Black powder Store - Ideas?

I meant just the baby's. I looked at the Pietta stainless 1860 44 Army and I liked it---but ---is it like that 1851 44Lawman? If it is then I can't sell it.

I have a 3'd generation 36 navy signiture series nib with accessories box. I kinda want to keep it but I'd sell it if it's more valuable than just having one to shoot . I mean is it worth more than 700 to someone. I aint selling on this tread--but if you had it ,what would you ask for it in a store? No I didn't post pics but just imagine that it's brand new and the stainless steel trigger strap and back strap with the ingraved colt signiture. No papers are with it---just the 2 gray boxes.
 
Billy,

I've been in the black powder gun & accouterment business for several years since my body crapped out and as you found out, it all comes down to price. You simply cannot compete on price with the mail-order chain stores because even if you're buying a dozen guns at a time, you're not getting the same wholesale price that chain store like Cabela's gets when they buy 5,000+ guns at a time direct from the mfg. Even on used guns, you can't compete with the junk dealers at the gun shows or the on-line auction forums; they're the ones giving some little old lady at a yard sale $30 on a $300 gun and have no overhead to contend with so anything they make over that initial $30 is pure profit because they're not shelling out multiple thousands of dollars a year for insurance, utilities and all the other costs that go along with owning and operating a business.

Here's a great quote from Kirpi97:
We do not have even one local seller who will to take the time or money to meet all the federal and state requirements to sell real black powder. In fact, we have only one shop in all of Oregon, that I am aware of, that sell black powder. So we have to get use to the substitutes. But the store owners frustration with the government wears off on the customer. If they don't carry the supplies, and supplies are hard to come by, it is hard to advance beyond the curious shopper.

Above is the perfect example of why the little guys cannot make it - those who have no idea what's involved with this business simply don't understand the "why's" of many things. Kirpr97, this is by no means an insult to you, just a little enlightenment to help you and other's understand the "why's".

First, the amount of actual dollar costs involved with being a black powder retailer is quite high just to obtain "permission" from the governments (yes, plural because it starts with the locals and if you get past them, then you can begin working on the state & fed's) The time-loss costs are extreme because every step along the way is a battle that eats up hours upon days upon weeks upon months ... unless a person is independently wealthy and doesn't need to be in business in the first place, most little shops simply cannot afford to loose the amount of time required to fight each step of the battle let alone risk loosing the actual monetary costs as well. If you do get all the ducks in a row, then you have the monetary costs of insurance which are already at insane levels for any business let alone one that is now going to stock "explosives". Not only is there a significant cost for the general liability but also in your own fire coverage as well as other coverage's that may be required by the state and local governments. - - Now, the question is: "Can that local dealer sell at least 5,000 pounds of black powder every year just cover the cost of having it in the store?" Question 2: "Are you willing to pay 20-40% or more in higher costs for everything else in that store in order to have the convenience of being able to buy black powder there?"

Like I said, I'm not trying to be nasty here, quite the opposite, this is just some FYI for those of you who have never owned and operated a business. Gun shows are great, good time to be had by all but they come at a very high cost to the dealers. First, you have the cost of a table that ranges on average anywhere from $70-$125 depending on the location of the show and the show promoter. In addition to the table, most promoters require the commercial vendors to carry a separate liability insurance policy for their tables at the show; depending on the level of coverage this can cost on average from $1,000 to $4,000 per year. Even if you only set-up one or two tables at a show, you have 2-3 days of preparation and set-up time before the show and another 2-3 days of clean-up time after the show. Then you have to add the travel, lodging, parking, food and other costs associated with doing the gun show. If you've got a storefront, you either have additional costs of hiring people to tend the store while you're at the show or loose the store business and possibly customers if you close it while you're at the gunshow. Back at the storefront, you have to consider that there is at least 8-10 hours per week devoted solely to required paperwork as well as cost & inventory management - that's 416-520 hours per year of cost & loss to the owner. When you commit to running a business, it's a 24/7/365 commitment, the work day doesn't start & stop with the store hours. When the doors close, the work continues not just in the store but also at home where you sit in front of the computer for hours on end trying to find better pricing and new products. You risk a lot of money on new products that may or may not be what they claim to be an if they're not, the cost and loss is on the business owner to return it and attempt to get a refund.

Now, there is a HUGE difference when you buy from a small dealer as opposed to a large retailer / chain store. Every item that comes into a small shop is inspected by the owner, if it comes in broken or damaged, the shop lays out the cost and time to get it replaced. When you mail-order from a big place, you get whatever is in the box someone happens to pull off the shelf and if there's something wrong, it's costing you time and money to send it back and wait for a refund or replacement that may or may not even happen. Are you then willing to invest $250+ to hire a lawyer to fight for a refund on a $270 gun?

You see, the majority of little mom & pop stores, even if they're selling mail-order, will do whatever they can to keep the customer's happy because every customer is important. You go to the big stores and they don't care if you're PO'ed or not because for every unhappy customer like you they loose, they sucker in a thousand more because their price is a few dollars lower. The mom & pop stores don't think that way, we are the ones who will take a $50 loss on something just to keep the customer happy so the customer keeps coming back; big retailer's could care less if you come back or not. It's us little guys who rely upon word-of-mouth advertising from satisfied customers and not suckering in replacement customers with fancy radio or TV ads.
 
Thanks---our shop has little overhead. We do not carry real black powder because it is way too hard to meet the regulations, licenses etc verses what we can sell it for. In other words what something is worth is directly proportional to what the cost and effort is. We sold a navy arms today to a guy that was extatic. I charged him $189-never been fired!! I can do the Mom & Pop thing because I have a store with low rent--we can operate a real estate appraisal business on the other side--and I have no one to pay a salary to. I priced those colts pricy so folks will know we do have valuable guns along with our antiques. I can sell replicas just as cheap as you can order them. I was just wondering what those 2 colt's I talked about earlier are really worth.
 
also, by word of mouth, a man brought in a broken sear spring off his cheap gun. He couldn't find anyone to help him but he came in to our shop. I pulled out one and showed him our work table. He put it in and grinned and said"what do I owe you?" "Nothing," i said. And he bought a bottle of ballestol, and some other stuff and said he had friends in this and was part of a renactment group! And was glad there was a blackpowder shop up and running. So------there you go
 
Billy,

When it comes to the mass-production repro's, I don't keep a big inventory of new ones, most come in for repairs or custom grips. The local C&B market but it's growing as more people are getting exposed to the fun but it runs in cycles. I have a plus because I take trades & do repairs while most dealers are "sell only".

You're right, it is all about customer service no matter what business you're in. I built a couple flintlocks for a fellow and about a year later he called wanting to know if I could get him a particular short barrel C&B because none of the chain-stores had them in stock. It took me a few hours and dozens of phone calls to finally track one down. It came in sealed in the factory box and while the gun was fine, the grips were anything but quality. I couldn't send it out that way so I made a pair of Maple grips to replace the disgusting crap it came with and sent it off to the customer, no extra charge. He though the loose grips in the box were a joke until I told him that's what it came with. I took a big loss on that one but it was worth it because he's sent many more customers my way.

I missed the Colt discussion and I'd have stayed out of it anyway especially when it comes to price. I never thought anyone would shell out a small fortune for a well used & somewhat abused 1970's Japan made Tower repro until I saw someone hand $750 to the "sell only" dealer across the isle from me at a gunshow.
 
Good Video Smokin' Gun I did enjoy it. I never once tired of hearing my name, and proud you named it after me ... :O)
You done a fine job with the Store wouldn't mind havin' one out here in the Mojave ... if I ever get the chance I'll look ya up...
Here's Pic for yer wall of Marshal Smokin' Gun :O)
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Thanks Smokin Gun and Articap. I was caught by surprise on that one and had no prep of what to say. It was a cookout! it's hard to explain these guns in only a few minutes. If you saw the prices on the Actual Colts---they are pricy since I really don't want to sell them since they are part of my personal collection.They look good in the case though. And Smokin Gun---got your pic and it definitely is going on the wall--framed---send some more. I guess I coulda done better? But , cookout, a few beers---I did the best I could.

Thanks again
WB HICKUP
 
Hey Smokin' Gun,

Nice video and congrats on your new BP store. From the back of your t-shirt I figured out your store is in Spartanburg. I went to high school in Spartanburg (Boiling Springs). BTW, you don't "squish" the ball in...every self respecting South Carolinian knows you "mash" the ball in...LOL! ;)
 
I must have crs! I didn't say squish--I said sqush:} I also said that the 3rd Gen. Colt was made in the 80's I was wrong--maybe late 90's--never checked the date. I was most assuringly wrong on that. I also said that Colt invented the revolver---that's questionable--Didn't mention Remingtons---that's unexcusable --didn't say spout for the powder flask and no self respected southerner would have worn such a tight t shirt and Jimmy Buffet pants---Was I fixin' to have a cantalope baby? Hell' it was 100 degrees that day! By the way, I was showing an original 1st gen 1849 pocket at the beginning before I knew this guy wanted to interview. It was made in 1860--and the guy sitting next to me had never seen an original. I might have sold it if I hadn't gone inside---and I dry fired it---that was stupid and let him do the same? If Bill hadn't been nearby it might have just rode off on a Harley! But that gun is probably the most valuable thing in the store--looked pretty good. It's all back in the case secured and I will be more careful with handling it from now on out. SMOKIN GUN---that's the one I said had excessive cylinder gap and should I mill it. You saw it cock? I know, I know---leave it alone.
I used to play in a rock band that had an album---"There is a" my space" site for "J Teal Band" I didn't personally put it up but you might have fun visiting it. My wife put a bulletin on it that said "guitar slinger to gunslinger" LOL

Hey, most of you know about these guns more than me(Yuh think?} so I appreciate all advise and criticism. I played with them in the late 70's and it was less than 6 months ago I renewed my interest. Now that's another story!? Billy, Hardy or WBHICKUP
 
Clembert-- Yes we are in Spartanburg. I don't know how long ago you were here but Boiling Springs is almost a city in itself with more subdivisions you can count going from I-85 all the way up to Lake Bowen. The traffic there is awful and land values are astronomical! If it's been awhile you'd be impressed or appalled--or both!:]

WBHICKUP
 
Nice Video there. Wish there were more BP Gun shops around here. The last place that I bought some BP items...this guy don't know crap about the stuff he is selling. :eek: Also this guy states that brass frames are just as GOOD as steel frames(he is trying to sell more brass frames than steel frames). :rolleyes:
Anyway, keep building that nice shop up. ;)
 
Brass frames ARE just as good as steel frames. It's the owners who don't know what they're doing that make the difference.
 
Billy I could tell you're interview was on the spot, but you din't act a bit nrevous and explained and answered questions in a manner all could understand...you Shop is a very comfortable place to be in and you are esy to listen too...for any relevant info historically correct jus' google it for ech type Rev you sell replica or not... get you a couple new or used Revs that can be handled for display and only pull the real deals you are sellin' out for the serously interested buyer. Any enthusiest that gets a Rem or Colt that's comfortable in their hand will buy that one under the glass...if ya have a talented Gunsmith on premisis that's a plus...someone to answer questions and keep you freed up for Sales and BBQ/Beers :O)
You done a real fine job... and if you are serious about pics sized for hangin' I'd be more than glad to contribute.
 
of course I'd like pics from the smokin gun ...

Top one is 147 years Old 1861 Remington Old Army the bottom ones's name is "Rusty" and Old Armi San Palo.
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ASP(Rusty), Remington 1861, Uberti(Sophia A. Uberti)
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