Benefit in providing illegal aliens a drivers license?

I'd suggest that this is an issue that only applies to border areas (as in, real border areas a short drive from Mexico...El Paso, San Diego,
Click to expand...

Yes, I guess I should have pointed out that El Paso is not just close to the border, it's on the border...yards, feet, rock throwing distance. San Diego not much different.

BTW, not all bad in El Paso. You can drive out in the desert and find a deserted spot and do all the shooting you want. Lot's of fun.
 
When I lived in North Carolina, the number of drunk drivers in the Charlotte area in early 2006 (the time period in which I left) who had killed someone in a drunk driving accident was 11. Of that number, 6 were illegals, all of whom had been deported at least once, and one of whom had been deported 8 times.
Click to expand...

Let them get drivers licenses and then their licenses can be taken away when they are caught driving drunk. By gosh, that ought to stop them!
 
If an illegal immigrant wants a drivers license, then first become a legal citizen; then we will talk. I am completely amazed at how some people are for amnesty. If I were a legal immigrant I would be pissed that I had to go through the entire, rigorous process of becoming a citizen and then they just hand citizenship to someone else; seems pretty much like common sense to me that, that isnt right. It is definitely not a solution to our problem; it will just make more problems for us.
 
Yes, I guess I should have pointed out that El Paso is not just close to the border, it's on the border...yards, feet, rock throwing distance. San Diego not much different.
Click to expand...

Yeah, spent some time down at Bliss and I'd say El Paso is just about a step removed from being an (incredibly nice, by comparison) suburb of Juarez. Still a step removed though, before you bite my head off! ;)

Not everyone who trudges across the desert is someone trying to feed his family and build a better life. 23%-27% of incarcerated felons in our country are illegals. When I lived in North Carolina, the number of drunk drivers in the Charlotte area in early 2006 (the time period in which I left) who had killed someone in a drunk driving accident was 11. Of that number, 6 were illegals, all of whom had been deported at least once, and one of whom had been deported 8 times. 6 out of 11 is 55%. I can assure you that the illegal population of the Charlotte area is nowhere close to 55% of the Charlotte populace.
Click to expand...

I don't recall suggesting that all illegal aliens fit that description, so I don't see why you bothered refuting such a suggestion.

Besides which, I was speaking about the perceptions and positions of those who belong to one political subset. At no point did you refute the idea that there are many people in this country who are more willing to accept sanctions on employers who hire illegal aliens than sanctions against the aliens themselves (provided they've broken no non-immigration laws). Whether you are part of that subset or not is irrelevant. I'm more than willing to stipulate that a majority of TFL members aren't.

I'm just suggesting that drying up the demand side is probably easier, more effective, cheaper, and more politically acceptable than drying up the supply side. Seems pretty obvious to me.

If I were a legal immigrant I would be pissed that I had to go through the entire, rigorous process of becoming a citizen and then they just hand citizenship to someone else; seems pretty much like common sense to me that, that isnt right.
Click to expand...

If I were a legal immigrant I'd be just as pissed about some of the dirtbags who are handed citizenship just for being born here. Law's the law, and I'm not looking to do away with it, but it's really no more fair or less arbitrary. Our prisons are full of natural citizens, born to citizens, who really deserve their citizenship no more than the average Lithuanian.
 
At no point did you refute the idea that there are many people in this country who are more willing to accept sanctions on employers who hire illegal aliens than sanctions against the aliens themselves (provided they've broken no non-immigration laws).

I'm just suggesting that drying up the demand side is probably easier, more effective, cheaper, and more politically acceptable than drying up the supply side. Seems pretty obvious to me.
Click to expand...
I didn't refute it because I agree with you. The people who hire the illegals are the real culprits because they're the ones placing the bait. I was just trying to paint the entire picture.

The myth is that the illegal is just a poor schmoe trying to make good. The reality is that the poor schmoe trying to make good is generally the LEGAL immigrant, regardless of country of origin. Given the disproportionate levels of criminal activity, many of the ILLEGALS are not just a poor schmoes trying to make good.

But I do hold the employers as the primary culprits.
 
They are not supposed to be here in the first place. That's why they are illegals.

The only reason the liberals want them to have a drivers license is so that they can vote in some states. The illegals can't wait for all that free stuff the Dems will give them...
 
Subsidized rent, medical, food stamps,WIC, schooling, home tutoring
for english in some sanctuary cites in my state, free lunch, free breakfast.
All obtained with false ID, I would suspect the only ones paying much
property tax are the long term illegal, one tax none can escape is sales
tax.

The idea of granting drivers licenses does not help many use fake insurance
cards, vehicle inspection, etc. Having said all that one way to stop it all
is fine and jail employers who hire them.
 
Yeah, wtf is up that. o_O

I know I'm pretty much left on a number of issues but giving illegals driver's licenses is just ridiculous. Nuh uh. Who came up with that???
 
WhyteP38,

Why don't you want illegals to pay the same taxes and regulatory fees as everyone else?

Also, you took multiple statements out of context, so I will clarify:

I believe that illegals, if we are forced to accept them into society as we are having to do now, should be held to the same standard as everyone else on issues of taxation and regulatory fees. However, the reality is that today, they are held to some but not all standards. For example, they pay sales tax, but no income tax or driver license fees. I would prefer to see us totally free of illegal aliens, but if out government will not get rid of them, then I think they need to pay taxes and fees like everyone else. That is really an easy concept to understand, sorry I did a bad job explaining it earlier.


The only reason the liberals want them to have a drivers license is so that they can vote in some states.
Click to expand...

Thats probably true, but the easy solution is to not accept driver licenses as proof of citizenship. Legal aliens have driver licenses also, but can't vote either.
 
Hot off the press. Here is the guy that was trying to give illegals driver license in NY state. Can you say oh-oh!:cool: Looks like Spitzer might be a little to busy to worry about that now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080310/ap_on_re_us/spitzer_prostitution

From the article:

But his stint as governor has been marred by several problems, including an unpopular plan to grant driver's licenses to illegal immigrants and a plot by his aides to smear Spitzer's main Republican nemesis.
Click to expand...
 
WhyteP38,

Why don't you want illegals to pay the same taxes and regulatory fees as everyone else?
Click to expand...
Because for one thing, I don't want them here at all. If they are not here at all, they won't pay any US taxes and regulatory fees.

For another thing, once they begin paying US taxes and regulatory fees, they can begin making more claims to things they don't have a right to in the first place. "No taxation without representation." I don't want them to establish a toehold that will eventually lead to them voting in our elections and a whole host of other benefits and rights. Lest you think that won't happen, the idea has already been floated.
 
I don't want them here at all. If they are not here at all, they won't pay any US taxes and regulatory fees.
Click to expand...

I agree completely.

"No taxation without representation." I don't want them to establish a toehold that will eventually lead to them voting in our elections and a whole host of other benefits and rights. Lest you think that won't happen, the idea has already been floated.
Click to expand...

So, then, you would favor waiving sales tax for illegals? After all, no taxation without representation, right?
 
So, then, you would favor waiving sales tax for illegals? After all, no taxation without representation, right?
Click to expand...
For some reason, you continue to misunderstand or misrepresent, or both, my statements. Go back, reread, and then figure it out.
 
I am pretty middle of the road on the whole immigration thing (surprise, surprise). I do believe in legal immigration (with strict limits) and I do believe in a guest worker program (with strict regulations and harsh punishments)...but I am completely against giving them a DL. That is almost like saying..."well...you are here to stay so have some free stuff."

Mexico does have their own driver's licensing. I am fine with guest workers driving if they are properly licensed in the home country and maintain the minimum requirements insurance wise to drive a properly licensed vehicle here.

I do not see how that is denying them any privileges. If they get a license in their own country, then come here legally as a guest worker, and pay a small amount for liability insurance they can drive all they want as far as I am concerned.
 
For some reason, you continue to misunderstand or misrepresent, or both, my statements. Go back, reread, and then figure it out.
Click to expand...

No, thats not right. You clearly said you did not want them to pay taxes because you did not want them to gain a toehold with which to demand representation. If that is not what you meant, then its up to you to explain your thoughts in understandable English.
 
iF you are an illegal immigrant in Mexico and get caught working you will spend prison time. If you are not a Mexican citizen, you cannot own property in Mexico. Mexico jails illegal immigrants in prisons that make Gitmo look like a Club Med. Should reciprocity be so horrible? I agree that there should be controlled legal immigration.
 
No, thats not right. You clearly said you did not want them to pay taxes because you did not want them to gain a toehold with which to demand representation.
Click to expand...
You are selectively editing, taking out of context, and downright fabricating statements.

Okay, let's try this again.

First, if they are not here, they cannot earn income here and thus cannot pay US social security and income taxes. Simply put, if they are not here, we have no legal right to tax them. I hope this clears up the issue of illegals not paying income taxes.

However, we do have illegals who are already here. For those who are here and pay social security and income taxes on the money they shouldn't be earning in the first place, if they remain in an illegal status, they cannot file for tax refunds. I'm fine with that because they shouldn't be here. If that's a price they have to pay, so be it.

As for paying sales taxes, I never said nor implied they shouldn't pay sales taxes. But why exactly sales taxes are an issue, I don't really understand. Sales taxes are different from income taxes in several ways. For one, sales taxes are typically collected at the point of sale, thus there is usually no direct government involvement with the payer of the taxes. For another thing, non-citizens pay sales taxes every day. For example, foreign tourists and foreign business travelers pay sales taxes on the items and services they purchase while in the US, but they don't pay US income taxes.

So your statement claiming that I "favor waiving sales tax for illegals" not only has no basis in anything I wrote, but it also makes no sense. Anyone here - citizen, immigrant, tourist, or illegal - has to pay sales taxes, will not normally directly interact with the government in the payment of those sales taxes, and will gain no special right to a "representative voice" in our affairs. If the difference isn't clear to you by now, I don't know what else to tell you.

However, if you grant licenses to illegals so as to make them pay regulatory fees, you are giving them at least a minimal right to a voice in how things are run because you have sanctioned them to legally participate. Additionally, you have given at least a partially legal status to someone who before was totally illegal. Rights will be attached to that legal status no matter how tenuous it is because legality implies rights, whereas illegality generally doesn't. That is the toehold: a preliminary legal status that over time can be expanded. And that is the reason why the pro-illegals crowd is so intent on getting legal licenses, because they know it's the first step. They aren't stupid, nor are they spending time, money, and other resources on this issue because they're bored.
 
If we are going to accept illegals being here, then it is only fair that they be required to pay the same license fees and take the same tests as the rest of us to have a driver license. A driver license is a form of tax. You are letting them off if you don't collect it.

Think of sales tax. Should being an illegal alien also make them exempt from paying sales tax?
Click to expand...
Actually, no, driver license is not a form of tax. It's a fee paid as part of a contract between the applicant and the state. Once the applicant satisfies his part of the contract, to include fee payment, completion of any tests, and submission of any requisite documents, the applicant then gains a right in receiving the license.

A sales tax is not the same as a driver license. It does not create a right. Also, a sales tax is not the same as an income tax, because even foreign visitors must pay sales taxes, but they don't pay income taxes. To suggest that a sales tax is the same as an application fee, an income tax, an excise tax, etc. is simply wrong.
My opinion is build a wall, round them up, and send them home. Anything less means you are allowing illegals to be here.
Click to expand...
So you don't want illegals here, but you want to give them a right to a legal document that bestows upon them a legal privilege, which in turn gives them an opportunity to do other things more easily in this country.

Why do you want to enable them in staying here and taking even greater advantage of our society?
 
Actually, no, driver license is not a form of tax. It's a fee paid as part of a contract between the applicant and the state. Once the applicant satisfies his part of the contract, to include fee payment, completion of any tests, and submission of any requisite documents, the applicant then gains a right in receiving the license.
Click to expand...

So you don't think illegals should be able to enter into any contracts, or just driver licenses?

For example, if an illegal gets sick and goes to the hospital, he has to sign a form that says he promises to pay his bill (of course he probably won't pay, but he has to sign a contract saying he will). Do you think that should be illegal also?

Why do you want to enable them in staying here and taking even greater advantage of our society?
Click to expand...

They are going to be here whether they have driver licenses or not. I have never heard of an illegal saying "shoot, I am going back to Mexico because I can't get a driver license". If you have ever heard of that, please source it. If you make them get driver licenses, then they have to pay fees to help maintain the system, and they have to show at least a basic knowledge of how to drive.

Actually, no, driver license is not a form of tax. It's a fee paid as part of a contract between the applicant and the state. Once the applicant satisfies his part of the contract, to include fee payment, completion of any tests, and submission of any requisite documents, the applicant then gains a right in receiving the license.
Click to expand...

By that logic, property tax is not really a tax either. It is a contract between my and the state. Once I satisfy my part of the contract, to include fee payment, then I can the right of being able to live in my home.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top