Black powder Store - Ideas?
- Thread starter Smokin' gun
- Start date
I've been looking for BP myself, and finally found 1 store in the whole DFW Metroplex that sells it. As I've talked online in the forums about the search, many have suggested that the best thing to do is find some buddies to split a large mail-order shipment. I'm brand new to the sport so I don't have any buddies yet (I'll be goin' to my first SASS club meeting this weekend).
I don't know what all the ramifications are but maybe you could provide some kind of 'buddy match up' service where local interested parties could connect with each other, order in bulk, and split the powder themselves. All you'd do would be provide the contacts - so some kind of small service fee could be charged - but they'd be responsible for the ordering, shipping, etc. and you wouldn't be liable for anything or have to store anything.
If you did it online and set it up in some kind of bulletin board format you might even be able to make it grow by sending emails to SASS, NCOWS and Muzzleloader clubs to advertise. Kind of like an online dating service but people 'hook up' up to buy BP rather than to break each others' hearts.
p.s. If you do this and make lots of money feel free to send me some as a consultant's fee and use me as a tax write-off.
I don't know what all the ramifications are but maybe you could provide some kind of 'buddy match up' service where local interested parties could connect with each other, order in bulk, and split the powder themselves. All you'd do would be provide the contacts - so some kind of small service fee could be charged - but they'd be responsible for the ordering, shipping, etc. and you wouldn't be liable for anything or have to store anything.
If you did it online and set it up in some kind of bulletin board format you might even be able to make it grow by sending emails to SASS, NCOWS and Muzzleloader clubs to advertise. Kind of like an online dating service but people 'hook up' up to buy BP rather than to break each others' hearts.
p.s. If you do this and make lots of money feel free to send me some as a consultant's fee and use me as a tax write-off.
Smokin' gun
New member
I'd luv to---but I don't know if you can buy black powder on line. In fact ...the cost of shipping pyrodex and other substitutes requires us to pay a hefty explosive handling charge on each order. I would think that ordering BP would carry more and for us to sell it would require ffl, maybe explosive license, a special vault and more insurance. It's not cost effective for us. Travel to stores that sell it and stock up!
That 1862 is coming in tommorow
You might be surprised at what it is going for---I mean pleasantly surprised I'll provide pics. I'm not sure I can sell it right out since it's a conversion. Supposedly the conversion was made in the late 1860's The laws are are a little gray in this.
Billy
That 1862 is coming in tommorow
You might be surprised at what it is going for---I mean pleasantly surprised I'll provide pics. I'm not sure I can sell it right out since it's a conversion. Supposedly the conversion was made in the late 1860's The laws are are a little gray in this.Billy
Smokin' gun
New member
SMOKIN GUN Where are you when I need you:}
You can buy black powder on line in any increment from 1 to 50 lbs depending on the supplier. Here's a chart from a survey I did of internet based retail suppliers back in February. The prices are delivered at your door, so they include hazmat fees and delivery charges:
In order for you to sell it you will need an excise tax license from BATFE; I believe is $300/year. Storage requirements are locally set, usually by either the fire marshal or construction codes. In general you will need a lockable magazine capable of storing up to 50 lbs. Insurance requirements are negotiable and vary widely. I've heard many people say the hassle isn't worth it. I find the argument specious, but I can't fault it; I don't sell it either, so who am I to say someone else is being truculent. But then, I'm not trying to run a retail business, so I must be an expert....
In order for you to sell it you will need an excise tax license from BATFE; I believe is $300/year. Storage requirements are locally set, usually by either the fire marshal or construction codes. In general you will need a lockable magazine capable of storing up to 50 lbs. Insurance requirements are negotiable and vary widely. I've heard many people say the hassle isn't worth it. I find the argument specious, but I can't fault it; I don't sell it either, so who am I to say someone else is being truculent. But then, I'm not trying to run a retail business, so I must be an expert....
I've seen threads talking about ordering it online within the last week. One place I saw mentioned and then checked out was powderinc.com. They sell 1 lb. cans but had a 5 lb. minimum.
However, I'm not talking about actually selling it yourself. I'm just thinking that you could 'introduce' people who don't want to buy those kinds of quantities - or who want to benefit from the price breaks offered by larger quantities - to each other and let them make all the arrangements and get it themselves. I'm sure not all BP shooters are in clubs where they can just walk up to one of their friends and say "let's split an order."
I guess you'd serve almost as a broker instead of as a direct supply source.
The idea may need some refinement, but maybe it'll spark some other thought that helps out your business.
Then again, it could be outright crazy. <grin>
However, I'm not talking about actually selling it yourself. I'm just thinking that you could 'introduce' people who don't want to buy those kinds of quantities - or who want to benefit from the price breaks offered by larger quantities - to each other and let them make all the arrangements and get it themselves. I'm sure not all BP shooters are in clubs where they can just walk up to one of their friends and say "let's split an order."
I guess you'd serve almost as a broker instead of as a direct supply source.
The idea may need some refinement, but maybe it'll spark some other thought that helps out your business.
Then again, it could be outright crazy. <grin>
Smokin' gun
New member
Hum... interesting thoughts here. I liked the word "truculent" since I used it in a novel I wrote back in 2001 called"Hell's Island." Probably out of print by now. Hadn't seen that word heard or wrote since. I LOVE it. I don't write anymore--since my second novel "Gulla Gravestones" was rejected and all the crap I went through with publishers and my ex-literary agent----oh got side tracked-- sorry. Anyway, I'd sell it (BP) if it'd pay for itself. We got muzzleloading season coming up and We'll see how much BP is asked for--weigh the costs--and make a decision. But-it'd take a whole lot of shooters wanting it!
I go to a store in NC and buy a pound of it for next to nothing and it'l last for months! I can't sell it w/rules( that was just previously posted} and keep the store open with what I think the demand is. Hell, just the insurance for substitute BP is tough enough and fire marshall won't let you keep more than 12 pounds per 600 sf of bldg space. I shoot BP and pyrodex fff and I like both. Real BP gets a bit crusty in dem dar revolvers--don't it though?
Billy
I go to a store in NC and buy a pound of it for next to nothing and it'l last for months! I can't sell it w/rules( that was just previously posted} and keep the store open with what I think the demand is. Hell, just the insurance for substitute BP is tough enough and fire marshall won't let you keep more than 12 pounds per 600 sf of bldg space. I shoot BP and pyrodex fff and I like both. Real BP gets a bit crusty in dem dar revolvers--don't it though?
Billy
I recently bought 25 lbs of Goex FFFg from Jack Powder Keg. From mykeal's chart you can see my final delivered price worked out to be $12.60 per 1 lb can. The catch with Jack's is they only will ship out in 25 lbs increments. That's because the black powder from Goex comes already boxed up in 25 can packages. All Jack's has to do is slap on the shipping label.
Smokin' gun
New member
Should I order that case and put it my store and just act dumb if the feds come in???!!!!:} Naw. But there you go--it can be got cheap and easy---so me goin thru the legalities would be crazy. Wouldn't it?
Since the fire marshall seems to think 12 lbs of Pyrodex is a good limit at your storefront what do you think about just keeping 5 lbs on site. Keep the rest at home in your basement. When you sell a pound just remember to bring an extra can from home.
Most people aren't going to want to buy 25 lbs of BP. In fact, most people will be happy with 1 lb as long as they have easy access to it and it doesn't cost a fortune per can. What do you think about selling it for $17 a can? If you can sell 7 cans a month that might be your break even point...$300 BATF annual fee plus what else? What do you sell 1 lb of Pyrodex for and what do you pay for it?
Most people aren't going to want to buy 25 lbs of BP. In fact, most people will be happy with 1 lb as long as they have easy access to it and it doesn't cost a fortune per can. What do you think about selling it for $17 a can? If you can sell 7 cans a month that might be your break even point...$300 BATF annual fee plus what else? What do you sell 1 lb of Pyrodex for and what do you pay for it?
Smokin' gun
New member
well the 300 batf fee is one thing, also insurance and vault.I'll check into it. Um, I buy pyrodex from Ellett and the cost is minimul but you have to pay a $20 handling fee for each order whether it's one or 20. People don't buy as much powder as you might think but since muzzleloading season is around the corner--I'll know more. Reeancters get their BP from the "Buddy plan" just like what you said. They want bayonets, special stuff even extra cylinders. I don't think pyrodex costs more than 20.99 in our store--the prices on this stuff are not fixed. But we are a store w/ rent and bills so we have to charge enough to keep doors open.
GringoGrande
New member
I would model any BP / C&B shop after The Log Cabin Shop in Lodi Ohio. The Kindig's there really know how to treat a customer and know every single product they sell, not one of those brothers are unknowledgible.
I would also have consistant lower prices, not just this week and then raise it next, consistant and reliable lower prices. It does not need to be much 2 or 3% lower all the time.
CUSTOMER SERVICE - Many people as long as they know they are buying a lower quality made item, as long as it works, really like to be able to pick up a phone or walk in and ask a question about a product w/o gettinga brush off.
On site minor repair of the products you sell. Simple things, screws, wedges, nipples, grips and put them on for them right there, right in front of them as you offer them some coffee or to watch a new product video.
The next advice is very iffy to SOME, but I like it, DO NOT BE AFFRAID to sell a customer on a new gadget, model or improved item. Have a demo avail on a lock with a bad flint and a well chipped flint. A demo of a hot shot Vs Normal nipples or caps.... and do NOT be affraid to suggest they grab the new goodies.
Have monthly rendevouse with period music and some real over the fire foods, Civil war encampments, Rev War encampments. Even is you have a small yard or property.
Have full bore cannon shoots like Ashland Gun Club does. Amazing to me how many $8000 to $30,000 cannons are out there where the owners are itching to show off an shoot.
Sell complete outfits of firearm, powder, C&B, rod, flints or caps and a powder measure with YOUR Name and Number on it.... REALLY and I am serious.
Have monthly contests for hard to get items, such as Goex a .32 Hatfield or ????
It all comes down to do you just have customers, or do you have customers, friends and a business that can be fun.
Gringo
I would also have consistant lower prices, not just this week and then raise it next, consistant and reliable lower prices. It does not need to be much 2 or 3% lower all the time.
CUSTOMER SERVICE - Many people as long as they know they are buying a lower quality made item, as long as it works, really like to be able to pick up a phone or walk in and ask a question about a product w/o gettinga brush off.
On site minor repair of the products you sell. Simple things, screws, wedges, nipples, grips and put them on for them right there, right in front of them as you offer them some coffee or to watch a new product video.
The next advice is very iffy to SOME, but I like it, DO NOT BE AFFRAID to sell a customer on a new gadget, model or improved item. Have a demo avail on a lock with a bad flint and a well chipped flint. A demo of a hot shot Vs Normal nipples or caps.... and do NOT be affraid to suggest they grab the new goodies.
Have monthly rendevouse with period music and some real over the fire foods, Civil war encampments, Rev War encampments. Even is you have a small yard or property.
Have full bore cannon shoots like Ashland Gun Club does. Amazing to me how many $8000 to $30,000 cannons are out there where the owners are itching to show off an shoot.
Sell complete outfits of firearm, powder, C&B, rod, flints or caps and a powder measure with YOUR Name and Number on it.... REALLY and I am serious.
Have monthly contests for hard to get items, such as Goex a .32 Hatfield or ????
It all comes down to do you just have customers, or do you have customers, friends and a business that can be fun.
Gringo
Smokin_Gun
New member
I think you are a lucky man Billy... I must see it when you get it.
Smokin' gun
New member
I just got it Smokin! It's nickle plated and the stagecoach hold up seen is visible and clear on the cylinder. I'll get my daughter to post a pic first of next week,
We found out today that our competitor in another county is not selling BP anymore. I think I might be the only one around here. That's either great or I'm in the dark or crazy. hell I know I'm crazy! I'm checking rapidly now into the legalities , expenses and ways to legally get around selling real BP. It's ambiguous as far as the laws go. But if I do and or allowd to then I can store it at home without the vault/ fire marshall and insurance hike. I'll know by Tues. I really don't know as much as I should since this was a hobby for me in the 70's and some wild hair 6 months ago told me to get back into it. You talk about backtrackin! Anyway, I got a good friend that opens my store and he knows about Muzzleloaders etc and is very good w/ customers. We have spare parts. Sold a guy a hammer and sear spring for $15.00 for his 44c brass REB Pietta. He broke his spring and filed his hammer. He was tickled to death to get these parts. He bought that gun from Cabella for 189 and broke it! Now he knows ther's a shop he can buy his stuff from and saw that same gun in our display for219. He said after paying shipping and waiting he would have bought it from us. We're doing that with everone. Got a Confederate reanacter a bayonet etc. 1 out of 200 people are interested in BP. And we just want a few loyal and happy customers. It's coming around====Give me as much info you know on Goex or any real black powder as far as retailing--the Plus and the minus
We found out today that our competitor in another county is not selling BP anymore. I think I might be the only one around here. That's either great or I'm in the dark or crazy. hell I know I'm crazy! I'm checking rapidly now into the legalities , expenses and ways to legally get around selling real BP. It's ambiguous as far as the laws go. But if I do and or allowd to then I can store it at home without the vault/ fire marshall and insurance hike. I'll know by Tues. I really don't know as much as I should since this was a hobby for me in the 70's and some wild hair 6 months ago told me to get back into it. You talk about backtrackin! Anyway, I got a good friend that opens my store and he knows about Muzzleloaders etc and is very good w/ customers. We have spare parts. Sold a guy a hammer and sear spring for $15.00 for his 44c brass REB Pietta. He broke his spring and filed his hammer. He was tickled to death to get these parts. He bought that gun from Cabella for 189 and broke it! Now he knows ther's a shop he can buy his stuff from and saw that same gun in our display for219. He said after paying shipping and waiting he would have bought it from us. We're doing that with everone. Got a Confederate reanacter a bayonet etc. 1 out of 200 people are interested in BP. And we just want a few loyal and happy customers. It's coming around====Give me as much info you know on Goex or any real black powder as far as retailing--the Plus and the minus
Powder Inc. is a large powder distributor and they sell a newer black powder named Diamondback. They will only sell it in 25 or 50 pound lots at $10 per pound delivered, so not many people can get it to shoot with it.
http://www.powderinc.com/cgi-bin/bp...spage&thispage=orderDB.htm&ORDER_ID=218115537
They also sell KIK powder for $10.75 per pound delivered.
http://www.powderinc.com/cgi-bin/bp...hispage&thispage=order.htm&ORDER_ID=218115537
Jack's Powder Keg sells rebranded Goex Bulk powder as Jack's Battle Powder for $255 delivered for 25 lbs..
http://jackspowderkeg.com/
Don't bring any black powder into your store without having the proper Federal permit though. Having some in your car or home may not pose as much of a risk to your business.
This is what a powder magazine looks like and it's priced $100 less than at Cabela's. It may need to be stored in an out building and not in a residence or dwelling, but I'm not sure what the storage regulations are. AFAIK powder magazines aren't required for individuals, but they are for dealers and at gunshows.
http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/catalog_safe.php
http://www.powderinc.com/cgi-bin/bp...spage&thispage=orderDB.htm&ORDER_ID=218115537
They also sell KIK powder for $10.75 per pound delivered.
http://www.powderinc.com/cgi-bin/bp...hispage&thispage=order.htm&ORDER_ID=218115537
Jack's Powder Keg sells rebranded Goex Bulk powder as Jack's Battle Powder for $255 delivered for 25 lbs..
http://jackspowderkeg.com/
Don't bring any black powder into your store without having the proper Federal permit though. Having some in your car or home may not pose as much of a risk to your business.
This is what a powder magazine looks like and it's priced $100 less than at Cabela's. It may need to be stored in an out building and not in a residence or dwelling, but I'm not sure what the storage regulations are. AFAIK powder magazines aren't required for individuals, but they are for dealers and at gunshows.
http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/catalog_safe.php
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Smokin' gun
New member
well, I'm gonna check it all out--but BP can be bought by the consumer in large quanties .To sell something this highly regulated for $15 to $20 per can is directly proportional to what you have to go through and the liabilities---I can't see it being economically feasible but more than a hazzard and a law suit watin to happen only to maybe make 75 to a hundred dollar profit durin huntin season Hell--I didn't make these laws!
Smokin' gun
New member
Smokin' gun
New member
Ok--here is the news today on Goex BP
From the mouth of ATF in Columbia,SC: A license is $200.00 every three years/and you have to have an approved magazine(Vault) to store it in --and you have to store it at your place of biz. You can't store it at home or anywhere else. (It falls under small explosive license.} A license can take up to 3 to 6 months with a $200 aplication fee. As far as insurance goes--that is only regulated by your insurance Co--As far as safety goes that is regulated by fire marshall and of course the vault you store in by ATF.------If insurance isn't gonna go up---and the fire marshall says it's ok. I'll sell it. The Atf will either approve or disapprove of your vault and will only inspect you every 3 years when license is up for renewal unless you're selling it unappropriately--there is some paper work for consumers to fill out but don't know the extent as yet.
From the mouth of ATF in Columbia,SC: A license is $200.00 every three years/and you have to have an approved magazine(Vault) to store it in --and you have to store it at your place of biz. You can't store it at home or anywhere else. (It falls under small explosive license.} A license can take up to 3 to 6 months with a $200 aplication fee. As far as insurance goes--that is only regulated by your insurance Co--As far as safety goes that is regulated by fire marshall and of course the vault you store in by ATF.------If insurance isn't gonna go up---and the fire marshall says it's ok. I'll sell it. The Atf will either approve or disapprove of your vault and will only inspect you every 3 years when license is up for renewal unless you're selling it unappropriately--there is some paper work for consumers to fill out but don't know the extent as yet.
Smokin_Gun
New member
Billy you done real good there with them three Revs... I'd gladly have that 1862 Nickle coversion without a struggle.