Black powder Store - Ideas?
- Thread starter Smokin' gun
- Start date
Hardy,
I'm not trying to put any "bad" ideas into your head about selling black powder outside of your place of business.
First look at this picture of Jack stating on the internet that he's selling powder to reenactors on the sight outside of his premises.
Now what I think is routinely done is that just like there is an exemption for FFL's to sell guns at gun shows as an extension of their business premises, there is not any enforcement against licensed black powder dealers who sell at events as long as they are licensed.
Now why no one is admitting it, I'm not sure. But the ATF is not arresting any FFL dealers en mass a gunshows for selling guns off their premises under the authority of their FFL. That's because there is an exemption so that they can do it.
And if there's not an exemption for licensed black powder dealers like Jack's, then it's not enforced. Just like FFL's that attend out of state gunshows, and transfer non-curio & relic guns to in state FFL licensees for retail transfer without returning to their premises first to ship the gun back to complete the sale.
Legally they are only supposed to be taking orders for non-curio & relic guns, but it's simply not commonly enforced unless someone complains, the ATF has a vendetta against the person, or the law is otherwise broken by selling a gun that is illegal in the other state.
So try to understand, I'm not advocating something known to be illegal. If the vehicle carrying the black powder is considered an extension of the business, then the black powder magazine can be carried around to sell black powder.
Talk to other black powder dealers and ask them how they do it.
Jack's wouldn't risk his business promoting illegal activity on the public internet.
Once the ATF looks the other way for every other dealer, then they can't selectively prosecute someone arbitrarily.
The ATF has already admitted in writing that several ordinary people can buy a large order of powder, split it up and transfer it as long as it's done without profit. That's not explicitly allowed under the ATF rules either, but they don't want to prosecute the otherwise law abiding citizen over harsh rules, so they officially look the other way.
We're the people & the NRA, freedom rules and "Live Free or Die!"
I'm not trying to put any "bad" ideas into your head about selling black powder outside of your place of business.
First look at this picture of Jack stating on the internet that he's selling powder to reenactors on the sight outside of his premises.
Bringing Goex powder to reenactors.
On location sales help cut shipping costs for reenactors.
We would love to meet you!
Come see us when you are at your next reenactment.
http://jackspowderkeg.com/
Now what I think is routinely done is that just like there is an exemption for FFL's to sell guns at gun shows as an extension of their business premises, there is not any enforcement against licensed black powder dealers who sell at events as long as they are licensed.
Now why no one is admitting it, I'm not sure. But the ATF is not arresting any FFL dealers en mass a gunshows for selling guns off their premises under the authority of their FFL. That's because there is an exemption so that they can do it.
And if there's not an exemption for licensed black powder dealers like Jack's, then it's not enforced. Just like FFL's that attend out of state gunshows, and transfer non-curio & relic guns to in state FFL licensees for retail transfer without returning to their premises first to ship the gun back to complete the sale.
Legally they are only supposed to be taking orders for non-curio & relic guns, but it's simply not commonly enforced unless someone complains, the ATF has a vendetta against the person, or the law is otherwise broken by selling a gun that is illegal in the other state.
So try to understand, I'm not advocating something known to be illegal. If the vehicle carrying the black powder is considered an extension of the business, then the black powder magazine can be carried around to sell black powder.
Talk to other black powder dealers and ask them how they do it.
Jack's wouldn't risk his business promoting illegal activity on the public internet.
Once the ATF looks the other way for every other dealer, then they can't selectively prosecute someone arbitrarily.
The ATF has already admitted in writing that several ordinary people can buy a large order of powder, split it up and transfer it as long as it's done without profit. That's not explicitly allowed under the ATF rules either, but they don't want to prosecute the otherwise law abiding citizen over harsh rules, so they officially look the other way.
We're the people & the NRA, freedom rules and "Live Free or Die!"
Last edited:
It wouldn't be a bad idea to give Jack's a call and ask them. I spoke with the proprietor, Angelo Piazza, for a good 40 minutes one day. He's a nice enough guy to speak with. He is also a lawyer and a judge so he may have some insight for you on the subject. It would be a good idea to speak with him anyways since he is a master distributor for GOEX and it is likely you would be ordering from him anyways. Ask him about discounts to retailers while you are at it.
p.s. Hardy, even though the outdoor gun ranges do not allow BP firearms they are a good place to advertise to folks who like to hunt and shoot firearms.
p.s. Hardy, even though the outdoor gun ranges do not allow BP firearms they are a good place to advertise to folks who like to hunt and shoot firearms.
Thanks guys---I'ma workin on it. But let me ask you a question... Have you ever walked into Brick/M store that caught your interest and had a great time browsing and talking.But didn't buy anything. I know I have. But if you're on the other side of the counter you're thinkin--"I hope he buys somethin" And yeah, good will, friendliness goes a long way and they all say they'll be back w/friends. You can't help but think about what all this is costing. And you hope they'll be back. Very seldom they do. You make a sale from the customer looking for something and ready to buy. The others that chit chat 'bout everythingthey know' don't. Oh some come back to chit chat some more. And they always leave with a card braggin about us and sayin their friends will come because of me. Not so far. A man walks in and asks if you got this and buys it. The other guys just BS and we BS back and at least they have somewhere to go and talk to friendly faces. But they don't buy nothin. And In 4 months only 2 people have asked me if I carried real BP.
The hot item is Blackhawk for powder in our store which is expensive and also there is a new powder copming out soon(A BP hunter that used to work for Pyrodex) said and produces same smoke and punch. I'll find out more. So---the blackhawk is the hot item now? But you're only supposed to use it behind a209 primer. Hey, I'm just a shop keeper. But We are applying for BP licensce anyway.
The hot item is Blackhawk for powder in our store which is expensive and also there is a new powder copming out soon(A BP hunter that used to work for Pyrodex) said and produces same smoke and punch. I'll find out more. So---the blackhawk is the hot item now? But you're only supposed to use it behind a209 primer. Hey, I'm just a shop keeper. But We are applying for BP licensce anyway.
You never know when someone will buy something. The fact is that if someone isn't coming in, then they sure aren't going to be buying anything. It's better to at least have someone coming in than no one coming in. If they come in then at least they're thinking about or have an interest in an item that brought them in. When and if they're ready they may buy something even if it takes 25 visits.
Just be their friend and they will throw some money at you eventually.
Offer him a special deal and then maybe he'll come back and buy some powder & supplies for it.
No one ever said that being in business was easy.
Now where are you going to have that new BP club shooting range for the Sunday black powder shoots! You need to set up some targets that clang!
Just be their friend and they will throw some money at you eventually.
Offer him a special deal and then maybe he'll come back and buy some powder & supplies for it.
No one ever said that being in business was easy.
Now where are you going to have that new BP club shooting range for the Sunday black powder shoots! You need to set up some targets that clang!
Last edited:
I guess you're right Articap--But still not sure about the real BP. Pellets and blackhorn are what the hunters want and as I posted earlier theres a new powder that works and smokes like BP and a guy that works for Pyrodex said they're comin out real soon with their new product. I'm still checking insurance though. By the way, I was told you have to have a certified range officer on duty at group shootings. Is that so?
WBH
WBH
Blackhorn 209 has been out for awhile at around $30/lb. At least I've seen it on the shelves in a couple of places. My impression was it was for inline long guns only and not for revolvers but I don't know that for a fact. I suppose most BP hunting involves a long gun but I only do the wheel guns. I assume you'd use a 209 cap with Blackhorn 209 and not attempt to use Blackhorn 209 in a revolver with a #10 cap.
I assume you'd use a 209 cap with Blackhorn 209 and not attempt to use Blackhorn 209 in a revolver with a #10 cap.A trained Range Safety Officer overseeing and operating the firing line at match events is mandatory for many if not most organized events and venues. There is a very good reason for that: safety. Having everyone using the same rules with an experienced supervisor looking for dangerous deviations (whether by mistake or carelessness) greatly increases safety.
You're right. Blackhorn can only be fired with a 209 primer, do not try it in revolvers. also, I;m trying to gather as much info on the new fff powders for revolvers that are more comparable to Real BP. There is one out and I know Pyrodex is soon to release their version. It'll be interesting.
Pyrodex dissapoints shooters because instructions are based on using Real BP and the grains for pyrodex needs to be more. For example: a 36 recommends 18 to 20 grns. A standard 44 recommends 25 to 30+/-. You need to pack at least 25 grains of pyrodex in chambers of 36 to get a desired effect. I'm not sure, but I would think 44 colts should have at least 35 grns--maybe remingtons more and of course dragoons and walkers more!!!
Pyrodex dissapoints shooters because instructions are based on using Real BP and the grains for pyrodex needs to be more. For example: a 36 recommends 18 to 20 grns. A standard 44 recommends 25 to 30+/-. You need to pack at least 25 grains of pyrodex in chambers of 36 to get a desired effect. I'm not sure, but I would think 44 colts should have at least 35 grns--maybe remingtons more and of course dragoons and walkers more!!!
It really depends on the formality of the event and the organization and whether the general public or competition is involved or if it's a club or commercial business.
Someone often needs to be in charge and to act as a range officer, but at many private clubs there is no range officer present unless there is an organized shoot scheduled.
However there are establish range safety rules that people are obliged to follow whether there's a range officer present or not.
For competition, there is usually a range officer who is in charge of scoring and overseeing how the match is run, called or commenced.
But I'm not aware of any law that requires a certified range officer to be present for a simple gathering of a group of shooters. A private land owner may not be a range officer and may not require one if he leases his land to a group of shooters.
For most commercial ranges and shooting clubs, having some sort of liability insurance is important. An affiliation with a shooting organization like the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association (NMLRA) or the NRA may help to make having insurance cheaper. For one of my clubs, each member pays the equivalent of $7 per year of their yearly dues to cover the cost of insurance, and that cost is based on the total number of members in the club. That might be an addition to the base cost of the property/liability insurance, I'm not sure.
Last edited:
Articap I aquired a phily Jucar derringer What is it worth---excellent condition. Also I got an over and other derringer with pearl grips--probably 36 calliber maybe. It looks like an original but don't know. No markings except serial #0003310. Also, a brass double barrel w/ no markins derringer. I got a armi jagger 50 c musket. I have no idea what they are worth and what to ask. Is the musket worth 150 but the pearl handle over and under derringer==It might be valuable. Is the phily derringer worth at leat 100
WBH
WBH
Articap I aquired a phily Jucar derringer What is it worth---excellent condition. Also I got an over and other derringer with pearl grips--probably 36 calliber maybe. It looks like an original but don't know. No markings except serial #0003310. Also, a brass double barrel w/ no markins derringer. I got a armi jagger 50 c musket. I have no idea what they are worth and what to ask. Is the musket worth 150 but the pearl handle over and under derringer==It might be valuable. Is the phily derringer worth at leat 100
WBH
WBH
Articap I aquired a phily Jucar derringer What is it worth---excellent condition. Also I got an over and other derringer with pearl grips--probably 36 calliber maybe. It looks like an original but don't know. No markings except serial #0003310. Also, a brass double barrel w/ no markins derringer. I got a armi jagger 50 c musket. I have no idea what they are worth and what to ask. Is the musket worth 150 but the pearl handle over and under derringer==It might be valuable. Is the phily derringer worth at leat 100
WBH
WBH
A Jukar Derringer in really good shape should be worth about $100 without needing to twist anyone's arm!
I don't know what the Armi Jager is without seeing it but if it's clean and the price sounds fair to you then it sounds fair to me.
I can tell that you're having some fun with the new toys.
I don't know what the Armi Jager is without seeing it but if it's clean and the price sounds fair to you then it sounds fair to me.
I can tell that you're having some fun with the new toys.
Last edited:
Thanks Articap. So far the store made enough this month to pay rent and utilities. I am talking w/an insur guy about carrying Goex. Will keep you posted. Here is a dilema: (I hope you can advize me on) I live on 9 acres and shoot my pistols occasionally. I hear a big 12 gauge boom across the crick. I saw my neighbor today and talked w/him. He's afraid I'm gonna shoot his little boy. Of course, I shared his concern and explained to him that these guns are for hobby and I only shoot into a safe area. I'm down in a hollow and we have a small barn 16X20 that was used as a recording studio in my band days. There are 3 sheets of plywood all around plus 1/4 inch styrophome to sound proof it. You can go inside and yell and no one will here you. I told him that the only times I shoot is against targets against the side of this old building. If by any crazy chance that you missed the side -its a hundred yards to the next property line and you have trees and a huge creek bank behind that. He said that he was afraid I might shoot his young son which lives hundres of yards behind all this. Anyway, I'm not gonna shoot anyone and wouldn't shoot if I thought there was a danger. Here's 2 good questions:----since i have a sound proof bldg. Can I put an exhaust fan in it and shoot guns? #2 How far can these c/b pistols shoot deadly. I would think a 36 c/ w25 grains couldn't do much over 100 yards. But it might and I'm not gonna try it. But how far will one shoot befoe it runs outa steam ? and do you think this old building would make a good firing range for two to three shooters with an industrial exhaust?
WBH
I am talking w/an insur guy about carrying Goex. Will keep you posted. Here is a dilema: (I hope you can advize me on) I live on 9 acres and shoot my pistols occasionally. I hear a big 12 gauge boom across the crick. I saw my neighbor today and talked w/him. He's afraid I'm gonna shoot his little boy. Of course, I shared his concern and explained to him that these guns are for hobby and I only shoot into a safe area. I'm down in a hollow and we have a small barn 16X20 that was used as a recording studio in my band days. There are 3 sheets of plywood all around plus 1/4 inch styrophome to sound proof it. You can go inside and yell and no one will here you. I told him that the only times I shoot is against targets against the side of this old building. If by any crazy chance that you missed the side -its a hundred yards to the next property line and you have trees and a huge creek bank behind that. He said that he was afraid I might shoot his young son which lives hundres of yards behind all this. Anyway, I'm not gonna shoot anyone and wouldn't shoot if I thought there was a danger. Here's 2 good questions:----since i have a sound proof bldg. Can I put an exhaust fan in it and shoot guns? #2 How far can these c/b pistols shoot deadly. I would think a 36 c/ w25 grains couldn't do much over 100 yards. But it might and I'm not gonna try it. But how far will one shoot befoe it runs outa steam ? and do you think this old building would make a good firing range for two to three shooters with an industrial exhaust? WBH
As long as what you are doing is legal, safe, and reasonable I wouldn't worry about the neighbor. In Florida there aren't any state laws that prevent shooting anywhere on your own property. You just have to make sure you are on your property and your bullets stay on the property. There is a county noise ordinance here that stipulates you must be 300 feet from a residence. If you are within your property line but standing within inches of your neighbor's property as long as your neighbor's house is 300 feet away you can discharge your firearm without issue. In fact, the law is only in regards to multiple discharges. Thus, you may do a single discharge on your property even if it is within 300 feet of your neighbor's house. This after all is a noise ordinance nothing more. If your bullet leaves your property then you are a goner if they can prove it. Anyhow, just be safe and reasonable. No sense in pissin' off the neighbors but I wouldn't give up my rights just to please everyone either if they didn't have reasonable cause. The above is for unincorporated parts of the county and do not apply to city limits.
oh, by the way--the 3 sheets of plywood and insulation are on the inside and there is 1/3 "siding board on the outside covering all this. And the hundreds of yards i was talking about are past the hundred or so yards past my bldg protected by creek bank. I'm also in a non zoned area with no neighborhood restrictions and I don't think someone should come to the creek bank and fire off 1 12 g shot to state a point!!
WBH
WBH
Thanks Clembert. But you know, it's a fine line between being a friendly neighbor and excersizing your legal rights. That's why I posted this. Newbies will want to fire off their new pistols. they're loud!!! So lets get the best advise we can muster up on shooting our guns on small tracts around neighboring homes...and still keep piece with our neighbors. It's easy to make enemies but requires constitution, effort and work to gain friends.
WBH
WBH