Branch Davidians to be released

Status
Not open for further replies.
N

Natty

Moderator
Branch Davidians to be released
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192341,00.html

6 Branch Davidian church members are to be released from prison after serving their time for fighting back when over 70 heavily armed ATF agents attempted to serve a search warrant for stockpiling weapons. 4 ATF agents were killed and 16 wounded in the resulting gunfight.
 
What laws prohibit the stockpiling of legally purchased weapons? Or were these weapons purchased illegally?

Anyone have Lon Horiuchi's email so we can ask him?:p
 
Sad

To me the saddest thing, adding insult to injury, is the fact the "survivors" were prosecuted and convicted for things that they likely did not do. The Govt. to this day will not allow anyone else to examine their evidence.

I personally think it is an abuse of authority to hold EVERYONE involved in a group responsible for EVEYTHING the group does wrong, even if they had not direct part in it. I can see charging a get-away driver with robbery, but if someone is killed by another member of the gang, I don't think the driver should be held liable for the murder. I know it is done every day, and an accepted part of our legal system, but I personally think it is wrong. I also think it is wrong to write laws that make you a criminal if you "should have known". But, that is just me. How about you?
 
rivers if you are implying that 44 amp is some kind of [Edit. Don't do this. LawDog] because he thinks that the Gov was wrong in the whole Waco incident then you my friend are a complete [That's twice. LawDog]. Go take your pro .gov [Enough. LawDog] elsewhere. If I misread your intentions then I apologize:rolleyes:

You like it here? Don't do that kind of thing ever again.

LawDog
 
I guess bad things happen when you shoot people trying to deliver legally issued warrants and then hold the authorities away at gunpoint for 51 days.

Can't say as I miss any of them ...
 
I guess bad things happen when a govt trumps up a case against citizens, then tries to tromp all over their rights. Especially when those citizens have the will and the means to defend themselves. I watched those congressional hearings, a bigger bunch of BS i never saw. The govt BBQ'd those people because it was an opportunity to demonstrate to the American people that the Christian right is a wacked out and dangerous bunch, and need to be dealt with. It clearly was succesful. E
 
How to serve a warrant

If you plan to serve an arrest warrant on an individual you suspect has massive stockpiles of weapons and many followers willing to use them, it is poor planning at best to serve it with 150 armed men at the front door of what is believed to be his 'compound'.

Better by far to have apprehended the primary suspect when he was in town and unaccompanied.

I also have serious issues with the diversity of the excuses forwarded by the BATF for conducting the raid. Child abuse? Department of childrens services, NOT BATF. Drugs? DEA, NOT BATF.

What do you think?
 
All I know is ... they were serving properly issued warrants.

It doesn't matter whether you have 1 gun or 1000, live in a "compound" or a trailer, are a left wing or right wing nut or something in between -- we're a nation of laws, and when agents come with warrants it's your place to comply and then fight them in the courts.

That's the whole point ... the protections of the constitution are not something you can carry in your pocket and wave over a dead cop as a "get out of jail free" card. They are protections of law, and are used in a court of law when your rights have been violated.

Four LEO's trying to do their job that day were killed. And for 51 days they stood defiant against the laws of the land with guns instead of lawyers.

The parents who kept their children their to be killed, instead of protecting them as the bible commands, doubtless were facing judgement of a different kind long before the fires went out.

It was a messy situation ... I don't doubt it could have been handled better ... but bottom line is they got what they deserved.

RIP Koresh ... too bad you didn't die before you got so many innocents killed.
 
:barf:
Fatta is to be released next month in San Diego, where he was moved to a halfway house last year and now works at a restaurant. He was not at the compound during the standoff and was at a gun show in Austin during the shootout with the ATF. He said will live with his family after his release.
Click to expand...

Justice at its finest.:barf:
 
Properly issued warrants?

My question is, why would the BATF be serving warrants for child abuse or illegal drugs? Neither of these are under the jurisdiction of the BATF.

I am sorry for the agents who were killed and for the women and children who were burned to death or crushed in collapsed bunkers.

Did you know that the first shots fired actually came from the agents serving the warrants and that the first casualty was Koresh's young daughter?

I believe DK was a nut. Possibly even a dangerous nut. The government has never made a convincing case to me however. As for complying with officers serving a warrant, I agree....to a point. Anyone who fires on my family will be met with fire no matter who they are.

We will never know the whole truth of Waco.....I think we should be careful when we say those who died there 'got what they deserve'.
 
The biggest question now is whether Garand Illusion and anyone else who thinks like him has actually read anything beyond the government's propaganda regarding the events of Waco. Properly issued warrants? That alone discounts anything else said. Go educate yourself, then get back to us.
 
Watching the government trying to hand out justice is like watching a drunk moose trying to pick a bouquet of flowers. They sure try to do it, but they sure are sloppy about it.
 
The BATF came out with MP5's, not "properly issued warrants". IIRC not one of the agents in the initial raid even HAD a copy of the warrant with them. If they didn't they sure didn't plan on showing it and asking nicely to look around a bit.
 
No need for education for the points I'm making ...

Were the warrants properly issued to the right agency? Again, that's for a court of law to decide. You fight a bad warrant with a lawyer, not an AK47.

I don't know who fired the first shot; I wasn't there. I would also defend my family in a situation where people opened fire on them.

But bottom line is ... 51 days later they were still in a standoff. Yes, I would defend my family. But when I realized what had happened and that the government wasn't going to back down, whatever I thought about my own situation I WOULD get my remaining children and the rest of the innocents out of there. That's what a parent does.

And here's a clue for y'all ... if you're in a standoff with the government, and you hear on the radio that all over America hundreds of thousands are marching to support you and threatening to bring down the government unless you are set free, then you just might be the beginning of a revolution. Keep on going and fighting, because you're doing the right thing.

If no one is marching anywhere ... then you're just a nut standing off the government, and they WILL bring in sufficient force to either bring you to justice or bring justice to you (ever seen any police agency just back off a standoff where some of their own were killed and shrug and say ... oh well?). At least get your children and the innocents out of the line of fire before continuing with your own suicide.

I seriously doubt the agents fired the first shot unless they were already in seiruos danger (i.e. had guns pointed at them, in which case they were 100% justified). Though one has to wonder why Koresh had one of his daughters in the line of fire when it was clear an operation was under way (again -- bad parents who have a LOT to answer for).

A small group of agents might serve warrants against a group of nuts in a compound if they assumed the group would follow the rule of law and allow them in; but they certainly wouldn't launch a frontal assault with that small of a force and so undergunned.

BATF agents generally aren't suicide attackers; they're government employees working to retirement. they want to go home to their families.

Much like we all do. Koresh murdered 4 of them.

And he paid for it.
 
I guess bad things happen when you shoot people trying to deliver legally issued warrants and then hold the authorities away at gunpoint for 51 days.

Can't say as I miss any of them ...
Click to expand...

+1

Exactly! Doesn't matter who is serving them, as long as a judge signs the warrant. Actually, almost all warrants have language such as "Greetings: To any sheriff, police, marshall, coroner, or otherwise law enforcement agent...herein fail not...." and go on about how the individuals named on the warrant are to be brought before a judge of the court. For example, I can swear out a warrant, and a different agency, regardless of who they are, can serve it as long as they have legal jurisdiction to do so...And well, Waco Texas is inside the United States.

Sometimes I think some of the people on gun forums are the same ones that cheer when a law enforcement officer or fire fighter is killed on duty.

:barf:
 
Sometimes I think some of the people on gun forums are our own worst enemies...

First we were told it was drugs, then guns, then sexual abuse. We were not told that Koresh could have been apprehended at any time prior, during his morning breakfasts at the same place as the county Sheriff... :rolleyes: We were told there were gobs of illegal weapons. There weren't. We were told the children were the main concern. They weren't. We were told they needed to surrender, then they were refused the opportunity. And in the end they, our government, burned how many children?

Anyone who can say they "got what they deserved", I can't express my opinion here of such a statement...

Oh, BTW, Citizens all across the country were voicing their support for the Davidians and, IIRC, a fair number showd up down there eventually, so I guess by your position they needed to keep on fighting, eh? OTOH, IIRC, only about 5% of the population actively supported our Revolution, so maybe they should have quit? Public opinion is definitely important in these things...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top