Believer now---changing to buckshot

I'm glad someone mentioned that there are different sizes of birdshot...

My question is what of the sizes BBB (.190), T (.200), TT (.210) and F (.220) do you consider them to be bird or buck--actually they are called transitional sizes if you really want to know...

I loved making my own custom rounds, mixing various sizes of shot in the same husk--sometimes three different kinds and found that a load of #2 buck filled up with #2 bird is devastating as is #4 buck and #2 bird...#F and #BBB or #BB loaded makes a great coyote, feral dog load at 35 to 40 yards...

My only complaint is that if you're using a slug then you no longer have a shotgun but a big assed rifle and if that the case then use a damn rifle as the walls will not protect either from penetrating where they just might with lower diameter buck...

The purpose of a shotgun is to put a stream (string) of pellets into the area an object or objects is/are about to enter not for accurate shooting--excluding dedicated rifled slug setups for those populated states that require then for deer hunting...

You know what shooting a slug out of a smoothbore is called--a musket and has the same accuracy and lethality...

As to this controversy, let it be known that #2 and #BB will kill you, dead as a doornail, at room distances (4 to 5 yds) but I still prefer my load of #4 buck...Beyond that, stick with buck...

As to the defence of I just shot the miscreant with a load of birdshot doesn't mean **** if the sucker dies or is wounded, you will still be charged and/or sued, so that being the case blow the sucker out of the race, permanently! Also, let it be known that shooting the mother humper while they're running away and not firing on you is called murder as there is no implied threat any longer...

I use an old Rossi Hammered Coach Gun for a bedside piece and have one side loaded with a #2/2 mix and the other with straight #4 buck...It was all we needed the time we needed it so it stays but there is a Browning Gold (Semi auto) in the closet as well loaded 2 of the #2 mix, 2 #4 and lastly a #2 mix again...I abhor pump action guns...

Another thing that hasn't been addressed is powder charges--there is a significant difference between a #11 skeet load and a #4 super magnum turkey load...I don't know of any heavy loaded (factory) #10, #11 or #12 rounds! The lowest load of #4 that I know of is a field load (1 oz over 2 dram) and that is still in the 1,100 fps range...
 
BB achieves 12" of gelatin penetration I think. I can't find the site right now, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The only problem I have with most BB loads these days is that they are generally magnum steel loads. I have a pretty small wife who also uses my shotgun, so I'd really like to have something that won't jump out of her hands when she shoots it.

A mild/reduced recoil 4buck to BB would be my preference for strictly HD use. If you reload--and are willing to avoid the advise of those who say never to use reloaded ammo-- then I guess you could roll your own.

Reduced recoil OO buck is currently in my shotgun because that's the only RR load I can find.
 
Last edited:
My 870 is loaded 4+1 Winchester Ranger 9pellet 00Buck Low Recoil. I don't subscribe to the sound of the pump being racked to scare off a perp either. I would prefer not to give up my position.
 
If you shoot someone in self defense you will be judged by the "reasonable man" standard: would a reasonable man, knowing what you knew at the time, believe he or someone he could legally protect was in imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm.

Using anything less than deadly force like "shooting to wound" or less lethal ammo (not less than lethal) can be interpreted to mean you, as the best witness at the time, believed lethal force was not appropriate. If the "less lethal" bean bag or rubber buckshot does in fact kill or seriously injure someone you are now likely to be charged with battery or manslaughter.

The bottom line: only use weapons capable of deadly force when deadly force is warranted. Use the best means possible in your circumstances to stop a deadly threat immediately. Stopping is what matters for personal protection whether or not the attacker dies is actually incidental. You have to be sure your defense works the first time.
 
Well, I have read this whole thread so far, I even added my "opinion" as to what I feel comfortable with in a HD situation. I said #4 Turkey loads which is 2 oz. of #4 BIRDSHOT at 1200 fps. Personally, I doubt anyone being hit with this load at 5 to 7 yards (that is bigger than the average room and most hallways) is going to give you a problem. Someone posted that birdshot gives a shallow but "gruesome" wound. How many in here really think that a bad guy shot in the chest with a load of #4 shot that just ripped half the skin off of his chest, part of his stomach is hanging out is going to want to play a game?
The real problem with these kind of threads is we are ALL amaturers, NONE of us have any REAL life experience with the various sizes of shot in a HD situation or the legal consequences.
Ya, I know, all of a sudden we will have the expurts posting their experiences. Ya, like I am going to believe it now, a little late to add real life knowledge.
I can come up with a ton of "what if" situations, but in all actuality, they will never happen. In actuality, a bad guy shot with most anything is going to want out of the area.
We aren't fighting the Koreans or crazed Japaneese soldiers, we are talking the average bad guy breaking in to steal your stuff.
He doesn't want anything to do with you, he doesn't want a confritation. Just take your sh-t and get out.
I think there are many that would just LOVE to waste a bad guy, just to prove they are Rambo tough or something. It is obvious from the posts, many would love the scenerio, well, as long as THEY came out on top that is. Course, there is always the opposite outcome too that should be remembered.
I have a friend that shot an armed holdup man in his liquor store, yep, he drilled him, yep the bad guy died right there, yep, my friend went through hell. He was exonerated from wrongdoing, but it cost him months of Court time and thousands and thousand of dollars defending himself and a year and a half of his life. Now he just lives with the fact he shot and killed a 20 year old man. It ain't pretty. He told me if it happened again he would just let the guy have whatever he wanted. It is only money and stuff he said, not worth dying for and not worth killing for.
Well, I hope I pizz too many of you off but that is what I know about the subject.
Peace, live long and prosper and all that kinda stuff.
 
Xray,

I can only say I agree with you. Since you're in the medical field, take a look at this coroner's report from Australia:

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/173_11_041200/herdson/herdson.html

That's with #2 shot- which I think everyone will agree is big birdshot. At contact distance, too. Granted the first two were marginal as far as placement was concerned, but still- they were hits.

All I can say to the birdshot believers is, use birdshot if you want. I'm sticking with tight-patterning 2 3/4" 00 (Federal LE127-00) for close-up defensive use, and 1-ounce Brenneke slugs for further than 25 yards or for more penetration if needed. No, the house isn't that big, but I have no guarantees the shotgun might not get taken outside either.

lpl
 
Originally posted by hogdogs-

You call 911 and include that an ambulance is also required. Not for remorse as that is a sign of guilt.
Click to expand...

I fully agree. If you are in control of the situation and have had the right to use your firearm in a proper manner, you should have nothing to fear.

I'm a huge fan of peacefully and vocally diffusing a situation before it escalates to something serious. I feel that if I'm ever (EVER!) in the situation where I need to draw a firearm on another individual, it means that the situation has deteriorated so far that deadly force is fully, unequivocally required. If i'm going to wield a gun, it's to immediately end the situation, which requires 00 buck or a slug round. Leave the beanbags to the LEO's.

Heh :) here's a good analogy.

How do you stop a charging rhino?

Punching it in the nose isn't gonna help... it's just gonna REALLY kick your a** now :rolleyes:


and I am again compelled to post this website. It compares energies and penetration with Bird, Buck and Slug rounds.

http://www.shadonet.com/2008/01/cho...t-buckshot-or-slugs-for-shotgun-home-defense/
 
Last edited:
I'm sticking with tight-patterning 2 3/4" 00 (Federal LE127-00) for close-up defensive use, and 1-ounce Brenneke slugs for further than 25 yards or for more penetration if needed.
Click to expand...

I think it would be difficult to justify a shooting at 25yds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top