Bi-Polar ? Shoot/Don't shoot

S

Sir William

New member
OK. Bi-Polar disorder. US Air Marshal had to kill one man in Miami with it. I know of many past barricaded suspects who were Bi-Polar and many suicides. I am thinking of a scenario as follows. You are in the mall shopping. You have just passed a high end cutlery shop. A man comes running out of the shop shouting for help. You notice blood drippng from a wound. A second man comes out of the shop. He is holding a large cleaver. He is wildeyed and breathing hard. He is looking around the area. He makes eye contact with you and starts forward straight at you. A third man suddenly runs out of the store shouting that the man is his brother, he is Bi-Polar and he needs help. Shoot or not? Why?
 
sorry for brother but...

I can not help that the "crazy" brother (son, father, mom, uncle) is off of his meds or whatever the case may be, to me, the reason a person is running at me with a cleaver (gun, knife, sharp stick, etc.) does not matter. My only concern is eliminating that threat. I would give the person a verbal warning ( if I had time) and order him to drop to the weapon. If no immediate compliance, then I shoot. His mental deficciency or disorder or whatever you want to call does not make it ok to harm others, especially me or my family. :)
 
police have to deal with the situation all the time. they shoot.


if a man was charging at me with a large knife and i felt in danger of great bodily injury or death, i would feel justified in shooting.

i would feel very sad if he was a victim of mental disorder, surely it wasnt his fault, but my personal safety is just as important as his.
 
It's too bad, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Do your best to calm him down (if you have time), and if you can't stop him verbally, pull the trigger.
His mental deficciency or disorder or whatever you want to call does not make it ok to harm others
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+1.

I guess a decent analogy would be a rabid animal. It dosn't matter if it can't help itself from attacking you, you still shoot it. It may be a normally docile creature, but that doesn't change the fact of the matter.
 
Well when Wally and Beaver Cleaver come out of the knife shop and Wally wanting to chop people up then the Beaver better take charge and stop him if he wants his brother saved. If Wally has a knife and is within 21 feet of me acting aggressive he will want a blood transfusion and will be happy his brother Beaver is close by to give him one.

Reasons for aggression don't matter, he can be an Arab terrorist or a looney on Meth but as soon as he becomes a threat he needs ventilation.:D :D

25
 
So what does an officer do?

Ask for a detailed medical history while the dude is reaching into his bag?!?!?


:rolleyes:
 
Being off their meds makes them more dangerous not less dangerous !! If your life is in immediate danger you shoot !!! Regardless of the age, sex, medical history etc.
 
Insanity may work as a defense in a courtroom with an unarmed defendant who is being watched by multiple armed court officers but it means absolutely nothing when a meat cleaver weilding lunatic is racing towards you.

"Sorry your brother was nuts, you shoudl have ensured he took his medication or had him commited for his and others' safety."
 
at that moment, I don't care what is wrong with him, he is threatening me and has purposely given me ever reason to think that he will carry out his threat. BANG. I'll be sympathetic later.
 
And here lies the problem with the mental health system in America ---- we did not provide good mental health systems 30 years ago so we abandoned that whole idea of hospitals and retreats for these folks except for people who are compleatly non-function and criminal and now have all of these folks lose in society trusting that they take their needed medication --- which as we all know does not always happen.

Anyway point is you or the cops shoot, it's the only option, you feel bad for the individual and blame their doctor / medical care.
 
Yes, I'd shoot

...and be heartbroken later, especially since Middle Son has a history of bipolar disorder. That would be hideous.

One of the things I have encountered, both with my own son and with clients when I was a school psychologist, is the phenomenon of getting off meds when they're on an upswing. Not a "manic" episode necessarily; it may simply be a matter of having been nice and stable and normal for quite awhile. The person then thinks, "Great, I'm cured" and gets off the meds (usually without even tapering the dose). Sometimes there is no backlash. Sometimes it takes a week or two and then they're back to clear bipolar symptoms.

Musketeer, you cannot "make" someone take their meds. Not over the age of about 8, anyway :) You can only have someone committed if they are an IMMINENT danger to their own or others' lives. Unless you are the legal guardian of a person (or their wife or husband) you can't even get info from their doctor about their condition.

The wife of this man could possibly have had a bit more latitude in having him committed IF he had been talking like this earlier, but no hospital would take hm if he wasn't pulled down off a bridge that he was about to jump from or overtly threatening death to others. Even psychotic episodes aren't going to do it unless they're violent or self-destructive.

Springmom
 
Anyway point is you or the cops shoot, it's the only option, you feel bad for the individual and blame their doctor / medical care.
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No, I don't blame much of anyone. This person voluntarily became a roaming bullet trap when they chose not to take their meds (when their mind was supposedly functioning fine), go to a knife shop in a mall knowing of his own bipolar disorder, and then succomb to his illness with a 5" cleaver in his hands.

Others may blame me for not having a bleeding heart, though.

This is a disfunctional person that is threatening everyone nearby, including myself. Back 100-150 years ago, these people were killed quickly, very close to age of majority for doing something incredibly stupid at some point. Now we coddle them.

Not saying I go out hunting these people, but it is a broken cog in our societal machine that is flinging shrapnel in my direction. Damn straight I'm gonna remove it from the machine, and not worry about it afterwards.
 
Springmom might appreciate this. I will go Behaviorist. I only care about the man's actions at the moment and not some unsubstantiated psychological construct. I need to apply the appropriate behavioral contingencies.

Since an armed man is threatening me, I don't care about why unless it gives me information that will produce a guaranteed stop. Thus, I will act in a way that gives me the best outcome for me.

Is there some reason for me to risk myself for him? If Grandma went off her meds and was doing the clever swinging, I might not 2 COM + 1 her over the Christmas goose. This guy - oh, well. If he is in a distance range that avoidance is not possible, then I act for me.
 
A lot will be said, but the simple matter is none of use were there! The Air Marshall did his job! The downside is that some fellow is dead, but that is the world we live in! I personally could care less if the offending party was on or off meds! His actions speak volumes! He failed to take his meds! His wife failed to take matters into her hands and get his situation under control ie court committal! She for all intense purposes enabled the situation! So we keep in our thoughts the Air Marshall and the dead man's family!
 
you have to ask yourself....isn't it possible that somebody who is bi-polar could still have a gun in the bag they are reaching into? or are you going to risk it and pray to god that since they are bipolar (and if they really are), that they will not have a weapon?

The decision is easy. It is very unfortunate, and i dont think anybody is really to blame. A look more into it may prove somebody is at fault for not administering or taking the proper medications. It's just a sad story.
 
if bad guy has a knife and is approaching you menacingly, press one
if bad guy has a lousiville slugger and is approaching you menacingly, press two
if bad guy has a gun and is approaching you menacingly, press three
if bad guy is announced to you as being off meds and bipolar, please hold for the operator who will take your call in the order which it was recieved. should you not wish to continue holding, please press the pound sign and leave a message.


:confused:

a threat to me or anyone else deserves to be stopped in the best way possible. sometimes thats with a gun. sometimes thats with pepper spray. sometimes thats with words. sometimes its all of the above.
 
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