Bump stock gone?

SPEMack618 said:
To me, the issue isn't the bump stock, but how the forth coming regulation may be written.

I'm worried for after market triggers and such.
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I'm worried about that too because the term "rate increasing devices" screams ATF reviews to say semi-automatics fired too quickly is ripe for regulation on semi-auto firearms.

The term bump stock or any buttstock that uses spring pressure and forward momentum of the receiver to propel the trigger into the finger is a better way of defining bump stocks and not open to question as to what constitutes a "rate increasing device."

As many have said, a person with strong and fast reflexes could be an organic "rate increasing device" and does that mean they'd have to get their fingers serialized and registered?

As long as the phrase "rate increasing device" isn't made into law, I don't see how it could be abused in the future.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Your thumb and a belt loop is a rate increasing device. ATF is going to have a difficult time regulating those.
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They can't regulate people's body parts and clothing, but they can regulate complex manufactured devices and that can only encompass the buttstock, not "rate increasing devices" as that is far to broad and vague a term.
 
A bad toy !!!

Yes you can play like you have a machine gun, but the accuracy is a joke.
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I agree and the key word is "play". I also agree that it will be like throwing a bone to a dog and these dogs will not settle for the bone and go after the meat ... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
So, how many of you have called your reps over this?

I started my calls today, will continue tomorrow, and I joined the Gun Owners of America. A strong letter to NRA goes out tomorrow.
 
I won't miss bump stocks. We won WW2 behind semi auto rifles. We'll be fine.

I am curious what the final legalese will look like.
 
What does "gone" mean? No more manufacturing of these things? Confiscation? Registration of existing items? Can anyone here define "gone"?
 
While I don't give two shakes about a bump stock - or even a belt loop - that isn't the point.

The whole point is I voted for that guy so he could strike the fear of God into the gun grabbers, not make stupid deals with them.

I'm as sick and tired of these acts of violence as anyone & it's about high time we demand something be done to - - at the very least - - identify the root problem.

Banning this or that - making nice with the "other side" does nothing at all. Worse than that, it just adds to the overall problem.

Bah! I'm glad I'm not all that long for this world.
Seriously. I still have a couple Thanksgivings to celebrate - but - -then all the goofballs dancing around dressed like a woman's privates screaming about banning this and that are welcome to the whole mess.
 
My perspective is simply this:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

"Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

"Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

'Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

I don't have any use for bump stocks but if someone else does, I need to speak up in his defense. I don't have any use for a 50BMG but if someone else does, I need to speak up in his defense. Etc.

Because sooner or later, the stuff I DO use, like 30 round magazines, hollow point ammunition, lead shot, reloading supplies, etc. are all going to be on the list of things I'll that other guy's help to speak up about. I have to hope he'll still be there for me.

--Wag--
 
I learned long ago that the worst results come about from decisions made in the heat of the moment, when passions and hubris are running high. Common sense and reason are clouded, at the very time they are needed most.
With all the emotion and drama being injected by those on the left, as they continue to use these shootings to advance their agenda, I see little hope of rational discourse any time soon. I believe that the recent tragic events have emboldened some to finally come out and drop all pretense of incremental steps, and just jump straight to the finish line of their real agenda, which is to ban all firearms completely.

This is why, even though I don't have a personal interest in bump stocks, I think it is a poor decision for us in the pro-gun community to support ceding anything at a time when the opposition has a full head of steam, fueled by powerful emotional sentiments and a groundswell of determined youth. As a wise man once told me, "You can't reason with an unreasonable person."

Even though there will always be risk inherent with full liberty, there are measures, both preemptive and reactive, that could reduce the frequency and severity of these sickening mass shootings that have become so prevalent in our society, without infringing upon our 2nd Amendment rights.
Those answers will only come from addressing the true root of the problem, which I believe to be a people problem, not a gun problem.
 
I do not believe that full auto firearms should be as expensive and difficult to obtain as they are. I would like one, but I dont have the bank account. But; to say bump stocks are fine and full autos are extremely limited - That makes no sense to me. I was shocked to learn this loophole was allowed.

When gun owners and groups circle the wagons and say bump stock should be allowed it makes it that much harder to maintain credibility with average people. That makes us all look bad. Bad stupid or bad liars. As for how a law is written and unintended (or perhaps intended) stuff happen, that is a chance with any law. Trump has to sign off, it up to him to have it reviewed. Hopefully by an advisor and groups (like NRA) that has not been unreasonable and lost their credibility.

I think a bump ban should be a law and not a bureaucratic regulation. The ATF had that opportunity. A 'temporary' regulation to ban more sales, pending a law would make sense.
 
Average citizens- “civilians don’t need weapons of war”
Gun Owners - “ARs are semi auto, not the same as a military rifle.”, “one trigger pull equals one bullet fired”.

Average citizen sees an event on the news that sounds like full auto... killed a lot of people.
Gun Owners- “it’s still a semiautomatic rifle”
Gun Owners- “AR15s are hardly used in crimes”... then there’s three or four mass shootings in a row in which AR15s were used.


What’s the public supposed to think?
 
The bump stock is being banned for the wrong reasons.Its a distraction.It won't make anyone safer.
I don't have a bumpstock.I don't want one.If you offered me one,I'd say "No thanks"
I'm not a fan. Ammo and barrels are expensive.

The bump stocks at the Las Vegas shooting (just an opinion.I was not there) I'm sure increased the chaos and terror and noise.The bumpstock is great fuel for media and politicians to exploit.

I don't want to think,write about,or analyze shooting people.
I don't know of anyone who is a hunter or competitive shooter ,including combat shooters,that uses a bumpstock when hitting the target counts.
it might be weird to say,but this dirtbag using a bumpstock might have done more harm with precision shooting than he could making noise and emptying magazines with a bump stock.
Which means its a stupid law/regulation clamored for with the wrong reasons.
And we ought to take our laws and regulations more seriously than to bargain with them. The NRA is perfectly correct to oppose .
I recently saw the movie "Darkest Hour" about Churchill.
It perfectly portrayed the sickness of the policies of appeasement
 
When they get bump stocks banned, within three months, they'll be clamoring for banning some other evil implement. And another. And this will go on 'till we are disarmed completely. I could not care less for bump stocks. I have never needed or wanted one. But it's a way to get the camel's nose under the tent flap. We should fight the banning of anything that we don't get something in return for. The Antis don't "compromise;" they just make demands. That isn't winning, as far as I can see.
 
When gun owners and groups circle the wagons and say bump stock should be allowed it makes it that much harder to maintain credibility with average people. That makes us all look bad. Bad stupid or bad liars. As for how a law is written and unintended (or perhaps intended) stuff happen, that is a chance with any law. Trump has to sign off, it up to him to have it reviewed. Hopefully by an advisor and groups (like NRA) that has not been unreasonable and lost their credibility.
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Machine guns manufactured after 1986 should be legal and accessible to those who are law abiding citizens of the U.S. The bump-stock is an inventive device that permits semi-autos to fire fast and somewhat accurately simulating full-auto fire. I see nothing wrong with this. It is legal. It is allowed under the laws as they are written. Rescind the Hughes Amendment and I won't give a crap about bump-stocks. But, until then, I support the ownership and use of bump stocks 100%.
 
Bump stocks are pointless I think but an executive order to ban them is crazy. He’s just another politician. Why lie, might as well say he was for gun control. He could’ve got hilary’s voters.
 
Average citizens- “civilians don’t need weapons of war”
Gun Owners - “ARs are semi auto, not the same as a military rifle.”, “one trigger pull equals one bullet fired”.

Average citizen sees an event on the news that sounds like full auto... killed a lot of people.
Gun Owners- “it’s still a semiautomatic rifle”
Gun Owners- “AR15s are hardly used in crimes”... then there’s three or four mass shootings in a row in which AR15s were used.
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Your logic is exactly why I would spend exactly zero political capital trying to defend bump stocks. It is a fairly short span of 5-6 years or so that we've gone from "AR15s have been used in like .1% of crimes" to a significant number of high profile events with very large death tolls. Before last October, bump stocks weren't on gun banners radar. Hell they weren't on many firearms enthusiasts radar. An AR is a very efficient tool f commit a mass shooting with. Like it or not, it is no longer a precedent and becoming the standard. We will need all the political capital we can muster to stave off a federal AWB. That's why I'm OK with waiving bye-bye to bump stocks. I'm even OK with raising the purchase age to 21 and UBCs. I'm in the minority on this forum with those stances, but I take an absolutist stance with ARs or pretty much any additional firearm specific (or platform) ban. Like it or not the spirit of the 2A is to ensure that government doesn't become too cozy in oppression of its citizens. Having the functional equivalent (yeah we don't have select fire, but it is not needed) of the firearm as the government arm that would try to enforce this oppression is paramount to the 2A being functional in today's big government age.
 
That's why I'm OK with waiving bye-bye to bump stocks.
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I'm not ok with this. I am not for banning a device that is completely legal under the law which was written by gun-banners in the first place.

The ONLY thing that would change my mind on bump stocks would be the repeal of the Hughes Amendment. If they repealed Huges, so that we have access to machine guns, even though they need to be registered and more extensive background checks are required, I'd agree with banning bump stocks.
 
As most of us know there is great controversy over an out right ban on a device called a bump fire stock. Part of the Public want it and even some gun owners. President Trump wants the DOJ to interpret the Machine Gun ban of 1934 to include the so called bump fire stock. Since this stock allows a semi automatic weapon to fire as a “fast semi auto weapon,” I personally fail to see how the DOJ can legally ban the bump stock as a machine gun under the current law as it is written. The bump stock does not fall under the category of “single function of the trigger” as it was written in 1934. If it did, I would think that Congress would have made it mandatory to attached speedometers to all semi automatic weapons.

Example, part of the law states:

(b) Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

This is not about bump stocks. It’s about twisting a law. If bump stocks are banned under this law then there is nothing to stop the Government from banning any semi auto weapon that they deem fit under this same law?

Pandora’s Box:
As we know - All semi auto weapons can be made to fire full auto.
NOW, by looking at this law, who gets to determine the definition of ”readily restored”?
The ATF?
The DOJ?
The President?

Who will determine the length of time of the ”readily restored” clause? 5 minutes? 30 minutes? 1 hour? A Day?
Again The DOJ? The President? The ATF?

There are millions of other laws in America that have nothing to do with guns that, given this same scenario, would also fall victim to this insanity.

Bump fire stocks are a State and Congressional issue and that’s that! We don’t have a King yet, but it looks like America is well on its way!
 
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