Beating the SWAT team, Your suggestions?

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The "Profesional" with Jean Reno
is such a great movie!!!!!!!!
Three Swat guys got shot to s**t
in my area. The BG used a deer
rifle to penetrate their body
armor. All you need is a scanner
to monitor their radio traffic ,
a high powered repeating rifle of
many variations & a gas mask is a
must in order to engage in a non
confused state. They shot the s**t
out of those ATF guys at Waco. The
"Profesional" could not have killed
that many Swat with "pistol shots".
You need a high powered repeating
"rifle" , FN FAL .308 will do nicely.


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"Al veda sane"
 
Long Path,

How may a person live a wholesome, real, and rewarding personal life and still avoid becoming a targeted suspect when there are so many agencies out there needing and creating criminals to arrest in order to support their jobs, I ask?

One simply cannot do it these days, without the real, feral, fear of federal attack & seizure of property.

As an example; I like birds. No, I LOVE birds, and run a huge feeding ground for all of them.

But if the feds ever found out that I had managed to attract & nourish an "endangered
species" to my land, all my land would then be forfeit to an armed agency "for the birds".

How can one "not be there" if the very thing being attacked is one's very center of being - health, happiness, and home?
 
Thanks for all the feedback, interesting and funny ideas.

Remember this thred should be taken lightly, I discourage anyone to engage in a confortation with well armed police commandos. The attackers could be anybody, lets say they are a oppressive goverment police force like the Gustopo(spelling). I want to see if there is any possibe way to survive a "swat like" situation. I watch a lot of movies, so curious if this happen in real life.

BTW, I play Rainbow Six too. So its very possible to win in a defender role. But thats only a game.
 
Simple answer. They show up and surround my house. The negotiator calls up on the phone.
I tell him things are cool if they have a uniformed officer with a legal search warrant. Have him knock on the door and I'll let him in with myself unarmed and surrender.
Try the battering ram crap and I'll see y'all in hell.

And for those who say that dynamic entry is to increase LEO safety: just use a smart bomb on my house- it will be a hell of lot safer!

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Interesting that Randy Weaver was called a "criminal". Usually he is called "Randy Weaver White Sepratist". An unfitting legacy for a US citizen whose wife and son were murdered by agents of their own government.



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Better days to be,

Ed
 
SWAT and similar tactics are necessary to combat dangerous criminals. However, once such teams are established, they MUST be used to justify the expense. Frequently, such teams and tactics are used when it is inappropriate, dangerous, and immoral.

I fear NO criminal in America so much as I fear the treachery, avarice, and lust for
tyrannical control so proudly displayed by our federal government and its minions.

If a SWAT-like team turns its attention on you, by accident, for funding, for legitimate reasons or otherwise - you're screwed. You will be VERY lucky just to survive the incident without being crippled or killed.

There is NO "beating the SWAT team". It's a dangerous, juvenile dream which will get you and your loved ones killed by those trained to kill you. And they will be called "heroes" and be promoted.

Now ask me again why I say we need to change our accursed, out-of-control federal government and return our government to Constitutional control.

Vote - for a change.

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited August 19, 1999).]
 
Ed, Spartacus, Shortcut, and Dennis all of your last postings really tell it like it is. Shortcut your comments about just feeding birds could cause the Federals to attack you; how true. I make the following comment to all members of TFL. There are so many laws on the books that, I bet my entire Firearms collection, that not one member in this forum can go through an entire day without "breaking the law". I further bet that if any of you get behind the wheel of a vehicle you "break a law" within 2 miles. Just think about this! You can't go through an entire day w/o breaking the law and unfortunately there are SOME LEO's that are just waiting for you to do so. Scary
Dennis your thought of voting and such is very noble but here in Maryland elections don't mean squat. Back in 94 the Governor's election was rigged; dead people voted. Wasn't much done about it matter of fact the one paper rag called the "Loser" just having "sour grapes". Of course I don't think it is as bad in other states. At least I hope not.
 
Well, gee, Guttsmoke,
Here in Texas we don't deprive a soul of his voting rights just because he's passed on!

Get out there and fight for ALL the votes. Make sure they don't vote for the wrong guy just because they're dead!

PS: Don't squat with your spurs on... ;)
--------

Seriously, I guess voter fraud also happened in Missouri with the CCW issue. If they keep this up, if enough people get fed up with non-responsive government and voting fraud, somebody's gonna bring back that poster from WWII - "My M-1 Does My Talking!"

These "Slick" guys better recognize that as the frogs' water gets hotter, the ice gets thinner for ole Slick!
 
the only way you might survive and avoid capture is to think outside the box

they managed to run an underground railroad with hidden rooms...

true, we now have thermal imagers and helio's, you would have to plan for a wide range of obstacles.

occupying an apartment building may have advantages due to the surrounding cover.
secret door under the sink into next apartment, that you have lease on under separate identity.
They don't have a warrent for that dwelling...

Star Wars exit stage left via trash shoot
Have an ENG video camera and a press badge handy and re appear
they might escort you out of the area...


after all, we are talking about fooling humans
;)

dZ
 
Mike,

I agree with your comment that the defender in THIS scenario would be at a disadvantage, I misinterpreted your original statement... thought you were just taking the position that any defender would be at a disadvantage.

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-Essayons
 
As a matter of public relations, the government can NOT be seen to lose in a standoff situation. If you fort up, and try to hold them at bay, they may sit it out for a while, but they'll eventually start escalating, to the point where a blockbuster bomb will land on your roof if that's what it takes. Look at how they treated the MOVE people!

So I'd say that if you're really planning on having a Swat team show up at your front door, you either surrender, or scoot FAST. Surrender doesn't take a lot of preparation, does it? Just practice your groveling, and hope that they don't stage an "accident"; It's your word against their's, after all, and you don't want to have to dispute their version of events via a medium.

In order to have any options at all, your front door is going to have to be durable enough that they bounce when they hit it; Ditto for your windows. You can buy doors that durable, with bolts which engage on all four sides. For the windows, they sell a plastic film in huricane areas which is suppose to stop wind blown debris, and which has stopped small arms fire on occasion.

Next, you need to know what's going down, without sticking your head out the window, and getting it shot off. Miniture cameras are real cheap these days; Conceal them around your property for complete coverage.

Now you need a way to communicate with the outside world; Can't call 911 if they cut the wires, can you? Or give your side of the story when the news reports that you're a drug gang. Get a cell phone under an assumed name.

Now you've given yourself time to think, and intelligence and communications. You need a way out. A tunnel would be ideal, if you can build it without outsiders knowing; Watch some old German POW movies... Incidentally, the tunnel doesn't have to be a dead loss if you're not attacked; It would make a nifty basement range, wouldn't it?

Next: You want them to think that you're still in the house, while you're getting out of Dodge! That way the manhunt is delayed a bit. Another use for that cell phone, on hands free. You can negotiate with the HRT while negotiating traffic. And some remote controlled pyrotechnics, to convince them that you're there and ARMED.

Finally comes the kicker: Do you want to draw blood, or make them think? I'd go with a simulated bomb, and a note to let them know that they'd be dead if you'd wanted it that way. And while you're at it, conceal a few webcams around the place, to catch them on video when they plant the incriminating evidence.

Have fun, and remember: You better get all the details right the first time; You're NOT going to have a chance to do it over again!

P.S. I suppose it goes without saying that you'd better have a fake identity already established, along with caches of clothing and the like.

P.P.S. Of course, to make it really sweet, arrange for your fake identity to be raided!

[This message has been edited by Brett Bellmore (edited August 20, 1999).]
 
Are you writting a book?
Just asking - cause this could all end up in a very interesting bit of fiction.

I am working on a book - but it is going in a different direction here... Maybe I might use some of this at another time.

What? I might USE something from here?
Aw heck yes - a writter draws from EVERY THING... And if I may - we got a lot of Charicters here!
;)


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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."


RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
There is a way to stop them cold no matter how many of them there are or how well armed they are, but I am sure not discussing it here, but it involves a self contained breathing system, about 12 feet of det cord and one other item. Better plan on leaving the country though. :)
 
Sorry to come in late... I know enough LEO in my community, that if there was a problem, they'd come on over, knock on my door, and ask me about it. No SWAT team needed. It pays to live in a small town! And it pays to have a good reputation...

[This message has been edited by Gino (edited August 24, 1999).]
 
Forget FAIR they won't play that way!
Just be your loyal law abiding, military serving self and you will be fine!
Hank
 
There is NO way for a moral person to beat them. Are you going to try to kill these men for doing their jobs. The SWAT team takes orders from their superiors. You think their boss is going to be first through your door? Besides, once your door is broken down, you can't hope to win, you can only hope to survive. Check out this thread on a related note: http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=32492


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"A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can take from you." - Ramsay Clark

"Rights are liable to be perverted to wrongs when we are incapable of rightly exercising them." - Sarah Josepha Hale
 
Blues Man,

It almost sounds as though you are giving the "Nuremburg defense" for obeying illegal orders. Following an illegal order makes the follower legally culpable. This would make a very high percentage of all ATF actions illegal, of course, as they involve firearm "infractions" that are infringements on our firearm rights. So, following an illegal order on a SWAT team not only makes the agent, de facto, a criminal, but an armed and motivated one, at that. One potentially in my place of abode.

Going back to something said at the beginning of the thread, and touched upon slighly since, are the problems associated with using a pistol-calibered round against SBA. That's why God made rifles and slugs. If you have to go to a gunfight, a longarm should be what you reach for. If it's going to be that size, you might as well have a real caliber, as well. 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm would be ideal for most, I think, with 7.62x51mm excelling in experienced hands.

One philosophy that should be considered in any conflict is this idea: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Don't fight their fight.[/quote] If your potential opponents like short-range Class Three squirt guns, use longer-range platforms. If you face those who like the dark, stay in the light. If your enemies like secrecy, stay public...you get the idea. There is an ultimate conclusion to all this, but I leave the reader to deduce it.
 
Spectre,

The government disregards our Constitution, makes laws by edict, and decrees what is
legal or illegal. We, as subjects, can not change that.

The key is to re-define what is “legal”. Return to Constitutional Law and become citizens
again! Vote the Bushes, Clintons, Freehs, Gores, Renos, etc. out of office and replace
them with officials who will abide by the Constitution.

You know what the answer is. And it’s NOT trying to kill a superior armed force of up to
a hundred armed and trained militarized police officers who take you by surprise at 3AM.
That only gets good Americans killed one by one and justifies further government
terrorism in the legislatures, courts, and our para-military police force.

Don’t get killed. Vote the blighters out!

If you change the leaders, you change the policy.
If you change the policy, you change the procedures.
If you change the procedures, the SWAT problem goes away.

Vote - for a change!


[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited August 28, 1999).]
 
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