529.00), the finish (Ahhh...Tenefer), the fact that its one of the most accurate pistols out of the box (Though I'm sure some of you SIG owners will disagree ;)) and I get 13, count em' 13 shots of .45 ACP to send downrange.
As for Ruger and its "fine line of pistols", after I picked up and held a number of P-series I found them to be just too bulky for the number of rounds they carried. That and I have to admit, the Mini-14 debacle burned me pretty bad ;)

Jon
 
RikWriter Sorry, have you seen any sales figures on Colt AR's they can't give them to Law Enforcement. Nationwide Ruger is definitely Law Enforcements Sales Leader. Consider they make the GB Model just for police. Colt has been on the verge of bankruptcy several times due to low sales. Military Contracts are the only reason the Colt AR exists. (from Colt anyway) Go visit a police station sometime.
 
Protoolman, even if I accept your numbers about Colt, they are NOT the only makers of AR 15 style rifles. And ARs and Minis aren't the only choices.
 
Not the only maker of this type of rifle "AR?"

Should we include the M14 AND M1 as mini-14 type rifles? Maybe torture test one of these against that AR? We'll have to do bayonet last as the AR will probably break.


"Time would prove that one of the major problems with the M16 in the war years was its ammo, bought on the cheap by an Army cutting costs at the expense of its men's lives(and later, when the ammo situation was straightened out and the mammoth teething problems were addressed, the weapon did get better). But in the final analysis, that situation--as obscene as it was-- was still secondary to the fact that the weapon was a worthless piece of junk that never should have gotten down to the troops to begin with."
Col David H Hackworth

I personally don't have anything against AR's, I just got tired of all the sacred cow talk about them.

Let the bashing begin.

Out here in so cal all I see are Mini-14's in police cars, I have 3 family members that are LE0's.

And by the way LAPD did get surplus 16's with bayonets.

[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited November 06, 1999).]
 
So, Oberkommando, you're saying we shouldn't count Bushmaster, Olympic and Armalite AR15 clones as "types of ARs?"
Is that REALLY what you wanted to say?
 
The AR-15 design was not well thought-out. It blows propellant residue directly back into the action and it simply has too many parts. Losing the tiny pins while field stipping is a real problem, especialy if somebody happens to be shooting at you.
The number one attribute of a service rifle is reliability. The M16, no matter how many A designations it mutates is not reliable. We'd be better served by a Kalashnikov action cycling the 5.56mm cartridge.

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Far as I know there are no Armalite clones as they were the origianl manufacture? Colt bought the rights to the AR15 from them in Dec 1959, as to Olymipic and Bushmaster you are right they are definitly ar style rifles.
I did not mean to say they were a different rifle altogether, are any used in LE?

This whole ar thing and many other guns are mix and match of older designs of differnet guns, "hinged upper and lower similar to FN FAL, rear sight in carry handle=British E.M2; and the ejection port dust cover Sturmgewehr MP44, and the ar locking system similar to Johnson rifle.
 
cdf, what can I tell you? You're just plain wrong. I have owned many ARs and used them and abused them in the swamps of Central Florida, and carried quite a few M16s through the mucken mire when I was in the Infantry, and I never had a single jam from a factory-assembled rifle using live ammo. I have also fired many AK variants and I wouldn't want one in combat...they are far from accurate at any range over 150 meters.
 
Oberkommando, yes the current Armalite ARs are clones, because the current company named Armalite is NOT the original Armalite that designed the AR...they are Eagle Arms, who bought the rights to use the name Armalite.
 
Why I don't buy a ruger auto pistol? Because they s_ck. They just feel like a brick in the hand. Let me ask you this, if Ruger autos are so great then why doesn't lage numbers of police officers use them?
I mean if they were "all that", then there would be no M9 Beretta's. The best in law enforcement and military (IE. the FBI and Navy Seals) use Glocks and Sigs. Not American made Ruger sh_t.
You get what you pay for in combat handguns. With that said, your beloved Ruger is a three hundred dollar pistol nothing more. My life is worth the best. Don't use the buy American and be a patriot B.S. on me. Me and my kind protect America while your safe at home in your nice warm bed.

One more reason to not buy a Ruger, because BILL Ruger is a S.O.B.
 
The evolution of the Ruger pistol improves with every new model. There are fewer parts with each successive model and the remaining parts have been reengineered to be multitask. With the isoplast/plastic frame, Ruger has really simplied itself while retaining the basic ruggedness and reliability of the design. They also look better too (I've never heard anybody call the P85, P89, P90 and P91 attractive).

From my perspective as an armorer, only the Glocks and Sigmas are easier to work on and unlike Sigs and Berettas, there are no roll pins in the Ruger. They are all good reliable designs, and if the the issue came down to a cost-analysis or benefit-cost comparison, the Ruger would be hard to beat.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
I've had the oposite experiance with AR's. I've found their tendency to jam most uncomfortable. It's sad to see a whole squad snapping in to qualify and have it take twice as long due to clearing jams. Clean rifles in range conditions. Then if took them out in the field with the miles...Sorry sight. As to the range and accuracy, yes, the AR has a definite advantage in range and accuracy. But I'm 0311, not scout/sniper. Most firefights don't occur at the extended ranges, and opposing grunts don't stand still awaiting a hit to their 10-ring.
I'd take a Galil or a Valmet please.

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Just 3 quick points here.
1. I have owned a p89 and p90. Both were completely reliable and as accurate as I could shoot.

2. Only one agency in my county authorizes carbines and that is the Colt ar15 in 9mm only. No other brands. Outside of this county, I see far more mini14's in cruisers than anything else. I am a cop and do pay attention to other agencies gear.

3. Mr. Ruger has admitted his stupidity many times and is now on the right side. Each individual must decide whether or not to forgive him. I personally do not buy hicaps just because I can (letterhead) because I think that would be unfair. I don't like the law either but have decided to give old Bill another chance.

BTW, my favorite pistol is the compact 40 usp.
 
cdf, WHEN were you in the military? The earlier M16s had a lot more problems than the A2s. Also, you mentioned MILES gear...I explicitly and on purpose said no jams with LIVE AMMO. Blanks are not what the rifle was designed to feed and I don't hold jams with blanks against it, as you seem to be doing. Hell, the M2 jams with blanks more than any other weapon, but it is very reliable with live ammo.
 
You're correct about the MILES. The adapters aren't the slickest inventions out there. They're supposed to keep the opperating pressure the same so as to work the action, but they usualy don't. And the contractor loading the blanks doesn't appear to put forth much effort in quality control.
Nevertheless, I beleive the overhung bolt layout of the Kalashniclones to be superior for a service rifle. Using our beloved 5.56NATO with such an action would deliver the field ballistics you desire anyway.
DD214 reads,94/10/12 to 97/12/06


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cdf, if you want to say that a Galil is better than an M16/AR, I will give you that...the Galil is perhaps the best assault rifle ever made. But I wouldn't take a Commie-made rifle over an M16/AR...the QC just aint there.
 
Rik:

What about the South African R2...as I recall, it was pretty much a Galil "knock-off". Do you think it is as good as the original?

Everything I have read on it (never having touched one personally, much less firing one) indicates it is a good battle rifle.

Mike
 
The South African Rifle, the R-4, is line for line a Galil. The internal workings, including bolt, carrier, and piston, are interchangable. South Africa and Israel cooperate a great deal militarily, even sharing a nuclear weapons programme at one time. Additionaly, the SAF "Cheeta" is actualy a "Kfir".
The FNC is a fine belgian weapon, simular to the AR-18 in operation.

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