Break in period necessary??

What a world we live in.....

Sure, everything should work perfectly, right out of the box. BUT, some things don't. We are spoiled by electronics, small appliances,etc, whig generally work perfectly out of the box, or don't work at all.

But guns are a little different. Yes, and good quality pistol ought to work flawlessly right out of the box, and the majority will. With a certain type and brand of ammo. Quality FMJ (not bargin ammo) usually works flawlessly. Usually.

But since gun makers cannot control or even know exactly which ammo you are going to use, a "break in" period makes good sense to me.

Want your auto to work flawlessly out of the box, guaranteed? Spend a few thousand on it, instead of a few hundred. It still may not work flawlessly right away, but at least you've got a guarantee!

Seecamp guns have a fine reputation. No doubt he takes pride in that, and in the work he and his people do. Seecamps guns are also rather pricey for what they are, and most folks consider it money well spent. And he is welcome to his opinion, justified by his experience.

Myself, I think a "break in" period is needed, for all new guns. Because it isn't just the new gun that is getting settled in, it is the shooter, as well.

It doesn't matter the intended use, spending some time shooting a new pistol, getting used to the controls, and how they operate, how the trigger breaks, best grip hold, etc, is never a bad idea. And I would think it a vital one if the pistol is intended to be used as a defensive weapon. Growing up (and old) with pistols that have down as the off position of the safety, and switiching to one that uses up as the off position would not be a good thing, without taking some range time to get used to it.

I expect that if a gun has a major glitch, its going to show up very soon, when I start shooting it. Major glitch, its defective, and back to maker it goes. Minor glitches can, and do happens sometimes, and I am willing to shoot them a bit, to see if they self correct. Often, this happens. I just finished putting 200rnds "break in" through a Kahr P45, for a friend who cannot shoot for about a month due to surgery. Total of 6 malfunctions, 4 failures to lock up completely (the last one did close all on its own after about a second), and two failures to feed (slide closed on empty chamber). 150rnds ball, then 50 rnds Speer 230gr Gold Dots. One of the failures to feed was with gold dot, in the first 10 rnds. The last 40 were flawless. Would I trust this gun? Not completely, not yet. But it was obvious that as it got "shot in", it was getting better.

I realize that while guns should work "perfectly right out of the box", due to the complex nature of all the variables involved, they may not. They are like, and yet unlike other machines.
 
+1 for 44 AMP

I see a gun as another piece of machinery that requires a certain time period for me to understand it and make sure it functions as intended with the ammo, mags, etc. that I choose to use. I think maybe the term "break in period" could be better substituted for some of the other words mentioned but the end result is the same.

You should spend a certain amount of time and effort "testing" your new firearm under controlled circumstances before you are tested with it. I had a brand new colt combat elite that would not fire rounds due to something being screwy from the factory. After that, I am much more cognizant of such things.

It is fine to assume a company makes a good protect right out of the gate but it is irresponsible on your part to not validate that assumption before the chips are down. I like the phrase: Trust but verify.
 
It is fine to assume a company makes a good protect right out of the gate but it is irresponsible on your part to not validate that assumption before the chips are down. I like the phrase: Trust but verify.

Again, who has argued otherwise?

Which isn't to say that a prudent shooter who intends to rely on a firearm for self-defense shouldn't run a minimum number of rounds through it before counting on it when the chips are down (my personal standard is at least 500 rounds without incident).
 
Once again, a gun is man made, a tool, all though it will, ah should work out of the box like most things man made needs to adjusted, fine tuned or "broken in". It's because of the thing we call workmanship and quality control.:rolleyes:
 
dgludwig,

I was not attacking you. In fact I was agreeing with your point...albeit somewhat poorly. My point is the same as yours. Yes, they should work. No I won't trust them.
 
I find that beyond breaking in a new gun, it is more important to break myself in to the gun, I have owned two pistols that i shot horribly the first couple timees out and now I am fairly confident with.
 
Face the facts about metal machining - any two pieces of metal that rub together will move more smoothly if given a wear-in period. Machined metal, even if ground and polished is NOT "smooth". I'm NOT saying the gun will not work. I AM saying it will work smoother and easier if broken in.

BTW - that's one reason a Keltec costs $300 and a Seecamp $500. Ever hear of the Keltec "fluff 'n' buff"? Ever hear of people doing "fluff 'n' buff" on other guns when they don't function properly? You're doing $200 worth of machining to SMOOTH OUT the parts that Keltec didn't, but Seecamp did. Even so, the Seecamp WILL benefit from breaking in.

And I'm outta this one...
 
Expecting a gun to be polished perfectly shows an ignorance of the manufacturing process.
As Zealot said, you eed to break yourself into the gun also. I wouldn't carry a gun I had put less than 300 rounds through. Most in failure drills.
 
All too often folks get "Shake down" and "Break in" confused.

If you carry / use a gun for any serious use then you OUGHT to shake it down when new, prove it to yourself in terms of function and reliability ESP. with your chosen carry ammo and get used to any unique aspects of it's manual of arms.

This is no diffirent then when the navy takes a ship to sea for trials / shake down. Minor issues may creep up but no one expects to see the new pride of the fleet return to port under tow.

Same goes for guns... an occasonal glitch or mag springs so tight it's hard to get the last round in may be encountered... continual jams, misfires or anything of the like SHOULD NOT be the norm and represent failure of the new gun.

That any gun / machine will "break in" / "wear in" to a better / smoother state of function is a given, the question is DOES it work when new. All of us are more than happy when a gun gets smoother / nicer over time, however no one wants to be told that a gun suffering jams will get better with more shooting. An infact as I have experinced and as Mr. Seecamp points out guns that jam rarely if ever get better with more shooting.

Many folks here describe out of the box reliability that I would not be happy with and that I dare say most serious users of arms would not find reassuring. If that works for you fine, but many, many gun makers make products that run perfect to near perfect out of the box so I expect a higher standard of produciton and QC. The fact that many makers of all types of gun can do this is defacto proof the others could as well if they chose to try a bit harder.

This discussion of break in / shake down is amongst friends and is of little bearing each of us having our own opinions. Where break in becomes very contentious is when a maker tells a user to just keep shooting a gun that jams once per mag and attributes said gun's failures to "break in" Kahr did this with me and I was none too happy about it and will no longer buy or reccomend their products. Sorry folks a glitch or too and you could talk me into continuing to work with the gun and it's maker... a failure everey mag and attributing it to break in is unmitigated BS.

I honestly see many similar issues with some 1911 makers who attribute "problem" guns to the lack of break in.. to the point that many believe that 1911 must have long break in's to be reliable or function. Which of course is not true.
 
This discussion of break in / shake down is amongst friends and is of little bearing each of us having our own opinions. Where break in becomes very contentious is when a maker tells a user to just keep shooting a gun that jams once per mag and attributes said gun's failures to "break in" Kahr did this with me and I was none too happy about it and will no longer buy or reccomend their products. Sorry folks a glitch or too and you could talk me into continuing to work with the gun and it's maker... a failure everey mag and attributing it to break in is unmitigated BS.

Well said. I especially like the terms "break-in" and "shake-down" and the distinction you draw between the two. I don't think too many people would disagree that continued use with metal meshing against metal will generally result in a smoother action over time. I just reject the rationale of a company that directs me to keep shooting their malfunctioning pistol with my ammunition with the hope that it will finally start working the way it should have from the beginning. A hope that rarely materializes.
 
Regardless of whether or not it is required, I know that the first thing I do, the first chance I get, has always been the same with a new gun. Sometimes even on the way home.:D A new toy means playtime at any age, but the living room or the front yard doesn't quite seem to do it for me anymore.;)
 
what do you do

Buy a lawn mower- if its doesn’t work – what do you do ?
take it back and they either fix or replace. RIGHT. Or
show me where I am doing something wrong.
Why should a pistol, or any other kind of armament be different? I think not
Though I do want a solid trust in my protector. Right
If I make something I will stand behind it – period
The only difference in a pistol is, I have to take it all apart, wipe it down, talk to it, rub oil all over it, then talk nice to it, and put it all back together, and off to the range we go. It better work or it goes back.
I want what I paid for. Money hard earned – I expect the same. No slack for me or them….
 
I own a seecamp in 32 acp.I put over 200 rounds total of different types of ammo recommended by LARRY SEECAMP. It worked fine it is my E .D. C.:D
 
I'm not a believer that a gun should be "broken" just to function reliable. It should work straight out of the box. Sure, if it's a brand new gun, it's expected that there may be some roughness to the action, but it should still work. If it doesn't, then the manufacturer did not do their job. Instead of spending extra $$ shooting XXX rounds out of it in hopes any issues working itself out, I'm a proponent of fixing the issue right there and then. Either myself or by the manufacturer.
 
Can one of the "Guns need a break-in period" folks explain exactly what gets broken in? What material change occurs from shot 1 to shot 201?

Does a spring work better?
Will the barrel and breech fit better?
Is the trigger changed?
Does the magazine feed better?

I don't get it. I've yet to see a gun change in any way, shape, or form in only a few hundred rounds. Someone please explain what changes are made inside the workings of the pistol.
 
Our senior command use to be issued Walther PPK if we wanted one. Few would run 100% new out of the box. Usually within 300 rds they would smooth out and run fine after that.
Anyone who shoots a lot of comp knows that triggers smooth out after running them for a while.
 
How much do you think the factories testfire anyway?

I don't know, but I'm thinking not a few hundred rounds.

I have very few handguns bought brand new, and most of them have been revolvers. One I bought new was a Browning BDA .45 (Sig P220) in 1980.

It functioned flawlessly from the start, but after a few hundred rounds, the DA trigger was noticably lighter.

Breaking in, whatever you call it has benefits. Parts rub on each other, getting a polish factories can't affort to do. Parts get seated from recoil in a way that only shooting can do. Springs get "worked in", in general, the whole thing gets used to working together.

Auto pistols are a complex balance of many forces, all of which need to be within fairly narrow ranges in order for things to work right.

The weight of the moving parts, spring tension, friction, complex angles moving against each other, and then throw in all the ammo viarables possible to complicate feeding, recoil energy, recoil impulse, etc. Some guns are even sensitive to how they are held during firing.

All these things, and more are calculated for in the design and testing of prototypes. And then there is how well the production guns are built and fitted. Lots and lots of variables. All things considered, its actually a wonder that so many work so well from the box as they do.

You can buy a $50Kcar, but if it knocks and sputters on 87 octane gas (when designed to run on 90) is it the maker's fault?
 
+1 44amp

Personally, I dont believe EVERY new gun is test fired, and I dont think it is neccessary either. You wouldnt like to buy a brand new gun, right out of the box and it looks a little second hand already because it has already fired 500 rounds at the factory? My guess is they randomly pick out a few to test but the majority of them would be checked for correct function only, but not fired. For the 2 reasons, you dont want to buy a brand new USED gun, and it wouldnt be economicly sound to run 500 rounds thru each gun (cost of ammo & to pay someone to test them all). Your new gun wouldnt cost you $600, it would cost you $2,000 and you wouldnt want to buy it coz its too expensive.

I am sure some new guns have "issues" but from what I understand, if you buy a new gun and it isnt working correctly, a quality manufacturer will give it personal attention back at the factory, and customer satisfaction is the result.

Yes, I guess, the buyer becomes the final tester of the firearm, and yes, you might get one with a few niggly problems, but the gun is a mass produced item, it is NEW when you get it, and they will fix it if you find you have real problems. Beats the heck out of paying twice the amount to begin with.

Like some others have said, you dont expect the new car you buy to have 1000 miles on it when you buy it new? you would call that a second hand car. The new car owner has a warranty period to point out deficiencies.

Give the gun manufacturers a break, they have QA, component costs, saleries for employees to assemble the guns, insurances etc..... but the bottom line is they have to be able to sell it at a profit, but at a price YOU will pay for it.

And just think, you might get a really good one first up, but if you have a 'problem child' and send it back to the factory, for your trouble, the person that checks/fixes it might just tune it right up for you and you could get back a real ripper :D

The joys of buying 'mass produced' items I guess :rolleyes:

Life goes on ;)
 
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