Best 9mm defense rounds

Binary choice means two choices and you have to pick one or the other, you said it should be, that's why I got confused.

Through intermediate barriers or heavy clothing your light target loads will fail versus purpose-designed JHPs.

$25 for a box of 50. My car insurance is $90 a month. I'll pay for the insurance. Different strokes for different folks.
 
101combatvet said:
They won't fail with the proper placement.
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Why do you think modern JHP rounds were developed? Why does every knowledgeable trainer and professional shooter that I can think of carry these modern JHPs? Ernest Langdon, Larry Vickers, and Todd Green have pretty good placement.
 
Why do you think modern JHP rounds were developed? Why does every knowledgeable trainer and professional shooter that I can think of carry these modern JHPs? Ernest Langdon, Larry Vickers, and Todd Green have pretty good placement.
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Maybe they get the ammo for promotional purposes.
 
I'm similar on +p. I use it in my 3.5-4" barrels, but my 92FS has a 4.9" so I use standard pressure Gold Dot 124s in it. Should get me similar velocity to 124 +p from a 4" barrel without premature wear on my gun.
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The 92FS/M9 was designed specifically to eat 9mm Nato, which is virtually identical to sammi spec +P, you're not going to wear out your Beretta with it! The big Beretta will even survive on a fairly steady diet of 115 +P+ such as Federal 9BPLE, though not as much as it will with +P.
 
There is another current thread about the effectiveness of 22 lr as a defensive round. Several have made the point that with proper placement it can work just fine. The problem is getting proper placement under stress and in difficult circumstances with any handgun. I know that some think that they are good enough to be confident that they can do that every time. Statistically that just isn't the case. Even the best of us miss under pressure. Since that is true, it only makes sense to use ammunition that gives us the best chance of stopping the threat in a defense of our lives and the lives of others. Light target ammo for self-defense is better than nothing, but is not intended for that purpose and is a poor substitute.
 
There is another current thread about the effectiveness of 22 lr as a defensive round. Several have made the point that with proper placement it can work just fine. The problem is getting proper placement under stress and in difficult circumstances with any handgun. I know that some think that they are good enough to be confident that they can do that every time. Statistically that just isn't the case. Even the best of us miss under pressure. Since that is true, it only makes sense to use ammunition that gives us the best chance of stopping the threat in a defense of our lives and the lives of others. Light target ammo for self-defense is better than nothing, but is not intended for that purpose and is a poor substitute.
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Place several light target loads into their chest and ask them, if they are still standing try a head shot. I depend on my training, not the fancy boxed ammo.

.22 LR? Seen a 350 pound kid take one in the heart. Dead!
 
101combatvet said:
Place several light target loads into their chest and ask them, if they are still standing try a head shot. I depend on my training, not the fancy boxed ammo.



.22 LR? Seen a 350 pound kid take one in the heart. Dead!
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Are you intentionally avoiding the actual argument about combat accuracy?

Nobody in real life is Jason Bourne. In a self-defense shooting situation with a handgun even most trained people are just not that surgically accurate.
 
Judging from my own experiences, most "trained people" are not very well trained.
And like the old saying, "the gun is the least of it."
Ditto for the ammo.
Obviously the bigger the better, but lousy shooting can't be fixed by gun and ammo choices.
 
Judging from my own experiences, most "trained people" are not very well trained.
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Depends on how well trained and how they define "trained". I have seen the results of good training, it is always a step in the right direction and will rarely fail you.
 
It's one thing to say shot placement and training is much more important than what bullet you choose. That's 100% correct. It's another to say good ammo doesn't matter at all.
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Good ammo only matters if it feeds, shoots and hits where you want it to. Way too many people practice with some nice cheap ammo that isn't anywhere near the characteristics their carry ammo. In a perfect world you would either train with the same ammo you carry (can get expensive with premium defense rounds) or you practice with a less expensive ammo that is as close as possible to your carry ammo in characteristics, including bullet type, OAL, energy, recoil, accuracy, etc. Example" Winchester makes Train and Defend ammo with similar characteristics.

Train how you fight, fight how you train...and tempt Murphy as little as possible.
 
That is true, so let's return to that.

If you miss with an expensive bullet but stick a toothpick in the guy's eye, that's for another thread.
 
When you load and unload a few times, you have new rounds, having a few nicks in them, so they go to one side.

Range session, firing hardball (cheap) then quick clean and tiny lube, a few rounds of my carry ammo (from the nicked group) it is always spot on at 10m.

Reload, and holster. Good to go.
 
there's no such thing as the best 9mm defense round.

if you shoot someone with a 9mm it doesnt matter if you use a hollowpoint, +p, or whatever, they all fly fast and straight enough to kill a person without problems. its been killing many people since it was invented, and most stuff they change to it is only done for sales purposes.

thousands of people have been killed with .22lr, .25acp, and lots of small low power black powder calibers. but somehow the industry always manages to convince people they old stuff doesnt kill good enough anymore, as if people have become immune to those calibers. (fun fact: .25acp guns are 100% banned in my country. cant get a license for them and its the only caliber specifically mentioned in our gun laws. thats probably not because people dont find em deadly enough)

if a 9mm doesnt stop someone you probably shot it in the wrong place. like dutch police does, they shoot someone in the leg and complain it didnt stop the person immediately. when you ask why not in the head or heart they say they dont want to kill the person. some things just dont go together.
 
A 124 grain +p JHP in a 4.5" barrel works extremely well. In shorter barrels, I would tend to run 115 grain +p JHP. Velocity = penetration & expansion.

Your choice.
 
It probably varies depending on the bullet design (eg, HST vs Gold Dot vs. XTP vs. Hydra Shok, etc) as to reliable expansion, however Speer tested their standard pressure 124 gr Gold Dot bullet with 4 inch barrel and it obtained desirable expansion and penetration. So I carry standard pressure 124 gr Gold Dot or HST in my HK P30L.

I carry +p 124 gr Gold Dot or HST in my P2000sk 3.5 inch barrel.

OR 147 gr HST in either.

I thought this was a good article showing results using shorter barrel (normal carry guns for civilians), using gel and 4 types of cloth.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
 
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