Believer now---changing to buckshot

Any birdshot should only be used as a last resort. Sure it can and has worked in the past, but a 22 has probably killed more people than any other handgun round. That does not mean anyone would say it is the best choice as a fight stopper..

There are too many things that can go wrong with birdshot. You may plan on only shooting at very close range, but after the SHTF anything can happen. What if you are locked in your bedroom waiting for the police and the bad guy is shooting at you through the door. You may have no other choice than to shoot back through the door. Even at close range heavy clothes can slow birdshot enough to keep it from being effective.

If you are worried about overpenetration just remember that buckshot is already designed not to overpenetrate or cause excessive damage downrange if you miss. This is why police use it instead of rifle rounds.

If I ever have to shoot someone in my home I would only do so if I were convinced the intruder is capable of doing more damage to my family than any collateral damage I may cause. I would be more concerned of being prosecuted for having to shoot someone multiple times with birdshot than once with buckshot.
 
This is one argument that should be put to rest by now.

Some people are willing to make the trade off, stating that the possibility of over-penetration (or missing) with buck is a bigger concern for them than having an effective stopper.

They are willing to take the risk that birdshot will not stop an attacker over the risk that buck will over penetrate (or they will miss) and hit an innocent.

That's fine and IMO a legit concern. Just don't come on here and tell people who know better that birdshot is as effective as buck.

If I were using the shotgun as a truck gun, it would be high-penetration slugs all the way. At home, I use 00 buck, but can't fault for the use of #4.
 
This whole argument pops right back up as soon as the last "what if?" thread falls below the screen. I mean, this is like a monthly thread.
I have NO doubt, buckshot or slugs make a better Man Stopper. In my particular living situation I HAVE to think about my neighbors on the other side of a wall or upstairs from me.
I have some Remington buffered turkey loads that put out almost 2 ounces of #4 birdshot at close to 1200 fps. I just can't believe a bad guy at across the room distance wouldn't either be stopped, killed or given pause to rethink his assault on my home and me. It certainly isn't the best, but I doubt he would survive short of a bullet proof vest. Then of course, there is always another round in the gun for a head shot if needed.
The longest distance in my place is less than 20 feet between walls, which means, unless the guy is a fly on the wall, distances are much shorter.
I would PREFER buckshot, I just have NO DOUBT #4 turkey loads wouldn't work at short distances.
 

Birdshot is for Politicians and Attorneys...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I load mine with #4 buck. Those 27 pellets look NASTY on paper from across the room distances.
 
There is a huge difference between a 7 or 8 birdshot and a 4.
What if you are locked in your bedroom waiting for the police and the bad guy is shooting at you through the door.
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THis would be a truly odd scenario. I mean, is this an assassin or a robber? What robber is not going to grab a tv or such and run if I am calling the police?

What if the BG is a mutant reptilian alien that has armor piercing scales?

Maybe this scenario is why I have the buckshot available and I just did not realize it...

Actually I would just get on the wall next to the door and wait until he came through the door.
 
Birdshot will kill you, it happend in Lincoln Nebraska about 3 months ago. A guy and his new wife were "clearing the house" on a drill and he forgot that his shotgun was loaded from skeet shooting earlier that day and shot her across the kitchen. Hit her in the upper right chest, he is up for manslaughter.
That being said, I prefer buckshot for my shotguns.
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Do you have a source for that info? If it's the local paper, I call BS and they got their story wrong. After seeing the wound on my patient at 4 feet, I find it very hard to believe that birdshot was used in that shooting.
 
Xrayeyes, I guess your going to have to call BS because the shooting was covered by local tv and local papers, sorry that this incident didn't make Fox News, I am sure they had more important things to do than report on it. Here is an excerpt from the Omaha World Hearld though:

Soon after his 911 call, emergency crews arrived and began giving first aid to his wife.
Alaina Beasley was rushed to BryanLGH Medical Center West. Josh Beasley was taken to the police department.
There were questions. A statement. Papers to sign to let authorities search their apartment.
Finally, police released him, and Josh Beasley went to the hospital.
There, he learned that pellets from the shotgun shell had pierced his wife's aorta, and doctors had to remove part of her right lung.
After 1 a.m. Sunday, Alaina's blood pressure was dropping. Doctors fought to keep her condition stable, but could not.
Josh Beasley stood at his wife's side and was holding her hand when she died, at 1:06 a.m.

She died 4 hours after she was shot. All I am saying is birdshot can kill at close range but it isn't buckshot. I have a great book you should see, the whole thing covers GSW, from the autopsies POV, lets just say it is very interesting what some guns do when you don't think they can do it.
 
I recommend #4 buck, T shot "hevishot home defense" or Dixie Triballs

I have never had to shoot an invader, but I've seen video footage of people shot in the face with birdshot. This woman barely lived, true, and didn't attack her shooter (domestic violence,) but the footage shows it was not a lethal wound.
Woman shot by husband 5 years ago, recieves first US face transplant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpuFLXMqa4Q
Another case (black woman shot by boyfriend, lost most of her lower and central face, blinded) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDFl8sjw0h8)

I like #4 buck as it can kill wild pigs (predatory pigs), and I think 3" Goose hunting T-shot loads would do, esp HeviShot (heavier than led alloy shot, harder than led, goes farther). And you should shoot a game animal with a Dixie Slugs (www.dixieslugs.com) Tri Ball 3" musketball shell (3x .66 caliber cast lead balls) HOly smokes, these will knock a deer or coyote stone dead at 50 yards. Shoot something in your yard, like an old refrigerator. You will be convinced!
 
Close range and across the room are two different things. And knowing the news media, there is no way I would believe they know the difference, nor reported correctly that it was birdshot and not buckshot! If this was reported to you by LEO or the husband himself, I would believe it and you have my apologies for doubting. Otherwise, the news media is ALWAYS suspect IMHO.
 
One of the big things you anti-birdshotters are missing is the difference in size between a #4 and #8 bird shot. There is a HUGE difference. I would guess the #4 weighs about 4 times what the 7 or 8 does. I don't remember anyone suggesting #7 for HD.
 
John you are missing the difference from #4 BS and 00 buck... Take this a different direction.... how many guys rely on .22 shorts compared to .357 or .45 caliber handguns... get back with me when you got them stats figured...
Sorry bud but I am not gonna dip out of his argument due to boredom... NO ONE SHOULD BE PERSUADED TO UNDER GUN FOR ANY REASON!!!! All in once the gun is graved....
Brent
 
#4 birdshot only has about 7 inches of penetration in gelatin. Many only penetrated 5". Remember that it will probably a third less penetration in a real body as the FBI lit said. That's only a fraction of the penetration of a 22 short or 25 acp. So hogdogs and I have been besmirching the reputation of the 22short and 25 ACP.

Small sized birdshot such as this #4 heavy dove load is a poor choice for deployment with a tactical shotgun. Wounds inflicted from birdshot tend to be gruesome yet shallow as they lack the penetration required to reach vital cardiovascular or central nervous system structures.
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Personally, I don't think it matters if the load is called "dove" load, "golden pheasant" or "turkey" load. #4 birdshot is #4 shot.

Lead BBs, however, are one birdshot that I could live with around the house as they are good for 12" of gellatin penetration:

Closeup of the cross section. Visible are the individual wound channels created by the bbs. Likely a very effective close range tactical load.

Before lead shot was banned throughout most of North America for use on waterfowl, Lead BB was the load of choice for long range goose hunting. The same performance characteristics that made it so well suited for that application merit consideration when evaluating short range loads for your tactical shotgun. We feel lead BB has it's place, being a reasonable balance of penetration and pellet count. That being said, it is not recommended for medium range work. #4 buckshot is the minimum pellet size we recommend for general tactical applications.
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Still quoting from here: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109958
 
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I am a believer in to do what ever is necessary at the time and worry about the opportunity cost later. I have my HD shotgun loaded with a BB in the chamber followed by 7 slugs. There is an old saying; Birdshot is for the birds, buck shot is for the bucks and slugs are for the thugs.
 
Use the most lethal round available!

This discussion once came up with a county Sheriff - his advice:

Make sure the badguy is INSIDE the house

Do NOT shoot him in the back.

Make sure he is DEAD - because "dead men don't sue", (although his family probably will).

Myron
 
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my 870 is loaded with 3 1/2" 00 buck. 18 pellets of GTF outta my house. If his family wants to sue fine. I'll live in the poor house if they win. but my family will be safe.
 
Yes, birdshot can kill. Then again so can a .22 caliber, in the right hands. But, for HD, I prefer 00 buck (low recoil, 9 pellet). When it comes to defending my home and those within, I prefer to tip the odds in my favor. In terms of penetration (or overpenetration), well...thats why I actually take the time to practice with each HD weapon I own.

Now, I could get specific and, based on how much clothing a BG would most likely be wearing, choose a "winter load" and/or a "summer load," but I havent reached that point yet.
 
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