Benefit in providing illegal aliens a drivers license?

I am not distracted from the real issue. I am capable of considering more than one topic at a time.

I realize you are able to consider more topics than one at a time, but many people are not, and get distracted by the driver license issue. They will vote for a politician against driver licenses for illegals, thinking that will somehow solve the illegal immigration issue, but of course it does nothing to affect it.

Look at what WhyteP38 says. He thinks it is logical to deny licenses to illegals. I agree on the surface it sounds good. But he is distracted, and wasting time belly-aching about this issue, when the real issue he should be complaining about is why these illegals are allowed to be here in the first place. So he might write a letter to his Congressperson complaining about driver licenses, rather than complaining about Congress's inability to solve the illegal immigration problem in the first place.

It is illogical for illegals to be here to begin with.

If you are going to allow them to be here though, then it is logical that they should be required to pay taxes and have appropriate licenses like everyone else. Otherwise, you are giving them yet another free ride.
 
Look at what WhyteP38 says. He thinks it is logical to deny licenses to illegals. I agree on the surface it sounds good. But he is distracted, and wasting time belly-aching about this issue, when the real issue he should be complaining about is why these illegals are allowed to be here in the first place.
To borrow from PBP, I can complain about more than one issue at a time. I can complain about licenses for illegals at the same time I'm complaining about them being here in the first place.

It's not a distraction to realize this issue has many subissues that are advancing simultaneously. While it's important to fight on the main issue, it's also important to keep the subissues from gaining a toehold. If a toehold is established, the fight on the main issue becomes all that much harder.

Your approach is like trying to win a war by not fighting the battles. But you must fight the battles if you want to win the war. Sometimes, you must fight several battles simultaneously to keep the enemy from gaining an advantage. And you must realize that one battle won is just a beginning. You must keep going until the entire war is won.

Why you keep insisting, as you have in other threads, that a victory against licenses means that people will then quit is beyond me.
 
Your approach is like trying to win a war by not fighting the battles.

My view is these are not battles in the same war.

I am opposed to illegal immigration. I want a wall built. I want illegals sent back. I want employers to go to jail and pay fines.

However, if my government is going to allow immigration, then I absolutely positively think the illegals should be held to the same standard as everyone else, and should have to get driver licenses.

Let be clear: I am in favor of driver licenses for illegals. Therefore, I see no reason to fight that battle.
 
However, if my government is going to allow immigration, then I absolutely positively think the illegals should be held to the same standard as everyone else
First off, I support LEGAL immigration and oppose ILLEGAL aliens, who are not immigrants. Second, if our government is going to allow ILLEGAL aliens, then by defintion the illegals cannot be held to the same standards as everyone else; otherwise, they'd have to be LEGAL.
 
Illegals are held to some of the same standards as US citizens.

"some" is a big open door. Yes, they are held to some of the same crime standards. If they rob a store or bank they are held accountable, but they get free medical care without being held accountable to pay. In most areas they get free schooling without paying into the local tax base. And if they are stopped for no drivers license they usually walk free. I have witnessed these different standards first hand while living in El Paso & Southern California.

BTW, I read the other day that more local clinics in LA have had to close due to the high cost of free medical care to illegals. Now the paying legal citizens have to travel further to get care.
 
In most areas they get free schooling without paying into the local tax base.

How is this managed? In most areas, aren't schools funded largely from property taxes? Whether they own a house or rent an apartment, they're contributing to the property tax base, no?
 
How is this managed? In most areas, aren't schools funded largely from property taxes?

Glad you asked. In El Paso every day Mexican students Cross the border and attend schools in El Paso. There is a rule that the schools cannot challenge any student for proof of citizenship or that they are legal residents in El Paso. And yes the property owners pay the bills...I was one. This is exactly why El Paso has some of the highest property taxes in the nation. I use to drive by the high school each morning as all the vehicles with Mexican license plates let their kids out to go to school. This also occurs in other cities..California, Texas. No, these people pay no property tax, rent, etc.

BTW, there is a little inside joke (not funny) in Texas, especially the border areas. There is no State Income tax. Of course not. You have to have legal paychecks to get the tax, so instead they raise the tax on the only people then get their hands on...the legal property owners.

Anyone that thinks so-called low cost illegal labor is really low cost, needs to think again.
 
I moved down here to Florida from Illinois three years ago. I'm 3rd generation swede. I needed 1)Illinois Drivers license, 2)Birth Certificate, 3)High School Diploma, 4) Social Security Card and 5)Proof of where I was living before they would even TALK to me about getting a Florida drivers license. Now, people tell me giving illegals driver licenses is ok. Give me a break. Why not give them Conceal Carry permits while were at it? :mad:
 
Let be clear: I am in favor of driver licenses for illegals. Therefore, I see no reason to fight that battle.

Regardless of whether you are, or are not, in favor of licenses for illegal aliens, by engaging in the debate you have accepted the premise of the inevitability of illegal aliens. Instead of challenging the very presence of illegal aliens, you have surrendered that battle and are now engaged in peripheral questions about their accepted presence.
 
Illegal aliens also have to pay sales taxes.

If you don't want them to pay the fee required for driver licenses (which is by definition a form of tax), then I can only assume you also think it would be ok for them to not pay sales tax.

If you think they should pay sales tax, but not pay licensing fees, how are you making distinction???

Why give them a free ride with driver licenses, but not with sales tax?
 
Any time this subject comes up I like to remind people that punishing employers of illegals is the real answer. With the new laws now enacted, this is starting to work in Arizona & Oklahoma. Illegals will leave on their own when their jobs go away. For years employers have hired illegals without regard to the real cost to the community they serve. This needs to change. Give some well advertised punishment to employers and things will change fast.
 
madmag is correct. It is a matter of supply and demand. When demand for illegal workers goes away, so will the illegal workers. And as as far as I am concerned, they can all drive back to mexico legally.
 
Illegal aliens also have to pay sales taxes.If you don't want them to pay the fee required for driver licenses (which is by definition a form of tax), then I can only assume you also think it would be ok for them to not pay sales tax.
If you think they should pay sales tax, but not pay licensing fees, how are you making distinction???Why give them a free ride with driver licenses, but not with sales tax?

I want them to pay ALL taxes. I want them to pay incomes taxes, Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes..........all of 'em.

I don't want them to have a "free ride" on anything. Any ideas on how to make this happen?
 
Any ideas on how to make this happen?

Most likely there is no way to get them to pay everything. Their income is off the books, so no way to collect income tax, social security etc. But we certainly need to make them pay as much as we can, and licensing fees is one way.

Another good idea would be to increase sales tax, and decrease income and property taxes.
 
Glad you asked. In El Paso every day Mexican students Cross the border and attend schools in El Paso. There is a rule that the schools cannot challenge any student for proof of citizenship or that they are legal residents in El Paso. And yes the property owners pay the bills...I was one. This is exactly why El Paso has some of the highest property taxes in the nation. I use to drive by the high school each morning as all the vehicles with Mexican license plates let their kids out to go to school. This also occurs in other cities..California, Texas. No, these people pay no property tax, rent, etc.

Ah, hadn't thought of this. I'd suggest that this is an issue that only applies to border areas (as in, real border areas a short drive from Mexico...El Paso, San Diego, and other actual border cities/towns) and something I'd agree you guys desperately need to fix. Get more than a half-hour drive from the border, and it's a little harder for somebody to have their kids in school without paying property taxes somewhere (unless they're living in their car). And where I went to high school (Phoenix) it seemed like they were pretty strict on trying to make sure you actually lived within the district you were attending school in; as much to keep poor white kids out of nice suburban districts as to keep illegal aliens out.

Why not give them Conceal Carry permits while were at it?

I'd suggest they have more right to a CCW than a driver's license, actually. But that comes from the whole "natural right to self defense" argument than anything.


The argument in favor of giving them licenses is, I think, really a matter of safety. Testing standards, knowledge of laws of the road, insurance...increasing the odds the illegal aliens will have/follow these is a "good thing." Not as good as actually keeping them out or keeping them documented (I prefer the latter, but really either is valid), but still an improvement over the status quo. The only reason it screws any candidate that suggests it is because, as Unregistered implied, it's harder to keep up the "tough on illegals" front (and it is a front for a majority of politicians, on both sides of the aisle) while doing so.

I don't want them to have a "free ride" on anything. Any ideas on how to make this happen?

Two options, like I said. Document them or send them home. And as suggested, the easiest way to send them home is to dry up the demand for their labor. Seems to be working (slowly but surely) in Arizona. And even bleeding-heard liberals have an easier time stomaching a crackdown on business owners who employ illegal aliens than a crackdown on the poor bastards that trudge across the desert trying to feed their families and build a better life. Same net effect, of course, but easier to accept.
 
Unregistered, you wrote:
I absolutely positively think the illegals should be held to the same standard as everyone else
First, by definition, illegals are not held to the same standard as everyone else. They break the law by coming here, they break the law every day they stay here, and they break the law by getting jobs here.

Now you're switching to:
Illegals are held to some of the same standards as US citizens.
"Some" is not the same as "same." At a minimum, you are being inconsistent.
To think they are held to no standards is untrue.
Only you said this. No one else in this thread but you has said or implied "they are held to no standards."
 
the poor bastards that trudge across the desert trying to feed their families and build a better life
Not everyone who trudges across the desert is someone trying to feed his family and build a better life. 23%-27% of incarcerated felons in our country are illegals. When I lived in North Carolina, the number of drunk drivers in the Charlotte area in early 2006 (the time period in which I left) who had killed someone in a drunk driving accident was 11. Of that number, 6 were illegals, all of whom had been deported at least once, and one of whom had been deported 8 times. 6 out of 11 is 55%. I can assure you that the illegal population of the Charlotte area is nowhere close to 55% of the Charlotte populace.
 
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