Breaking up a fight
- Thread starter mvpel
- Start date
Horsehockey.
Our intrepid crimebuster needlessly inserted himself into a situation with which he had, charitably, a fleeting understanding, and introduced handguns into what was, at that point, a fist fight.
Calling 9-1-1 is not "doing nothing." Being a good witness is not doing nothing. Keeping yourself in one piece to protect your loved ones is also not "doing nothing." Since mvpel never suggests anyone was about to get his ticket punched permanently, there was no need to wade in. I've seen cases where the combatants suddenly find common cause, turn on their would-be rescuers, and escalate a knuckle-headed knuckle-dusting into a genuine, skull-stomping brawl. Being the "third man in" is bad juju in life, as in hockey.
One has to attribute it to Divine Providence that mvpel didn't end up stabbed, shot, or having felt himself compelled to shoot one of the original combatants. This scenario had about a score of possible denouements, nineteen of them very bad indeed. Thank God mvpel walked away from this one and got to sleep in his own bed.
Our intrepid crimebuster needlessly inserted himself into a situation with which he had, charitably, a fleeting understanding, and introduced handguns into what was, at that point, a fist fight.
Calling 9-1-1 is not "doing nothing." Being a good witness is not doing nothing. Keeping yourself in one piece to protect your loved ones is also not "doing nothing." Since mvpel never suggests anyone was about to get his ticket punched permanently, there was no need to wade in. I've seen cases where the combatants suddenly find common cause, turn on their would-be rescuers, and escalate a knuckle-headed knuckle-dusting into a genuine, skull-stomping brawl. Being the "third man in" is bad juju in life, as in hockey.
One has to attribute it to Divine Providence that mvpel didn't end up stabbed, shot, or having felt himself compelled to shoot one of the original combatants. This scenario had about a score of possible denouements, nineteen of them very bad indeed. Thank God mvpel walked away from this one and got to sleep in his own bed.
OneInTheChamber
New member
It's the "right" thing to intervene, but when carrying a concealed handgun; I'd be a lot more prone to letting someone else do it.
I admire you courage; but must say that:
1. It could have all gone fine, like it happened for you.
2. It could have gotten you beat up a little and solve the situation at your expense.
3. You could have been seriously hurt; knocked out or whatever and could've died.
4. Could've gotten out of control; you draw and shoot two guys that would've gotten shot if you wouldn't have entered. You could be held very responsible for this.
Its a chance, you either solve it or it exponentially grows out of control and someone ends up dead.
Chase
I admire you courage; but must say that:
1. It could have all gone fine, like it happened for you.
2. It could have gotten you beat up a little and solve the situation at your expense.
3. You could have been seriously hurt; knocked out or whatever and could've died.
4. Could've gotten out of control; you draw and shoot two guys that would've gotten shot if you wouldn't have entered. You could be held very responsible for this.
Its a chance, you either solve it or it exponentially grows out of control and someone ends up dead.
Chase
azredhawk said:
I think this is likely why my friend intervened, telling the two guys to cool it. He's had dinner at this particular restaurant every Monday evening for the past two years or more, and various other times as well since he's rather fond of one of the waitresses there.
What's interesting is that this sort of thing is getting to the point of being routine in another city outside its nightclubs, but he's said in all the time he's lived in this city he's never seen anything like this happen in its downtown, ever.
carrying a ccw weapon if anything, you should be less intervening and confrontational than ever before. Having a gun does not a policeman make. The best you should have done was called the police. The gun is for your protection against an inevitable threat of great bodily harm against you, it's a last resort and final item to use. Do not purposely put yourself in any of harms way like that again. You would almost certainly wind up the loser in that situation. either killed or put in jail for turning a common fist fight into a one sided gun fight.
edited to say rule #1 about surviving gun fight= avoid gun fight. even if it is only one party carrying dont create uneccesary risk.
edited to say rule #1 about surviving gun fight= avoid gun fight. even if it is only one party carrying dont create uneccesary risk.losangeles
New member
I'm with the majority on this one: Do not intervene.
That's my position based on growing up on the rougher streets of LA. If two thugs are going at it, for whatever reason you don't know, let them at it. Call 911 if you like. I've seen such in things before -- Crips versus Bloods -- fighting over silliness. If you have the nerve to intervene, they both may take you down before resuming their hostilities. Oh, you have a gun! So you could shoot them if they do that? Will you have made things better?
That's my position based on growing up on the rougher streets of LA. If two thugs are going at it, for whatever reason you don't know, let them at it. Call 911 if you like. I've seen such in things before -- Crips versus Bloods -- fighting over silliness. If you have the nerve to intervene, they both may take you down before resuming their hostilities. Oh, you have a gun! So you could shoot them if they do that? Will you have made things better?
Bad idea getting involved in the scuffle.
Noble? Maybe. But still a bad idea.
The intent is to settle down the situation and make things all nice and happy, but by introducing one or two guns to a fight that you didn't have to engage is just foolish.
Okay, let's say it did get completely out of hand once you and your friend started "helping".
You end up shooting someone, sure, maybe he was drawing down on you at that instant, but the fact remains, AND WILL BE POINTED OUT IN COURT, that you did not have to participate in the first place, and since you knew you had a gun, you knew that you were entering a potential shooting, even if the others did not know you were packing.
Regardless of the outcome you experienced, you did inadvertantly escalate the situation.
You don't think so?
Really? Then what exactly do you call it when a two person pushing match becomes a four person scuffle with AT LEAST two guns present?
Sounds like an escalation to me. And it was willing. That is the kicker. You had the chance to leave, but stayed and added a gun to the fight.
Even if it was never drawn or fired, it WAS added to the fight since you, as a participant in the fight, were aware of its presence and you had access to it.
Unless you, your loved one(s), or an obviously-overpowered obviously-innocent person is in IMMEDIATE risk of death or great bodily harm, it is STUPID to get involved unless you have no other recourse, like leaving.
But, if you want to stick your neck out and possibly go to jail, or shoot someone, or get shot... then go ahead, keep looking for and engaging trouble.
Again, I respect the intent of your intervention, but it really wasn't a good idea.
-Kframe
Noble? Maybe. But still a bad idea.
The intent is to settle down the situation and make things all nice and happy, but by introducing one or two guns to a fight that you didn't have to engage is just foolish.
Okay, let's say it did get completely out of hand once you and your friend started "helping".
You end up shooting someone, sure, maybe he was drawing down on you at that instant, but the fact remains, AND WILL BE POINTED OUT IN COURT, that you did not have to participate in the first place, and since you knew you had a gun, you knew that you were entering a potential shooting, even if the others did not know you were packing.
Regardless of the outcome you experienced, you did inadvertantly escalate the situation.
You don't think so?
Really? Then what exactly do you call it when a two person pushing match becomes a four person scuffle with AT LEAST two guns present?
Sounds like an escalation to me. And it was willing. That is the kicker. You had the chance to leave, but stayed and added a gun to the fight.
Even if it was never drawn or fired, it WAS added to the fight since you, as a participant in the fight, were aware of its presence and you had access to it.
Unless you, your loved one(s), or an obviously-overpowered obviously-innocent person is in IMMEDIATE risk of death or great bodily harm, it is STUPID to get involved unless you have no other recourse, like leaving.
But, if you want to stick your neck out and possibly go to jail, or shoot someone, or get shot... then go ahead, keep looking for and engaging trouble.
Again, I respect the intent of your intervention, but it really wasn't a good idea.
-Kframe
Two equally matched and equally willing combatants does not call for my intervention.
I have been known to watch a particularly good match.
Two on one or King Kong vs Bonzo is something that I would consider sticking my nose into.
The only time I ever butted into a duel was at a local buffet
A couple of head butters were blocking the entrance and I was hungry and in a hurry
I held my cell phone up to eye level with my arm extended out in front of me and semi-loudly said 9-1-1 as I was pushing the buttons. Then I looked at them and said
"It's up to you guys, do I push send or do you get your heads out of your asses"
Apparently I'm a fat old man that does things to his mother but it worked and I was able to stand about 15 feet from them throughout the incident
I have been known to watch a particularly good match.
Two on one or King Kong vs Bonzo is something that I would consider sticking my nose into.
The only time I ever butted into a duel was at a local buffet
A couple of head butters were blocking the entrance and I was hungry and in a hurry
I held my cell phone up to eye level with my arm extended out in front of me and semi-loudly said 9-1-1 as I was pushing the buttons. Then I looked at them and said
"It's up to you guys, do I push send or do you get your heads out of your asses"
Apparently I'm a fat old man that does things to his mother but it worked and I was able to stand about 15 feet from them throughout the incident
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RioShooter
New member
Myob
stephen426 said
Excellent advise for everyone with a CHL. My CHL instructor told my class not to adopt a "protect the public" attitude just because you carry a gun. That's the job of LEOs, not CHLs.
stephen426 said
Excellent advise for everyone with a CHL. My CHL instructor told my class not to adopt a "protect the public" attitude just because you carry a gun. That's the job of LEOs, not CHLs.
NDTerminator
New member
As a LEO with nearly 30 years on the street, Firearms Instructor, Defensive Tactics Instructor, and High Risk Entry Team Leader, I'll give you the following advice...
Don't put yourself in the middle of the situation. A. You will probably escalate it, and B. As you are not a sworn officer, you have neither the legal power to do anything, or legal protection from a lawsuit stemming from any action you take.
Call 911, let the LEOs handle it. Cooperate fully as a witness if needed...
Don't put yourself in the middle of the situation. A. You will probably escalate it, and B. As you are not a sworn officer, you have neither the legal power to do anything, or legal protection from a lawsuit stemming from any action you take.
Call 911, let the LEOs handle it. Cooperate fully as a witness if needed...