Benefit in providing illegal aliens a drivers license?

[madmag]

They are going to be here whether they have driver licenses or not.

Not really. If we enforce employer sanctions against hiring illegals then they (illegals) will go home on their own. Already happening in some states.

 

[WhyteP38]

So you don't think illegals should be able to enter into any contracts, or just driver licenses?

For example, if an illegal gets sick and goes to the hospital, he has to sign a form that says he promises to pay his bill (of course he probably won't pay, but he has to sign a contract saying he will). Do you think that should be illegal also?

Once again, you fail to understand the differences between some contracts and other contracts, just as you fail to understand the differences between different types of taxes.

Whereas a contract for hospital services creates an obligation on the patient to pay for services rendered, a contract for a driver license creates an enforceable property right for the possessor of the license. The property is the license. Once you obtain a driver license, the state has certain legal obligations to fulfill before it can revoke the license. The state cannot simply decide to take it away. You might recall the conditions that were spelled out when you applied for your license. Those conditions set out the obligations of the state and the obligations of the license holder, as well as legal rights to redress for the license holder should the state violate the specified conditions or if you wish to challenge the state's enforcement of those conditions.

Your comparison of a hospital service contract with a state-sponsored privilege are an apples-to-oranges comparison. The two are not the same.

They are going to be here whether they have driver licenses or not. I have never heard of an illegal saying "shoot, I am going back to Mexico because I can't get a driver license".

Um ... no one said otherwise. So your point is ...?

If you make them get driver licenses, then they have to pay fees to help maintain the system, and they have to show at least a basic knowledge of how to drive.

If you believe that minimal fees and basic knowledge outweigh the legally enforceable rights they will gain, plus the fact that a driver license is a gateway document to other documents and services, then there's not much more you and I can discuss. Clearly, the benefits to the illegals far outweigh the benefits of minimal fees and basic knowledge; otherwise, the illegals wouldn't want a license as much as they do, given that it will cost them money for fees, money for insurance, and time/effort in passing the tests. Unless, of course, you believe the illegals, who are generally earning abysmal wages, are parting with their meager wages out of pure civic mindedness.

By that logic, property tax is not really a tax either. It is a contract between my and the state. Once I satisfy my part of the contract, to include fee payment, then I can the right of being able to live in my home.

Apparently, you don't understand the difference between a tax and a fee. The two are not the same. When you pay your property taxes, do you sign an agreement as to your obligations under the contract? Are there corresponding obligations on your municipality towards you? I've never seen such a contract, and I've paid property taxes since 1989. However, if I go to the local state park, I have to pay for entry and parking. That's a fee, not a tax. In return for my payment, I get a ticket that states my responsibilities while in the park - such as keeping my dog on a leash - and generally the state's responsibilities while in the park - usually phrased in the negative, such as "not responsible for items stolen from your vehicle" or something like "the park closes at sunset."

But you still failed to answer my question: Why do you want to enable illegals in staying here and taking even greater advantage of our society? You claim you don't want them here, but you advocate for something that will make it more difficult to get rid of them.

 

[Unregistered]

Why do you want to enable illegals in staying here and taking even greater advantage of our society?

I don't think driver licenses make it easier for them to stay here. They are already here. No one is making them leave. So how does not having a driver license make it harder for them to stay? Giving them a DL does not enable them. They are already enabled!

No one is making them leave, regardless of their driver license status.

Of the 12 million illegals here, probably 8 million are old enough to drive. If a driver license costs $25, then that is $200 million dollars we are losing by not requiring them to have licenses. Why do you not want them to pay this regulatory fee? I think your position is really pro-illegal immigration. It is simply another cost that illegals can avoid.

 

[WhyteP38]

I don't think driver licenses make it easier for them to stay here. They are already here. No one is making them leave. So how does not having a driver license make it harder for them to stay? Giving them a DL does not enable them. They are already enabled!

As has already been stated several times, it makes it easier for them because they would gain 1) a property right that is legally enforceable against the state that will inhibit booting them out, and 2) it will give them legal access to other documents and services, which will further inhibit booting them out.

However, you believe the illegals who want driver licenses are stupid and the people who are against giving them licenses are stupid. By your logic, the illegals must be stupid: They are underpaid but are willing to part with their meager wages through fees in order to gain no advantages. By your logic, the people opposing licenses for illegals must be stupid: They are forsaking the benefits of fee collection and basic driving knowledge by illegals in order to prevent illegals from gaining nothing they don't already have. By your logic, both sides are forsaking huge advantages in order to get nothing in return. In a nutshell, that's your position.

 

[Unregistered]

Not stupid, just ignorant.

You talk about driver licenses making it harder for them to get booted out. But no one is making a serious effort to boot them out anyway, whether they have a license or not. It can't get much easier for them to stay than it already is. So your argument is moot.

 

[WhyteP38]

Not stupid, just ignorant.

Yep, the illegals and those who oppose them - in short, everyone on both sides - is ignorant. Except for you.

You talk about driver licenses making it harder for them to get booted out. But no one is making a serious effort to boot them out anyway, whether they have a license or not. It can't get much easier for them to stay than it already is. So your argument is moot.

Again, you make another false assumption. You assume the situation is static, which goes further to betray the illogic of your position, because your desire to allow licenses shows that the situation isn't static. You further compound your illogic with yet another false assumption that any sort of change can go only one way: to allowing licenses for illegals and not toward booting them out.

 

[Unregistered]

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

Regardless of the validity (or lack thereof) of our respective opinions, one thing is certain: illegals will not get driver licenses. It is too politically unpopular to do this. But it does give politicians a nice talking point, as they sit around and refuse to solve the real problem, which is unrestricted illegal immigration.