Blasphemy to many...but a welcome tool to the shed for me.

Status
Not open for further replies.
the idea here is that its advantages are small when you apply common sense to it.


Some would say it is no different than this.....

I mostly buy collectible guns

Last I knew, folks in America were free to have an opinion and to buy what they wanted. While many of us don't always agree with the choices of others, not all of us feel the need to criticize and belittle those choices. They are what they are....just different choices. Since all of us are here because of our interests in firearms and our support of the 2nd Amendment, it makes more sense to me to support those choices whether I agree with them or not, than to knock them. The antis have enough fodder the way it is.
 
Once again, the governor/judge claims another ignorant victim. When will it end! Only knowledge can save us.
Interesting that when the use of a laser sight comes up Michael Bane's wisdom is used to defend it, However you must now think that he is "another ignorant victim" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOq9a8sAHfg

"You have a very viable self defense cartridge in a very viable self defense gun" Michel Bane

Contrary to some Mall Ninjas who believe they are destined to get into an extended, long range gun battle to save the world, the 410/45 Colt handgun platform can be very useful for close range self defense.
I have changed from the Winchester PDX-1 410 rounds to Federal Personal Defense Handgun 000 buck loads. First two up in my PD Poly is the buckshot, followed by 5 45 Colt Winchester PDX-1 225 Gr. Bonded. Poly rides in a holster in a space between the driver's seat, and center seat of my Doge Ram as an unpleasant surprise for any armed attempted carjacker!
 
Buck

I see what you're trying to say. I don't think me buying collectible guns as an investment, goes against common sense (was that the analogy?) but I just don't agree with people who think their governor or judge is better than whats out there for SD. Its more or less become a pet peeve of mine.

pfletch,

I don't really agree that the judge/governor is better at any range. It still comes down to hits, and I don't how a scatter of buckshot is better than one well placed 9mm +P round. Remember that the G19 has better range, better accuracy, more capacity. I also think the follow up shots would be quicker. So its probably more like 2 9mm rounds vs one buck shot round. Once again, I don't see the point, the advantage, the reasoning, or anything. Guns like the 1911 and G19 are tried and true. They are issued guns, they fought in wars/conflicts, there is a ton of proof to their effectiveness. Buying a gun only because there could be a slight advantage at 10 yds or less is foolish. How do you know what the engagement will be? Do you want this kind of a revolver/shotgun for more than one attacker? What if there was some range? I'd rather have a gun that really doesn't have a weakness than one that may excel in one category.
 
Last edited:
Contrary to some Mall Ninjas who believe they are destined to get into an extended, long range gun battle to save the world, the 410/45 Colt handgun platform can be very useful for close range self defense.
I have changed from the Winchester PDX-1 410 rounds to Federal Personal Defense Handgun 000 buck loads. First two up in my PD Poly is the buckshot, followed by 5 45 Colt Winchester PDX-1 225 Gr. Bonded. Poly rides in a holster in a space between the driver's seat, and center seat of my Doge Ram as an unpleasant surprise for any armed attempted carjacker!

I'm not a "mall ninja" when I say that you never know for sure how the SD scenario will happen, and what the circumstances will be. Obviously a 410/45 colt shotgun/revolver can be useful for close ranges, but that is pretty much the only use! Thats it! So did you ever consider what one you would use? If you carry it and you're out, be very careful with buckshot! If you say "I would not carry it with buckshot" then why not carry a 45 auto? If you say "I want buckshot for indoors" then I have to wonder why you want it and why not a 12 gauge defensive type shotgun? It would be more power yet. I still say its a solution without a problem. For every SD circumstance, there is something better or just as good.
 
Again to Winchester 73

Well when you bring up "war" winners you need to look at what most fought said wars with (M-1,M-14,M-1 carbines,and M-16 rifles). no handgun has been used to win a war all by it's lonesome.

Also fights aren't the hollywood style martial arts matches,both threat and would be victim are trying to make it through the encounter with as much of themselves intact as possible.

With standard caliber single projectile launchers you have less forgiveness,and would do very well to connect in a non vital area,let alone where the threat lives.

The 4 to 1 advantage of a .410 revolver (when using the federal or remington '000' buckshot loads) gives the user more of a chance to put one or more pellets in a vital area,while at the same time causing damage to other areas of the threat.
 
Dragline45: "If you are talking about use of shotshells for close quarters defense you are out of your mind."

I can respect someone having a different opion. All you have to do is state your opinion of the efficacy of the op's choice with some reasoning. Calling him 'out of his mind' is uncalled for. It leads me to believe that you are out of your mind for not being able to tolerate someone's differing opinion.

Supposedly we are adults on this forum and can disagree without personal attacks. :(
 
Buck

I see what you're trying to say. I don't think me buying collectible guns as an investment, goes against common sense (was that the analogy?)

Whether or not buying collectable guns makes sense as a wise investment is just as debatable as the reliability aspect of the Judge as a SD/HD firearm. Point is, as long as it makes sense to the owner, it doesn't have to make sense to anyone else. You don't have to live your life depending on Judge owners to defend you against evil, just as others don't rely on you for their financial future. But as fellow gun owners, we should support each other regardless. Dividing ourselves over petty differences in opinion is what really doesn't make sense. All I'm tryin' to say.
 
The 4 to 1 advantage of a .410 revolver (when using the federal or remington '000' buckshot loads) gives the user more of a chance to put one or more pellets in a vital area,while at the same time causing damage to other areas of the threat.

But once again, you have to have the SD scenario fit that criteria. Even if its like a 95% chance, 10 feet or so, I still would rather have something with more than one application. This SD scenario is your life, and so since I value my life, there is no room for error or assumption. Rather than have a gun with obvious limitations, I would rather have something that is strong in all areas.

Well when you bring up "war" winners you need to look at what most fought said wars with (M-1,M-14,M-1 carbines,and M-16 rifles). no handgun has been used to win a war all by it's lonesome.

You misunderstood the point. The point is, that there is a reason that police departments, miltiaries and other agencies pick a certain pistol. There is a reason why no military, PD or agency will ever carry your idea of a good SD option. And its not because they don't know, let me tell ya.
 
Well...

I can understand what dragline means,and I don't hold anything against him I think we have all been in the same frame of mind at one point or another in our lives.

But back to the topic.

The Governor fits in well with the DFG Mk-2

410comboJPG.jpg
 
@ Winchester 73

And those agencies do what exactly?

I never said that such agencies are ignorant and that I was superior.

I was speaking as a member of the civilian population,such a person makes it a priority to aviod using lethal force until they have no other choice.

My job isn't to take agressive action against a paramilitary or military force.

My job is to make it from point A to point B and then arrive home at point C.
 
Lol .410 threads are hilarious.

Bold first post. I fall on the '.410 is a gimmick' side but to each his own. If you wanna love the .410 its all you but I believe some of your power claims are a bit off.

The Governor with the federal 2-1/2 inch buckshot load knocked a 350 pound hog on it's rear haunches and kept it there.

The buckshot punched through 2 inches of thick bone (skull shot)

Most things when shot in the head die accordingly. I am just saying.

though said revolver isn't in the same class as a pump or auto loading shotgun,but it is getting close
1/2 the payload at 1/3 less velocity is close maybe in your world, but not in mine

I feel that reply its a much more accurate representation of a .410 shotshell.
 
Last edited:
To say the .410 is better than a 9mm, .40, .45, or otherwise at short ranges could and should fall in the ignorance category. The pistol is designed for a range of 7 yards, 25 feet. Sure they shoot farther but that's the designed range. It doesn't matter how you shake it, a real pistol is going to shoot where you point it, bearing on the fact you practice. You can't really practice with a shotgun round, you are just pointing and hoping the projectiles hit something that matters. I'm hoping you've taken it shooting to see what it does to paper.

For an HD gun it probably isn't the worst choice. A .22 ain't a bad choice either, unless you have g-men invading your house. For carrying purposes, the types of shootings today carrying something as 1 dimensional as that would be scarier than not having anything at all.
 
The '000' groups very well out of the governor.

It isn't the same as shooting birdshot loads.


and don't forget that the .45 caliber ammo can be used if needed.
 
And those agencies do what exactly?

I never said that such agencies are ignorant and that I was superior.

I was speaking as a member of the civilian population,such a person makes it a priority to aviod using lethal force until they have no other choice.

My job isn't to take agressive action against a paramilitary or military force.

My job is to make it from point A to point B and then arrive home at point C.

I understand none of us are agencies or armies, but when you have the opportunity to own the same sidearm as them, doesn't it only make sense? To state that a revolver which can fire 45 colt , 45 acp and buckshot might be better than whats tried and true is a bit ridiculous. Can a pistol that is small enough to carry be too combat-like to be advantageous for SD? In other words, can anyone really call a sidearm carried by some type of organization over kill? Can you really be too ready? I'm also not one of the tacticool people either. I don't mean keep an AR in your car or have grenades, but on the other hand, if you want to rely on a pistol for SD, shouldn't you buy the best that's out there? Shouldn't you get something where there is a unanimous opinion as to its effectiveness?

Now I'm not one to be a sheep, and so I'm not someone who carries a glock because of the NYPD or the Austrian army or anything but there is concrete evidence for certain sidearms, and there is concrete evidence against certain firearms. This all has been studied by millions of people millions of times over. As said, the judge/governor has enough limitations to where I don't think its worth owning. I'm not alone in saying that. You're looking at one small part of a large painting that is a SD weapon. Interesting that its a miracle gun, and yet took so long for someone to manufacture? Hmmm why would that be? Because companies realized limitations to this design a long time ago and reasonably assumed it would not sell well.

Of course I don't want shot with buckshot from 5 or 10 feet away. No one does. But that is that the only criteria to consider? Shooting 45 colt or acp through the gun only in some way defeats the purpose when there were already 45 cal revolvers and 45 cal semi pistols. Shooting buckshot from a revolver, when in the home, is another example of the gun not having a leg up on the predecessor, a pump 12g shotgun. You could have a pistol grip pump or semi shotgun with approx the same capacity, or more, compact, and much more powerful. If you carry a 1911 instead of this "miracle weapon" you gain accuracy, effective/useful range (I believe the average shooter could shoot farther more accurately with a 1911 than a governor/judge) and capacity. Many people can reload a semi faster, but I know with moon clips someone can reload a revolver real quick with practice.

To everyone else: I'm not a gun snob who puts down someone who says "I bought a judge/governor" because if I was, I would be up all day and night since those guns sell well. My statements are directed at the claims of this type of gun being superior to other "9mm 40 S&W or 45 acp" handguns and any other claims that I see as misinformed. If you want to buy it because you think its cool, that's fine, but don't come on here and act as though you figured out its actually better than established arms. Don 't post mentioning the increased effectiveness as close range, and then forget to mention all of the detractors to the gun. The "logical reasoning" that people put out in support of these type of guns pales in comparison to the logical reasoning that has been put against the weapon. Its not like the "anti" shot-volver crowd can't understand this stuff either.

I'd be interested to see the gun resumes of people who think this is a great SD choice and then those that don't. I wonder if there would be any type of correlation?
 
My reason....

Is that I have found the best choice for my uses.

I am familiar with the Smith&Wesson revolver from the model 10 all the way through to the Governor.

The only thing to change is the ammo flexability and the application of shots on target at different ranges.
 
Until someone can come up with a large enough sample of shootings with the Judge, Governor guns with various loads and compares them to shootings with Glocks (for example) with quality ammo and finds :

1. A significant difference in efficacy
2. An effect size that suggests a useful increase in efficacy

Claiming that either can't do the job is really just baloney.

Anecdotes and shooting macroni and cheese don't cut it.

At an IDPA match we shot six shots on the first target and moved on. You can do that pretty quickly and accurately. Then you 10 more shots in the gun for the next opponent. If you empty a revolver, unless you are Jerry or my buddy who comes in second after Jerry - oh, well.
 
The advantage...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is that the Governor revolver when used with a good '000' buckshot load is a close range fight stopper that can/will best any .45 ACP,.40S&W,or 9x19mm handgun round.
If that's true then - why has it taken the industry until now to embrace that idea?

Hint - it doesn't work....

It's not like it hasn't been tried any number of ways in the last 100 plus years...

Claiming that either can't do the job is really just baloney.
Too bad that Gale McMillan is no longer with us.
IIRC, he posted on the old rec.guns newsgroup about some of the experimental work he'd done over the years.
A couple of the odd ball things I recall - he tried to come up with a workable method to reload .22 rimfire - he and several others played around with multiple projectiles in a single case.
 
The '000' groups very well out of the governor.

It isn't the same as shooting birdshot loads.


and don't forget that the .45 caliber ammo can be used if needed.

Even in my short 2" barreled PD Poly the Federal 000 loads hold about 3 inches or less for the 4 .36 (9.1MM) projectiles @ 10 yards. At hand on door handle distance, a double tap with Poly puts 8 9MM projectiles right in center mass. If more is needed, or BG buddies are closing in, there are 3 45 Colt 225 Gr PDX-1 rounds to follow. That being said, my Poly is the easiest to get to in a carjacking situation. On my person is something in 380ACP pocket carry, 9MM, or 40 S&W IWB, depending on dress, and where I may have to travel.
So as far as the 410/45 Colt handgun platform being useless for SD, I think many self proclaimed "experts" haven't been paying attention to the advances in handgun specific 410 shotshell loads.
Besides all that, the darn things are just a load of fun to shoot, and blow stuff up with!:D
 
Congratulations. Who cares if others do not like it. It is the same as when people ask me why in the hell I have and shoot a 50 BMG, because I like them. I like the Governor, I would like to have one to keep in my car. 000 Buck will stop a man...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top