Branch Davidians to be released

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Antipitas, you are very wrong on this. Your post clearly says Christian Bible. You can't be part Christian. You can't pick and choose which part of the Bible you like and neglect the rest. Your uneducated post, coupled with the fact that you can't spell (Armageddan, Buddists), leads me to believe that you might be better off sitting this one out!
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If you have ever read the New Testament, the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are all basically the same story in different perspectives, that of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. There are contradictions between the stories, the Bible is now and will always be about Interpretation. You are wrong about this one Savage, ask your married Minister, celibate Priest, or your gay/lesbian Pastor (3 glaring examples).

They got what they deserved.
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This is just offensive and sickening. The children got what they deserved.

Again I ask Savage...Did you watch the Waco hearings? The BATFE was saddled with a lot of the blame for the outcome even among the liberals on the panel. The ultimate action by the FBI and BATFE was indefensible, they couldn't even mount an argument in their own defense..
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Well???? Did you???
 
Antipitas...

Any religion that uses the Bible does not pick and choose what they want and what they don't want from the Bible. Yes, Catholics are different from Baptists, but that doesn't mean that they dont worship God. They are just different flavors. Everybody has slightly different ways of doing things when it comes to the Christian religion, but when it all comes down to it on Sunday they all open that book with the words "Holy Bible" on the front. They don't say "We all know we don't particularly like this book, so we'll go ahead and skip that one." "If it were not true, all Christians would be of one single faith". For your information, all Christians are of one single faith. We all have faith that the Bible is true and that Jesus was sent to this Earth, by God, to die for our sins. The Christian religion is black and white. You either believe or you don't. You can't spell and you can't put together a correctly structured sentence. Keeping both of those things in mind, I really don't think I'm ready to take religious advice from you.:rolleyes:
Pipoman...
"You are wrong about this one Savage, ask your married Minister, celibate Priest, or your gay/lesbian Pastor (3 glaring examples)." I have never even heard of a gay or lesbian pastor. That would be someone who picks and chooses the parts of the Bible they like and neglect the rest. I would be finding myself a new church. Also, the first and second example you gave don't prove anything either. Where in the Bible does it say that a Minister cannot be married? Catholics just have a slightly different way of doing things. By the way, you also display fine writing skills. Instead of using a question mark after your "The children got what they deserved." remark, you used a period. So you make the statement that the children got what they deserved. You are a sick individual.
"There are contradictions between the stories, the Bible is now and will always be about Interpretation." Go ahead and point those contradictions out to me. Just because the people who contributed to the Bible interpreted the same events in slightly different ways doesn't mean that the Bible isn't true. You said it yourself. They simply interpreted something in slightly different ways. No pipoman, the children did not get what they deserved. They were innocent. They always are to a certain age. Their parents got what they deserved. They could have sent them out. They could have sent the women out too. They also could have acted like real Christians and obeyed the law. They broke the law in a violent and lethal fashion and were eventually killed. "You live by the gun and you die by the gun" would seem to fit well in this situation. All you guys out there who say they didn't fire first are just plain stupid. We don't know who did, but if I had to bet money, I would guess that the weapon stockpiling crazies fired first. If they didn't then why did they go to the trouble of buying all those guns?
 
Pipo and Antipitas,

Your argument ( while eloquent and quite on target) falls on deaf and biased ears when you try and reason with Savage, He cannot see past the fact that some LEOs who had committed a felony Murder got killed in the foray.

Yes Savage I said MURDER. You may try to sleep with it at night using any justification you can live with (see my earlier post # 109) but the fact remains, and is undisputed, that a heavily armed assult force invaded private property on a mission to "Do their jobs" and fired on civilians un-provoked, and the civilians exercised their rights to defend themselves (remember...the warrant had not been served)

Do me a favor, please don't try and justify what these crazies did with the use of the Bible. It is wrong
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Please elaborate on what the civilians did wrong?

Lets see... they had a cache of weapons, HMMMM...I wonder how many of us have a cache of weapons, bet that would apply to a bunch of us.

They had religious beliefs..... well, bet that applies to a large portion of us,

They returned fire in a defensive manner on someone who fired on them illegally..... Gee, I think that any of us who CCW are prepared and (I hope) trained to react accordingly.

But Wait...YOU can't get past the fact that the folks who orchestrated the assault and fired the first shots were wearing little tin stars. But, thats OK because they had a "warrant".

never mind the fact that they fired on the compound before the warrant was served, and that after the civilians shot one of the poor guys who was "doing his job" were NOT GIVEN the chance to surrender.


Please tell me you have a defense for this indefensible action, other than "They had a legal warrant in hand" or the ubiquitous "They were just doing their job".

Cross the blue line for a moment and think like a human being.
 
I am not a LEO! Nor am I anything close to a LEO.

Not that being a LEO is a bad thing. Once again, someone claims that they were fired on first. NO ONE KNOWS WHO FIRED FIRST!!! Were you there? I didn't think so. So how, IN THE WORLD, could you possibly know who fired first? You are right in the fact that the warrant had not been served. I imagine it is hard to serve a warrant with bullets coming your way. What did the crazies do wrong? They were suspected of having illegal weapons. The government obtained a warrant for a search and proceded to the "compound" to serve this warrant. I THINK that the Davidians opened fire first. That is supposedly why they developed such a large stockpile of weapons in the first place and would make much more sense than the police opening fire for no reason. I didn't say that it couldn't have happened another way. I highly doubt that if the Davidians had come out of the house with their hands up and allowed the government to lawfully search their "compund" that the police would have opened fire! Yes, they had religious beliefs. What those beliefs were I'm not sure of. The one thing I am sure of is that they weren't Christian beliefs.
 
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You don't stockpile weapons(possibly illegaly) and expect the AFT to ignor you.
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SAY WHAT ?!?

I have to say, that's the dumbest thing I've heard in several months (and I've heard Chuck Schumer speak!).

I most certainly DO expect all branches of the government to ignore me if they've no evidence I've done something illegal. And stockpiling guns is not illegal. And as for the "possibly illegal" part - no, that's not definitely illegal, so back to no evidence of doing something illegal. Besides the laws that makes the possession of arms "illegal" are themselves illegal (unconstitutional).
 
OK, I promise I will not quote anymore scripture after this. I am only using this as an example.

Mark 16: 14-18

14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
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Savage Do you or have you ever seen anyone:

1. Drive out demons
2. speak in tongues
3. pick up snake with their hands
4. drink deadly poison
5. place hands on/heal the sick

If not then someone is pickin' an' choosn'.;)
 
Once again I am amazed at the level of stupidity!

Are you saying for this to be true that we would all have to walk around speaking in tongues, driving out demons, picking up snakes, and healing people by touch? Maybe Jesus was speaking of the eleven. Maybe Jesus meant that by "driving out demons", good ministers would bring "bad" people to give up their sinful ways and become devout Christians. Maybe by "speak in new tongues" Jesus meant that we would not swear like the mindless and lost people that do not believe in God. Maybe by "handling snakes and drinking poisons" Jesus meant that he will always be with us and protect us when we are in harms way. A serpent is a common symbol for Satan. Jesus physically removed Demons from Demonized people. In this way he "handled serpents". Maybe by "healing people with their hands" Jesus meant that Christian doctors will heal the sick. As pipoman already stated, it is all about interpretation! Look for an argument elsewhere!
 
Savage,

I must take exception to your argument :

Once again, some idiot claims that they were fired on first
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I believe that our forums require that you may berate the post, not the poster, you have crossed that line, and I do not appreciate it. If you cannot debate an issue without including a personal attack then perhaps you should re-read the rules. And as for calling me an idiot...would you care to compare academic scores? or I.Q.?

As for who fired first, well, we may have to agree to dis-agree. However the hearings that followed the incident seem to point strongly to the fact that LE fired first.

I highly doubt that if the Davidians had come out of the house with their hands up and allowed the government to lawfully search their "compund" that the police would have opened fire
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Sadly, that "theory" was never given a chance.

Yes, they had religious beliefs. What those beliefs were I'm not sure of. The one thing I am sure of is that they weren't Christian beliefs.
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would you please provide one single shred of evidence to support your position?
 
Let me guess...

"And as for calling me an idiot...would you care to compare academic scores? or I.Q.?" You got a 36 on your ACT and have a IQ of 200!:rolleyes: You are also 6 feet 6 inches tall and bench press 700 pounds! You are the perfect human specimen!:rolleyes: Give me a break! This is the internet. The place where you can state whatever you want without having to back it up. As for calling you an idiot, I was wrong. I apologize. Maybe I should call you Einstein instead. As for proof that the davidians weren't Christian, how about some proof that they were?
 
Give me a break! This is the internet. The place where you can state whatever you want without having to back it up.
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Thank you!

As for proof that the davidians weren't Christian, how about some proof that they were?
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They believed in Jesus and his teachings.....


the Defense rests.
 
No they didn't!

Fully believing in Jesus and his teachings would mean that you believe in imitating his life as much as possible. You are supposed to lead by example. Their behavior would lead me to believe that they were nowhere close to true Christians. However, seeing as I am not the one who will ultimately judge them, it is not for me to say whether they were or weren't! I don't believe that they were. That doesn't mean I'm right and that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just my opinion. That's all.
 
OK, Savage you are off my radar now. I will leave you alone with your self. I was pointing out some inconsistencies with your argument and you respond by calling me stupid. Pickn' an' choosn' again I guess.
 
Read again! I never called you stupid.

I did refer to oucast as an idiot earlier. I violated the forum rules. I was wrong and I apologize. I have edited that post to the way it should have read the first time. It will not happen again. However, I never called you stupid. I would prefer for you to respond to the questions at hand and to not post something completely irrelevant. I rebuked you with your own point. As you said, it is all about interpretation! Anyways, back on topic.
 
I was referring to many posts.

Just because a person has a moment of stupidity doesn't make them stupid. Many well educated men have done some pretty stupid things. I do not wish to argue. I was just trying to make a point. I probably culd have left that off. I will give more though to it in the future!
 
This thread is heading in the wrong direction.

Take a deep breath...sssnnniiiifffffff hold it for a 2 seconds and ooooouuuutttttt.

Okay good. Feeling better? Let's stick to the facts.

My last word on visiting this post is......may God forgive those that acted ill of heart in the Waco incident.

Peace to you all in what you believe, may you never know the oppression that some have had to endure.

I'm out.
 
Well I am back tonight and I see no one on either side chose to answer if they would do the same thing in either place. People are interesting, as they spout Gods law and mans law over and over. Gods law has long been dissobeyed and mans laws don't fair any better. The Church speaks and the people do what they want anyway, the government speaks and millions come here anyway.

We have guys here that are against religion and think man has the best way while at the same time they hire illegals to come here and destroy our nation. We have people who follow Gods laws and call people who do the same thing in their religion terrorist.

Koresh made himself and his followers a target by following his religion to the death. The LEOs for the BATF followed their religion to the death. The Muslims follow their religion to the death. We all chose what we live and die for and a dedicated man is something to fear.

In my life I have seen the governments many times kill people who disobeyed them. Governments are the biggest killers in the world. People are forced to join armies to destroy the latest group that has been demonized by the governments. Is it because man is unlawful?

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Leave the sandbox for a few minutes and everyone starts making sand castles without water to hold them together.

Well!

This was a prime example of never posting anything about religion in this forum, even when it was only to explain the behavior of one side of the argument. My bad.

This thread is done.
 
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