Best 9mm defense rounds
- Thread starter epl1007
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458winshooter
New member
9mm SD's
By my bedside is my Ruger P89 special edition that I keep loaded with plain white box Winchester 147gr HP's.It shoots them very well and if I remember right they are runing around 950 fps.Penetration and expansion are very good.I see no need to go with anything more expensive or with more hoopla if these will work.I try to remember KISS-Keep It Simple Stupid!!!!!!
By my bedside is my Ruger P89 special edition that I keep loaded with plain white box Winchester 147gr HP's.It shoots them very well and if I remember right they are runing around 950 fps.Penetration and expansion are very good.I see no need to go with anything more expensive or with more hoopla if these will work.I try to remember KISS-Keep It Simple Stupid!!!!!!
Regular Joe
New member
It never ends. Back in the Dade Co. shoot-out, the hit that changed everything had penetrated both lungs, but stopped short of piercing the heart. That was a Win. Silvertip. It think it was 115 gr.
What great leaps have been made in bullet design since then? Advertising spin has happened since then, and very little else.
Remington had (and still does) a copper jacketed 124 gr. JPH that is "old fashioned". I have a bunch of those. They have the wippie-zippie Golden Saber 124 gr. JHP. I have a bunch of those. In my own testing, I find that they both act about the same, but the old fashioned bullet tends to retain the jacket to the end of travel better than the GS. But so what? It ALL depends on where you put either one.
My practice ammo uses the X-treme 115 gr. plated HP, loaded to about 1,200 fps from my Glock 26. I contend that this load is just as lethal, or not, as just about any other, depending on where it goes. Where it goes is the bottom line.
What great leaps have been made in bullet design since then? Advertising spin has happened since then, and very little else.
Remington had (and still does) a copper jacketed 124 gr. JPH that is "old fashioned". I have a bunch of those. They have the wippie-zippie Golden Saber 124 gr. JHP. I have a bunch of those. In my own testing, I find that they both act about the same, but the old fashioned bullet tends to retain the jacket to the end of travel better than the GS. But so what? It ALL depends on where you put either one.
My practice ammo uses the X-treme 115 gr. plated HP, loaded to about 1,200 fps from my Glock 26. I contend that this load is just as lethal, or not, as just about any other, depending on where it goes. Where it goes is the bottom line.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with Regular Joe. My understanding is that there have been some substantial improvements to bullet construction (especially sectional density) since the Dade County shooting which is a major reason why the FBI went back to 9mm in 2014. Anyone happen to know what the FBI is presently carrying for their primary ammo load now?
For years I've been jealously guarding a small stash of Winchester RA9TA (127 gr +P+ T-Series) but started considering alternatives because those can be really difficult to find sometimes (I've gone years in between finding them in stock). Lately, I've become pretty enamored with Federal's 9BPLE (115 gr +P+ Hi Shok).
While I'd pretty much written off fast 115's years ago for lack of penetration, these actually seem to make 12" fairly reliably (with some fragmentation, but as long as penetration is good I don't care).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITIFDTRWz0c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iiaXoRaRY
Also, I'm currently able to order this stuff for $18/50 rounds, so I can afford to stock up and have a decent stash. Finally a lot of police agencies (the IL State Police probably being the most prominent) were very satisfied with this loading for many years, so it's well-liked by many who have "seen the elephant."
While I'd pretty much written off fast 115's years ago for lack of penetration, these actually seem to make 12" fairly reliably (with some fragmentation, but as long as penetration is good I don't care).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITIFDTRWz0c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iiaXoRaRY
Also, I'm currently able to order this stuff for $18/50 rounds, so I can afford to stock up and have a decent stash. Finally a lot of police agencies (the IL State Police probably being the most prominent) were very satisfied with this loading for many years, so it's well-liked by many who have "seen the elephant."
LockedBreech
New member
As much as I prefer more modern loading and heavier weights, as I understand it BPLE still has a killer reputation for working well.
Tactical Jackalope
New member
I just picked up SIG Sauer V-Crown 147gr 9mm rounds... I never used 147gr before, or SIG ammo. What do you guys think about them?
I've been using Winchester Ranger T 127gr +p+ rounds for years and years and years.. Wanted to give these a shot. (pun not intended)
I've been using Winchester Ranger T 127gr +p+ rounds for years and years and years.. Wanted to give these a shot. (pun not intended)
The new sigs are very well designed. Wide open hollow point, flatter lead crown, and secondary narrow hollow meant to weaken the core to help extra expansion.
I believe that these will get solid expansion at even low velocities, and I doubt that they will break up. The wide, flat opening will at least function as a flat pointed bullet and punch a nice hole.
Just look at them. Pretty much anything in the premium ammo is going to give the same results over hundreds of shootings, and small variations between the functioning of one or the other brand in gelatin isn't going to guarantee results in the field. Poor results in the field are responsible for everything we've done to improve ammo in the last twenty years or so. The only thing we know now is that among many hundreds of specialty rounds, you would expect a clear winner, and there is no clear winner.
Imo, pick pretty much any premium round, avoid the hyper expensive rounds, and make sure they function and shoot to aim. If your handgun burps on a number of sd rounds but will fire ball all year long without a failure, the best sd round is obvious.
Or, you can spend a year and a thousand bucks working on the handgun and testing dozens of rounds. Myself, I'd rather fire ball ammo than risk a malfunction. Otoh, seriously, I've had very few malfunctions with any factory loads.
I believe that these will get solid expansion at even low velocities, and I doubt that they will break up. The wide, flat opening will at least function as a flat pointed bullet and punch a nice hole.
Just look at them. Pretty much anything in the premium ammo is going to give the same results over hundreds of shootings, and small variations between the functioning of one or the other brand in gelatin isn't going to guarantee results in the field. Poor results in the field are responsible for everything we've done to improve ammo in the last twenty years or so. The only thing we know now is that among many hundreds of specialty rounds, you would expect a clear winner, and there is no clear winner.
Imo, pick pretty much any premium round, avoid the hyper expensive rounds, and make sure they function and shoot to aim. If your handgun burps on a number of sd rounds but will fire ball all year long without a failure, the best sd round is obvious.
Or, you can spend a year and a thousand bucks working on the handgun and testing dozens of rounds. Myself, I'd rather fire ball ammo than risk a malfunction. Otoh, seriously, I've had very few malfunctions with any factory loads.
Constantine, I carry Sig in 125,I believe they are. I don't expect double diameter expansion, explosive expansion, or anything special, I believe that under nearly any circumstances, that wide open crown will punch a good initial hole, expand after barriers, and still give decent expansion an penetration.
Gelatin isn't flesh. Chasing that elusive perfect hole in the jello is not a guarantee that that same round will be exactly what you need when you have to fire.
Gelatin isn't flesh. Chasing that elusive perfect hole in the jello is not a guarantee that that same round will be exactly what you need when you have to fire.
Interesting thread, and some good points made.
What gun are you buying for? Barrel length? That makes a difference in what you buy.
Several comments about accuracy, but at what distance does accuracy come into play? Most confrontations are 8-10 feet. Accuracy doesn't matter much at that distance. If you're shooting at a bad guy 10 yards away, you might want to back off from the confrontation.
I have a G26, 3.46" barrel. From the tests I've seen, Hornaday Critical Defense rated well for expansion at 12-13" in gel with a short barrel. Equal to about 8" in a person. Critical Duty failed to expand at all.
What gun are you buying for? Barrel length? That makes a difference in what you buy.
Several comments about accuracy, but at what distance does accuracy come into play? Most confrontations are 8-10 feet. Accuracy doesn't matter much at that distance. If you're shooting at a bad guy 10 yards away, you might want to back off from the confrontation.
I have a G26, 3.46" barrel. From the tests I've seen, Hornaday Critical Defense rated well for expansion at 12-13" in gel with a short barrel. Equal to about 8" in a person. Critical Duty failed to expand at all.
The 1986 FBI shooting in Miami is what made the 9mm a mediocre round for defense, and it took the FBI 30 years to circle back.
I don't know what year Federal introduced the 9bple, but it has been compared to the venerable .357 magnum in real world results and still compares well with more modern loads, at least based on my anecdotal research.
The point being, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement and I'm more bored than usual
Anyone have any experience or thoughts on Fiocchi
Xtp 124gr? Saw their results in the lucky gunner test and they weren't bad, placed in the teens out of however many 9mm tested. Although I do lean toward shot placement trumping caliber, doesn't hurt to stack the deck in your favor, as so many have said before. These posts are really just good for knowing whats popular and all that, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Xtp 124gr? Saw their results in the lucky gunner test and they weren't bad, placed in the teens out of however many 9mm tested. Although I do lean toward shot placement trumping caliber, doesn't hurt to stack the deck in your favor, as so many have said before. These posts are really just good for knowing whats popular and all that, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.