back up gun or not?

My CC gun is my backup gun, it goes where my Full-size cannot. I'd like to carry a 5" Barreled gun around with me but that's impossible, so it sits nearby. I do carry it's 2 mags with me and 2 for the CC (God help me if I have to shoot 58 rounds to protect myself, but I've got 'em none the less).
 
I would say a BUG is only necessary if you feel better about having one.
Personally for me,one gun is enough for my needs.
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Right. As long as you leave out the unforseen reasons why a BUG might save your life, then a BUG isn't necessary.

Interesting logic that could apply to the primary gun as well.

I carry a J-frame in my inside vest pocket--sometimes in a pants pocket. I can secure my primary weapon in the car and not be unarmed at Dr. appointments, etc.

With a BUG, I can arm a competent person if necessary.

In the Winter when it's cold, the coat is zipped up restricting access to my primary, the J-frame (or LCR) is in my right coat pocket---where my hand is.


Not meaning to pick on you personally, but your logic is widespread and your statement speaks for a lot of people who have the averages all figured out.

The number of shots fired in gunfights, the % of the time one needs to reload, that they don't live in a bad neighborhood (what could go wrong there?), etc., etc.

Without considering that averages include the extremes, they're equipped for the "average" deadly encounter.

Just my thoughts on the matter.:cool:
 
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Mleake is absolutely right. In TX law and probably others, drawing the gun when there is a threat that qualifies as justified to use lethal force does not necessitate you do shoot. Challenging the opponent is perfectly legal and not brandishing. Read your local statutes or talk to a lawyer.

If you don't know this - you need to reconsider carrying. Sorry to be blunt but that's that. There are many good books and sites that discuss nuances of the law.

Since I've done a fair amount of high training, the challenge of don't move and/or drop the gun is parto of trainaing in many states.

You also need to train to a level where you can 'triage' what you do, so to speak. Immediately shoot or challenge, it's a decision. Either can be right or wrong depending on circumstances.
 
BUG

"Deterrent? Guns are not deterrent tools. Period. There may be documentary cases which show that a gun deterred a criminal but those are merely cases where the criminal got lucky, nothing more. Thinking about a gun as a deterrent will more likely get you killed than not."

Several years ago I was in a city, 3rd car in line at a traffic light. A young man was sitting on a park bench about 30 yards away. He got up and started running directly towards me. We made eye contact, I retrieved a fanny pack from under my seat. He didn't know what I had but we had maintained eye contact the whole time (maybe 4 seconds at most) When I got my fanny pack into my lap he put both hands up and changed course, lucky guess?
I have no idea if he had bad intentions but I'm pretty sure that he wasn't going to ask me where I got my hair cut. There was no brandishing but he was quick to catch on.
 
"Deterrent? Guns are not deterrent tools. Period. There may be documentary cases which show that a gun deterred a criminal but those are merely cases where the criminal got lucky, nothing more. Thinking about a gun as a deterrent will more likely get you killed than not."
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The gun alone does deter crime by a margin of 14 to one over the fired gun. Can't dismiss that many incidents as merely cases were the criminal "got lucky". Probably more like showed some sense. Many an incident has de-escalated to a no shoot situation by the time the gun was brought to bear.

No, I don't have a link to the source. NRA, or maybe John Lott, perhaps. Maybe even Dept. of Justice, if I recall.

I do agree that looking at the gun as a means of detering crime without being prepared to use it is a dangerous way to think.
 
It seems that a BUG is necessary to give you insurance against loss or malfunction of the primary gun. If the primary gun is taken from you, you have not lost all protection.

--Wag--
 
Don't see the need

I agree with Clay who said:

"I carry one gun for self defense to prevent injury or death for me or my family.

They want my wallet? Here it is.

They want my car? Here’s the key.

I don’t intend to start a war."

I carry, but my gun is a last resort to be used only if in fear of deadly force. The odds of the average citizen having to pull a gun are probably much lower than 20%. The odds of your gun breaking at that momnet are probably so far out they would have to be calculated by some computer program. Yes possible, but so is being hit by a space debris. However ones mans paranoia is another mans common sense I suppose.
 
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Without considering that averages include the extremes, they're equipped for the "average" deadly encounter.
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Yep, a person doesn't need to have a high degree of mathematical training to understand that "average" is a very misleading word. The average temperature in the wintertime where I live is about 43 degrees. However, that average includes the extremes of -10 and +70 - both extremes occurring very reliably. :) Given that, even the very illiterate (who also occur very reliably) know enough to put antifreeze in their radiator.

I have been out of my home and into the general population about 24,000 days in my life. I have only needed to draw my gun twice during that time. If my poor mathematical skills are working, that means I incurred a risk level of about 1 in a 10,000 when I left my home. Considering that a lot of those years were less violent than current times, the odds are probably worse now.

If the odds were the same for having an auto accident each day that I drive, that would not deter me from driving. It would, however, educate me enough to use a seatbelt and be alert to traffic around me. The point being made is that averages, mathematical odds, and statistics are relevant to our everyday lives, but only if they are applied with common sense - which appears to NOT happen "reliably". :(
 
No need for BUG for me either because if I can't shoot you with the gun that I have which is a G22 with three (15) round magazine then I deserve to be shot:D
 
The odds of your gun breaking at that momnet are probably so far out they would have to be calculated by some computer program. Yes possible, but so is being hit by a space debris. However ones mans paranoia is another mans common sense I suppose.
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tenusdad, other factors can pop up besides the gun breaking. If a true HD/SD situation does befall us(lets both hope that neither of us or our families ever come to pass this), having a BUG could help. Its not always as easy as draw shoot what I got and its over. You and/or your family could be cornered or need more shots. Also I hear you on your last line quoted above as many people might think you or me is paranoid because we carry a weapon. // "Why would he need to carry a weapon here?" is one example you might hear if you tell family members at a family gathering you're CCW.

**I was watching on tv once recently where two BGs home invaded two other guys' home(real incident with interviews from the victim etc). they had taken the man's gun who was a 20something yr old iraqi vet and had ransacked the entire house(they were hostage for over an hour while one man watched the two with his shotgun while cooly talking to them and the other did the ransacking). The entire time the iraq war vet had a semi BUG. well, the BG with the shotgun then said, "You know whats gonna happen now, right?" as his buddy brought him the tape and said tie um up --

long story short he finally got a very brief chance to draw his BUG and shoot him. he still had to fight the man who charged and the only other shot fired before the BG died was a shotgun blast point blank thru the victim/hero's leg. It all happened that quick: one shot from a BUG did the trick but took time to kill the BG. That BUG saved his life as well as his roomates. the 2nd suspect ran.**

Listen its just one story so dont get me wrong - I hadnt been planning on telling the story at first but it came to mind. A BUG can come in handy whether you are going to sleep at night, hiking in a national forest, or CCW. Some people think its paranoid to own a gun in the 1st place which is completely ridicuolous and irrational in my eyes. I do not think someone who carries two firearms is paranoid.
 
The odds of the average citizen having to pull a gun are probably much lower than 20%. The odds of your gun breaking at that momnet are probably so far out they would have to be calculated by some computer program. Yes possible, but so is being hit by a space debris. However ones mans paranoia is another mans common sense I suppose.
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And some of us have met Mr. Murphy far too often. My wife has had shingles 5 times. Doctors say that there's only one in a million chance you would get them a second time, and a third time is incalculable.:rolleyes: I have carried a BUG for most of the time I've carried. And the BUG becomes primary when leaving in a split second without donning primary. A .32 ACP is not much primary, but remember rule 1 of a gunfight: Have a gun. Glenn is right, a small BUG is no trouble to carry, mine is practically unnoticeable.
 
Right. As long as you leave out the unforseen reasons why a BUG might save your life, then a BUG isn't necessary.

Interesting logic that could apply to the primary gun as well.

I carry a J-frame in my inside vest pocket--sometimes in a pants pocket. I can secure my primary weapon in the car and not be unarmed at Dr. appointments, etc.

With a BUG, I can arm a competent person if necessary.

In the Winter when it's cold, the coat is zipped up restricting access to my primary, the J-frame (or LCR) is in my right coat pocket---where my hand is.


Not meaning to pick on you personally, but your logic is widespread and your statement speaks for a lot of people who have the averages all figured out.

The number of shots fired in gunfights, the % of the time one needs to reload, that they don't live in a bad neighborhood (what could go wrong there?), etc., etc.

Without considering that averages include the extremes, they're equipped for the "average" deadly encounter.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

I like your thoughts on the matter..
I however am very aware of my surroundings and pay attention to what's going on..
I have no opposition to a BUG at all,if fact encourage it if needed.
But for me.. 30 rounds of 9mm hollow point should do the job(while I carry)
If not then I got in deeper than I should have.(I don't mind running away)
 
If I can't shoot you with my Glock -

Well, my Glock 19 broke a spring about 10k rounds. My 1911's plunger unstaked itself during a major match.

A Taurus revolver decide not to revolve.

Yep, as said before the bug is in part for malfunctions that you can't tap, rack and bang.

So, if you don't want to carry a bug, the most likely reason is the odds evaluation as compared to thinking you go through 45 rounds.

Oh, you can get your gun shot in your hands. See that in sims quite a bit.
 
some of us have met Mr. Murphy far too often

I kind-of look at my carry gun like a spare tire. I'd rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I've had a couple of flats in the past 20 or so years , but no occasion to pull a gun. I carry a spare tire but I don't feel like I need to carry two. Thats all - if somebody want's to carry two or three guns, and can stand it, then go for it.

A body can "what if" over and over. What if I'm attacked by six large iorn-pumping meth-crazed, crowbar armed outlaw bikers, wearing body armor and orange mohawks. I pull my Desert Eagle in 50 A&E that I carry in an inside the pants holster and just at that moment the barrel falls off. I go for my back-up Remington sawed-off 12 gauge and to my horror the reciever has rusted away from being carried in a sling under my arm. I simply have to make do with the two full size 1911's I carry in matching ankle holsters (for back-up, back-up) and the 18 spare mags in my fanny pack. Hey anybody know the screen writer for Resident Evil? I might sell this. :D

Seriously, if I were a narc on the Mexican border I would feel the need for a full size somthing and a serious back up gun. For most of us Joe Lunchboxes going to soccer practice I think one will probably do.
 
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A 380 KelTec or Ruger conceals at the ankle pretty easily ( or in another pocket).

Should your primary carry malfunction or -God forbid- it get out of your hands some way,it would be nice to have something other then "Please -stop- don't shoot me." to say.

I don't see any problem with a second weapon.

That's not paranoid-that's being prepared.
 
I guess my question is, assuming clothing allows, and comfort isn't badly affected, what is the downside to having a BUG?

People might think you paranoid? If you are concealing properly, they won't know in the first place.

So, while many see no practical upside to a BUG, what is a practical downside?
 
Hmm, some might ask retired Detroit PD Detective Sgt, (Homicide) Evan Marshall, a guy who has seen the elephant more than once, what his opinion is? He says his neighborhood has a crime wave when a bicycle is stolen - but he carries three pistols. he's a canny old guy and I listen to him.
I carried a BUG when doing armored trucking, and was called paranoid. So what, someone's opinion. I still carry a BUG sometimes, when the weather allows, and since I am the one who determines what is comfortable for me, it's no big deal. AZ law doesn't place any limit on Constitutional Carry, carry as many as you want of what ever legal type you want. I hope I never need Round #1 in my primary. I REALLY hope I don't need Round #Last in the BUG!!!:)
Ah, we also have a brandishing law, it's called "Defensive Display", meaning "The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force."
This covers going to Low Ready, saying "I have a gun!", or just gripping it in the holster, under most circumstances.
 
Does anyone remember and old ad (I think it may have been Bianchi) where the individual in a tuxedo had 14 or 15 concealed guns on him. Racking my brains trying to remember it, might have been in the late 80s early 90s. :confused:
 
What if I'm attacked by six large iorn-pumping meth-crazed, crowbar armed outlaw bikers, wearing body armor and orange mohawks.
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That was a good anaology+was crackin me up no matter what one believes on this thread Tenusdad!:D

If "The Incident" ever happens where I need to draw a weapon for SD/HD of myself or my family I believe that it is Very possible that a BUG might be needed or useful. Of course a speedloader comes in handy too. I have one at the ready, yet I choose not to carry that on my person. I've never thought about it, but I guess I subconciously figured if I ever need a reload than I'll need the extra time I'll save by already having a loaded BUG.
 
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