Black powder Store - Ideas?

Just don't blame me if you break your 1858 'cause I know how much you love dem 1858's. :eek: Personally, I like the 1858 better than the Colts too. No stupid retarded wedge contraption to begin with. :D

I'm not trying to sell anyone on 777. I'll just buy it at $24/lb before I drive across town for a $20 can of Goex. But seeing I just brought a whopping order of Goex I guess I'll be flying high with that special rotten egg scent. :cool:

Seriously though, no compression of the 777. I learned how to load it after a couple of cylinders of it paying attention to how full the cylinder was with powder and wad. A lot of people swear by it rather than at it like some people we know....hehehe. Anyhow, powder selection is like religion. You just can't get a consensus on powder even in the Church of the Holly Black so I refrain from pushing one type or another. I just like Pyrodex the least of the three propellants I mentioned.

If nothing else we are giving you an excuse to go make lots of flame and smoke in the name of science. :D

I would think Smokin' Gun's customer would enjoy the real McCoy.
 
I still don't know how much insurance will go up if I sell Goex. But I do know that it is a $200.00 license fee for three years and a special magazine that it needs to be stored in. The cost of the license and magazine is really only a portion of the issue---The insurance. It takes 3 to 6 mo's to get licensed. I need to figure out(after finding reasonable insurance) if enough people want it verses the cost! I don't know any bigbox stores around here that sell it. I don't know of but one small guy that sells it. I do know that people that used to sell it (here) don't anymore. If I sold 50 pounds in 6 months I would still loose money when you calculate everything.
 
You might need to charge about $20 per pound and maybe give a small discount for quantity like 2 lbs. for $36.
It's not about the money, it's about keeping customers who buy guns coming to your store even if they don't need to buy another gun.
It's just like a having an auto repair garage that sells gasoline.
Folks can buy Pyodex almost anywhere, but most folks don't want to pay a Hazmat fee for only 1 - 3 lbs. of black powder.
People seek out BP dealers and once they find you and your volume increases then you can lower your prices.
It's a small investment with the potential for larger returns in the form of loyal repeat customers.
And you will also sell more guns as a result.
Remember that you're trying to grow a long term business when most small businesses fail within 5 years or less.
Insurance, insurance, insurance is a necessity so that's why you need to ask the NRA insurance company that pools the risks of gun related businesses and that understands that they are often much less risky ventures than most other commercial insurers will give them credit for being.
Have you filled out the NRA insurance inquiry form yet?
Don't just buy your insurance from an independent local agency until you at least talk to several of the insurance outfits that specialize.
At the very least least you should break even over a 2 year period.
You need black powder products to sell besides guns.
Be one of the few, one of the proud and one of the brave.
Build the black powder magazine of your dreams and "they will come!" ;)
 
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OK =Articap-- You talked me into doin something I was trying to talk myself out of but was probably goin to do it anyway but maybe not unless you talked me back into it:):D
 
Smokin! Come over here and lets talk about hammers, springs and things. Somebody's got to be the gunsmith.
 
Oh, by the way Articap---hardly any store around here carries fff pyrodex. Most conventional gunshops aren't and a lot are our friends which we have a reciprocal friendly handshake with. We refer customers wanting conventional firearms to them and they send the BP customers to us. Unless Academy carries PyrodexFFF- I don't know anyone else around here that does. Maybe trip 7. I think Walmart stopped their muzzleloading section. Might be wrong , but I'll check. But the big box stores don't have the good stuff. And, we have catelogues to order stuff. We can get stuff overnight. Go to Academy and ask the guy behind the counter if you can buy a loading stand and spare cylinder for your 1858?
WB Hardy
 
Hammers

Ok I caught up to ya Billy Hardy...Hammers now...
Uberti have always cost more and Colt even remakes for origianls or Colt replicas are alwaysway more...
But Pietta for a Uberti won't work, I forget which but one is wider and I think it's Piettas.
Hammers are all for all, Euroarms/ASP, ASM, Uberti, Pietta, E.N. Santa Barbara, Colt, Centaures, are all differant but can be possibly filed to fit and re case hardened...
Search for the correct manufacturer and use that without much fitting effort required.

Enyaw, would you add some info on this subject?

Does that help any Billy?
 
Well people in your area have been buying Pyrodex somewhere before you opened up even if Walmart recently stopped selling it.
And if you ever want to sell those little salute noise making mortars that I provided you a link to earlier, then they will work better with black powder.
You've got to try to stay ahead of the curve.
You're creating some demand so now you've got to work on being able to supply it.
That's what the topic of this thread is all about!
Once licensed there should be a way to sell black powder while you'e on the road too. Other legimate black powder vendors do, so you should find out how to do that too. Then you can attend a rondevouz, reenactment or club shoot and sell some powder on the road. I would hope that there is no reason why you wouldn't be able to deliver it just like a pharmacy or a liquor store.
"Have Powder, Will Travel!" :D
 
Here in Orlando there is only one place I know of to buy BP. Black Powder will cost you $20 per lb here. Pyrodex and 777 are easily found. Pyrodex is $20 and 777 is $24. My point was that out Pyrodex, BP, and 777 my last choice would be to use Pyrodex. Since 777 loads can be reduced by 15% and maintain the same energy as BP then that 1 lb can of 777 is like getting 1.15 lbs.
Click to expand...

BP isn't available here without a 136 mile one way trip. Last Pyrodex I bought was 16.00. 777 was 26.00. Pyrodex is lighter than bp so it also goes further. Pyrodex isn't nearly as corrosive as most people believe, bp is even less so. I've never used 777 and at 10 bucks per lb. difference I won't.
 
Articap, If I wasn't a candid and humble man I wouldn't be here. I post things that I don't know enough about so as to find out things. It can be embarrasing but it works better than questions. I just started back in this a few months ago so I need all advise I can get---and you have helped me tremendously. The folks that sell it on the internet have a "special" "Distributor" liscense. Again--the ATF in Columbis, SC said pretty near quote: "You have to have a license. Your magazine will be inspected. You can only sell it out of that magazine that is registered to your physical place of biz. If you store it at your house, a barn, or whatever that is other than the place liscenced , you're breaking the law. Sure---I can order Goex over the internet without a license and store it anywhere and free whweel selling it, hopin to not get caught. But as a dealer actually selling it--I'd wind up in jail w/ hefty fine. Also, if this can be bought by anyone (50lbs or less) over the internet for around $12.00 a lb---then how can I sell it with all the ramifications I have previously mentioned and come out. Let me reiterate: A retail license selling real black powder to ordinary customers will be expensive. And, I won't know the demand until muzzleloading season is over which starts in Oct. As for now, Pyrodex is sold at academy that is FF. I still don't know who sells FFF Pyrodex around here. Powder is not the hot item. I think what I'm tryin to decide on, is if I apply for license, buy magazine, and when huntin season is over how many hunters came in wanting it? 10?, 50, 500? I don't know
 
I'm not sure you understood what articap wrote.

First of all, you are not competing pricewise with the mail order sales. They're only selling it for $12/lb if you order 25 or more pounds, which costs $300, the price of one gun! Your price comparison should be made on the basis of one sale; you can afford to sell 2 lbs for, let's say, $36; they sell 2 lbs for $65 or more if they'll even sell just 2 lbs at all. Surely you can compete with that.

Most of us real bp users can't afford to lay out $300 at one pop to buy powder, at least not very often. We tend to patronize stores that can sell us $20 to $40 at a time and we pick up a few other trinkets as well while we're there. Or we'll buy a can or two while we're at the store for something else because it's convenient and not $300. That's human nature; it's repeated over and over again hundreds of thousands of times a day across the country.

Yes, you don't know the demand. And if you keep letting that bother you, you never will. Fear of the unknown is natural; it's also ruined more good opportunities than anything else. One thing is for sure, however: the only people, repeat ONLY people, who ever succeeded did so because they took the risk and tried.

Frankly, I'm quite surprised that you look at something called the Academy as competition because they sell one granulation of Pyrodex. Why don't you sell both granulations plus pellets, all 4 granulations of real black in two or three brands, Triple Seven in both granulations and pellets and Shockey's as well? Become THE place for bp supplies in your area - nobody else is. One license, one magazine, one insurance policy to be the big dog on the block. Looks to me like a real opportunity.
 
Oh, ballistol is the best product selling now. Spare cylinders, springs and loading stands are in demand. Powder is not...yet. The cheapest cap and ball revolvers can be bought thru Cabela. I can not compete with them on the unscrolled 44 c Pietta brass revs. As far as the higher quality guns, I can-- such as Ubertie and some special Piettas. So far, the only BP c/b shooters have the cheapest available that they order direct from Cabela. This store has not yet generated a serious buyer of a quality or collectible firearm. The best one sold was a ubertie 1849 pocket 31 C. After Christmas, I might find myself selling my goodies on the road at gunshows. Hope not. And we do have advertising in local papers that we have em.
 
McKeel I can't get a license for at least 3 to 6 months. I told the shop keeper, Bill Kleiber, to say that we,re applying for BP license. And I am. it's whether I can do it. You're right-you have to go out on a limb. Call Bill at 864 804 7080.
 
robhof

When I lived in Melbourne Florida, many years ago, I bought most of my reloading supplies from a double storage unit store. They did 75% of their business at gun shows and about 10% on line and the rest local. I had lived there 10+ years before seeing them at a gun show and realizing they were right in town. If I were you I'd at least try a gun show or 2 to generate interest.
 
Yup, I'm with mykeal on the competitive pricing discussion with regard to black powder. You absolutely SHOULD NOT attempt to compare a one or two can sale with what one would pay for a 25 lb lot of powder. Probably less than 5% of the black powder buying public is going to shell out more that $300 for a large lot of black powder because:

1. $300 is a lot of money to put out in one shot.
2. Don't want to store 25 cans of BP in their house.
3. May think that BP could go stale (yes, I know it doesn't).
4. Don't think it is necessary to have a 5 year supply on hand.
5. Would rather buy another BP revolver than tie the money up in $300 worth of BP.
6. They aren't as cheap or paranoid as me about grabbing as much BP as you can at the cheapest price while it is still around for the grabbing. :D

A brick and mortar store offers convenience, knowledge, access, accessories, and hands on visualization in a one stop shop. People WILL pay for that.
 
Thanks everyone. I guess the topic of this thread is BP ideas-- and I lost perspective on that. I can't get a license for months so I guess I'll just apply for one and tell customers that it'll be available in the near future. That is--if we are still in biz. Got to cut overhead down to the rind to keep a store like this operating and cut the store down in size and put my appraisal biz on the other wall--but my partner ain't all that eager to do so. But don't you think that's a good idea----Articap -Clembert and McKeal and of course you too Smokin Gun, This brick and mortor shop will only stay in business if there are profits after expenses. So far--not enough BP shooters comin in--so I'm shelling out more money for advertising---It ain't easy but somebody got to do it. Some of my colt guns, I'd just soon keep---if they don't sell by Christmas then to gun shows I go. By Feb , if I get the BP license, I just hope in March that you boys and others will come on down:D And we can get you things that you might not be able to get and if I know it's you--I'll only charge a penny or two. What do you want?


WBHARDY
 
Hardy, speaking of advertising...I didn't see a craigslist ad for your place here: Greenville/Upstate Craigslist

I don't know whether or not Craigslist is worth a darn for this kind of stuff. You can't advertise firearms on Craigslist but you certainly can advertise hunting supplies. I have no idea what they charge for a business. You may want to do a free ad for personal hunting supplies you have for sale. ;)
 
I thought about Craigs list. I'm now in the "I wanna" which covers greenville/Spartanburg. Add comes out tomorrow. Also, I'm in "the Shopper" which is a free publication except of course, for me. Craigs list is a possibility. We feel that we need more 45 muzzleloading sabbots/ more 209 caps/ and an other order of Pyrodex FFF. Even though Pyrodex is a substitute, you still have to pay a hazzard fee for it. I think I want to buy thru either Ellets or Traditions 2 economical disply boxes. I have 2 44 C Pietta steel frames w/ black walnut grips that would look good in one. And the other, I could put an 1851 Navy and a 1861 Navy/ w flask. a wrench. A tin of caps and a few balls and sell them as a kit. You think? But, just ordering some more of what I mentioned adds up in dollars.:eek:
 
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