Autos can be "iffy"
- Thread starter Smaug
- Start date
I know when I buy a revolver I load it and it shoots, when I buy a pistol I sometimes have to find what ammo it likes, have to break it in so the little minor malfunction it might have works its way thru the gun till it gets broke in so I can count on it to shoot when I pull the trigger. These are what happens to me when I buy a gun.
This is true but not the issue... a gun grab on either a revolver or auto can stop either of them from functioning in about the same way, and as you stated - in both cases the grabber may only be stopping the subsequent round.
There are times when close contact shots are made in situations where the opponent does not have the ability or opportunity to make a grab (as was the case with the Reston shooting).
If you stick a fully loaded revolver in the belly of a bad guy and pull the trigger – most likely the next pull of the trigger is going to fire a round. If you do that with an auto that might not be the case.
g.willikers
New member
Ak, Ak, again.
Another revolver jammed!
I was closing the empty cylinder and it got trapped, by the hand sticking out of the frame.
The leading edge of one chamber slipped by the stuck out hand, but not the trailing edge.
Couldn't close or open the cylinder.
Finally managed to jimmy the hand back into the frame with a tiny screwdriver.
What in the heck?
You guys started this conversation and my revolvers have seemed to succumb to the power of suggestion.
Gonna' have to get a muzzle loader next.
Or a bow and arrow.
Very weird.
Another revolver jammed!
I was closing the empty cylinder and it got trapped, by the hand sticking out of the frame.
The leading edge of one chamber slipped by the stuck out hand, but not the trailing edge.
Couldn't close or open the cylinder.
Finally managed to jimmy the hand back into the frame with a tiny screwdriver.
What in the heck?
You guys started this conversation and my revolvers have seemed to succumb to the power of suggestion.
Gonna' have to get a muzzle loader next.
Or a bow and arrow.
Very weird.
While this is true, the point is that it is not an issue with a revolver. So long as the load is powerful enough to make it out of the barrel, it will work in a revolver.
Ideally you're right. However, if your selection of ammunition is severely limited, as it was for many people a couple of years ago, then you need to be able to use what is available. If you're using an auto and your gun isn't reliable with the ammo that's available, you're up a tree without a leaf.
Again, under ideal circumstances you'd be correct. However, most people are not competent enough with gunsmithing work to go polishing parts of their handguns. Polishing also would have done no good in the OP's case because his problem was an ejection rather than feeding issue. Selection of bullet type also only works if you've got a wide variety of ammunition to choose from.
And here we come to one of those big "ifs". If you can find ammo that works reliably (you may not have been able to in '09) and if you do a minimum amount of maintenance (many people don't) then the reliability difference between an auto and a revolver is nearly negligible. Both of those, however, are pretty big "ifs".
Another factor here is that the minimum maintenance on an auto is more extensive than that of a revovler. While both types need routine cleaning and lubrication, one should, if they plan to depend on an auto, also replace certain springs periodically (recoil, extractor, and magazine springs in particular). With the exception of those that have fallen victim to a poor kitchen table gunsmith, revolvers very rarely wear out their springs. I don't believe I've ever encountered a revolver with springs that were weakened to the point of unreliability. I have, however, seen several autos that were unreliable because of weak recoil, extractor, or magazine springs.
peacefulgary
New member
And every army around the globe who issues autoloaders also trains their soldiers to perform failure drills.
The US military does not teach its personnel what to do IF their weapon should jam...
The US military teaches its personnel what to do WHEN their weapon jams.
And I have had issues with revolvers going out of time (that could wreck your day); with an over OAL factory load fitting into the cylinder, but binding its rotation (Ruger SBH, not the gun's fault but so what?); with the extractor star skipping over one rim, and me taking many many seconds to disentangle and remove the case from its chamber (that would be bad during a combat reload).
Oh, yeah, I have also had a squib (and failed to notice, and blew the gun up real good with the next trigger pull... .44 Special feels like nothing from an N frame when you've been shooting magnums, but I should have noticed it REALLY felt like nothing); that was also factory ammo.
Point being, ammo problems, user error, and plain old age and wear can also impact revolvers.
Revolvers also tend to have many more small, moving parts than do modern autos.
Oh, yeah, I have also had a squib (and failed to notice, and blew the gun up real good with the next trigger pull... .44 Special feels like nothing from an N frame when you've been shooting magnums, but I should have noticed it REALLY felt like nothing); that was also factory ammo.
Point being, ammo problems, user error, and plain old age and wear can also impact revolvers.
Revolvers also tend to have many more small, moving parts than do modern autos.
People have discussed this for 100 years and the question has been settled. But every few months it pops up here again. It is boring.
Hands down, no question about it, for day to day casual use, for carry in the woods, for range time, for sd, wheelguns tend to have less problems and malfunction less than semis do. This is obviously the case.
Now so what? It is a bit of information that tells you nothing about what you should do next.
Take the same DA wheelgun and place it in the trenches of Europe in WWI and you find that in the mud and grit of that war and others, the wheelgun is at a distinct disadvantage to the semi. The DA revolver malfunctioned more than the Luger, the Tokarov, the 1911, the Radom Vis, the BHP, the P38, etc. this is what occurred. Sure revolvers were used but they also proved less rugged than semis. This was and is the case. The Garand proved itself every bit as rugged as the Springfield and Enfields that preceded it, even though it broke down more often and was harder to fix when it did.
Yep, soldiers and everyone else who uses semis needs to know how to clear a malfunction (same with a wheelgun actually) but the semi brings you something that a revolver does not have. This is why they are widely used despite their greater complexity.
A horse is more reliable than a truck. A bicycle more reliable than a Humvee. So if you need to pick up a sixpack at the market take your vehicle or a bicycle, your call. But if you need to haul something 50 miles best use a motor vehicle even though it is less reliable than a donkey.
A well maintained wheelgun is a very useful thing. So is a well maintained pistol and the one can be the equal of the other in terms of reliability. But the semi is more complex and dependent on it's magazine. For the day to day a wheelgun is a good choice. But if you get called for the big shoot you may find you want those 13 rounds in the mag and the quick reloads on tap. You will look for the AK over the bolt action maybe. nd you will likely try to make sure they run reliably even though it takes a bit more of your attention than a wheelgun.
tipoc
Hands down, no question about it, for day to day casual use, for carry in the woods, for range time, for sd, wheelguns tend to have less problems and malfunction less than semis do. This is obviously the case.
Now so what? It is a bit of information that tells you nothing about what you should do next.
Take the same DA wheelgun and place it in the trenches of Europe in WWI and you find that in the mud and grit of that war and others, the wheelgun is at a distinct disadvantage to the semi. The DA revolver malfunctioned more than the Luger, the Tokarov, the 1911, the Radom Vis, the BHP, the P38, etc. this is what occurred. Sure revolvers were used but they also proved less rugged than semis. This was and is the case. The Garand proved itself every bit as rugged as the Springfield and Enfields that preceded it, even though it broke down more often and was harder to fix when it did.
Yep, soldiers and everyone else who uses semis needs to know how to clear a malfunction (same with a wheelgun actually) but the semi brings you something that a revolver does not have. This is why they are widely used despite their greater complexity.
A horse is more reliable than a truck. A bicycle more reliable than a Humvee. So if you need to pick up a sixpack at the market take your vehicle or a bicycle, your call. But if you need to haul something 50 miles best use a motor vehicle even though it is less reliable than a donkey.
A well maintained wheelgun is a very useful thing. So is a well maintained pistol and the one can be the equal of the other in terms of reliability. But the semi is more complex and dependent on it's magazine. For the day to day a wheelgun is a good choice. But if you get called for the big shoot you may find you want those 13 rounds in the mag and the quick reloads on tap. You will look for the AK over the bolt action maybe. nd you will likely try to make sure they run reliably even though it takes a bit more of your attention than a wheelgun.
tipoc
SwampYankee
New member
Not if you're pulling Charter Arms off the shelf...
youngunz4life
New member
for me its revolver any day of the week, but I do respect others opinions on the issue. I feel more comfortable with revolvers, so that is what I stick with. Of course I own one "ready-to-go" speedloader to go with my CCW, and I also have 2 other revolvers that can serve as NY reloads and/or be on my wife's person at any given time. Lastly, I also feel more comfortable letting my revolver sit for longer periods of time more than I do a semi-auto + I trust my revolvers in the outdoors/weather more. All of this is just my personal preference. To each his own. All the best.
tipoc said:
I'm not in the Army any more, tipoc. I won't ever have the need to engage more than one or two threats. The rest of your post (and your next one too) was just going off on a tangent and suggesting because they are chosen by the army, they are therefore better for civilians too, so I won't bother with it. I thought I made it clear that I was talking about typical self defense for normal everyday people.
tipoc said:
...and yet, here you are, apparently as bored as can be posting in this thread.
slugoo said:
Yes, and I also have more confidence that my untrained and weak-wristed wife will have better odds with my revolver. Chances are about 50/50 that she will be the one who needs the gun. Autos take more training and strength. (for slide-racking and a locked wrist)
Willie Lowman said:
Except that it is an invalid analogy, Willie. Because with a handgun, I have something equally as effective that doesn't have these "ifs". With a truck or car, what do you have if you don't have gas or steering?
I guess my point was that revolvers are not as sensitive to ammo, technique, or spring issues. It seems to have been missed.
I surely didn't mean to imply that autos don't have their own strengths. Follow-up shots are quicker, and rapid firing tends to be more accurate. (assuming single action follow-up shots)
Mleake: Webleymkv did a good job of addressing the points. You made some good points of your own too.
Yep here I be.
Yet you have over 2500 posts and have been on this board since 2004, and have read and been a part of a number of discussions on just this topic. Just now though you realized that wheelguns are not dependent on magazines, not as sensitive to ammo, more resistant to poor technique, etc. Many of the things that keep the market for wheelguns alive.
The point was recognized and addressed by a number of folks including my bored self.
So you admit that if you knew you might engage more than one or more threats you would reach for the "iffy" semiautomatic firearm and trust your life to it. Meaning that some how, some way a semi can be reliable and un-iffy.
Which would be this post. You are well aware I did not make such a suggestion.
The discussion of which is more reliable a semi or a wheelgun is, when posed as either or and abstractly, is kinda boring and is pointless. The discussion of what criteria folks can have and for the selection of a gun and the role of one or the other can be interesting.
A fella can legitamately say that for their day to day purposes they feel a wheelgun suits them better than a semi and that they trust it more. When the same fella says that if they knew they were going into a gun fight they would take their Glock, an AR, ertc....well they are saying by action that they know these choices can be just as reliable when properly maintained as their wheelgun and that it's design and purpose is better suited for some things than the revolver.
tipoc
Yet you have over 2500 posts and have been on this board since 2004, and have read and been a part of a number of discussions on just this topic. Just now though you realized that wheelguns are not dependent on magazines, not as sensitive to ammo, more resistant to poor technique, etc. Many of the things that keep the market for wheelguns alive.
The point was recognized and addressed by a number of folks including my bored self.
So you admit that if you knew you might engage more than one or more threats you would reach for the "iffy" semiautomatic firearm and trust your life to it. Meaning that some how, some way a semi can be reliable and un-iffy.
Which would be this post. You are well aware I did not make such a suggestion.
The discussion of which is more reliable a semi or a wheelgun is, when posed as either or and abstractly, is kinda boring and is pointless. The discussion of what criteria folks can have and for the selection of a gun and the role of one or the other can be interesting.
A fella can legitamately say that for their day to day purposes they feel a wheelgun suits them better than a semi and that they trust it more. When the same fella says that if they knew they were going into a gun fight they would take their Glock, an AR, ertc....well they are saying by action that they know these choices can be just as reliable when properly maintained as their wheelgun and that it's design and purpose is better suited for some things than the revolver.
tipoc
Everybody is welcome to their opinion...
But lets get one thing straight, there are two different things that stop handguns from working, and I'm leaving out the covered in crud situation. Gun malfunctions and ammo malfunctions.
Squibs will tie up your gun, auto or revolver. No points there claiming one over the other, if you have a bad round, it's a bad round, and neither the auto nor the revolver is to blame. You are. For putting crap ammo in your gun.
We can, and usually do play the endless "what if" game, citing different situations where a revolver is put out of action, vs a semi, and vice versa. I don't care, myself. I own several of both, and don't abuse either. And even with decent care, the auto is more sensative, primarily because it is more complex (even if some are simpler to disassemble) with more working parts, and therefore a greater risk of malfunction.
Militaries use semis today, not because they are jam proof, but because they are reliable enough, with proper care and feeding. Remember that the militaries of the world do NOT consider a handgun a combat weapon, and really don't put much weight on the pistol's capability to defend the individual user!
I know all about people claiming how poorly the revolver fares in combat, how the mud of the trenches was responsible for everyone switching to auto pistols, but study real history a bit, and you see that is a gross over simplification. Everything JAMS! Get used to it. The British didn't adopt an auto as primary issue until AFTER WWII! We still issued revolvers to large numbers of personel even after decades of the 1911A1 being our primary handgun!
What we didn't do is issue revolvers to infantry. The 1911A1 GI auto has a great reputation for reliablity (with the ball ammo it was designed for), but it isn't perfect. It wasn't 100% reliable in combat. You can find lots of first hand accounts where the 1911's jammed in combat. Where the GI .45 got its great reputation was that it jammed LESS than the other guy's pistols!
Go ahead and argue all you want. I'm not a soldier anymore, nor a cop. My needs and wants are equally well served with either a revolver or an automatic. Both give me solid dependable service, when I feed them good ammo, and mantain them properly. Ask the impossible, and you will be disappointed.
But lets get one thing straight, there are two different things that stop handguns from working, and I'm leaving out the covered in crud situation. Gun malfunctions and ammo malfunctions.
Squibs will tie up your gun, auto or revolver. No points there claiming one over the other, if you have a bad round, it's a bad round, and neither the auto nor the revolver is to blame. You are. For putting crap ammo in your gun.
We can, and usually do play the endless "what if" game, citing different situations where a revolver is put out of action, vs a semi, and vice versa. I don't care, myself. I own several of both, and don't abuse either. And even with decent care, the auto is more sensative, primarily because it is more complex (even if some are simpler to disassemble) with more working parts, and therefore a greater risk of malfunction.
Militaries use semis today, not because they are jam proof, but because they are reliable enough, with proper care and feeding. Remember that the militaries of the world do NOT consider a handgun a combat weapon, and really don't put much weight on the pistol's capability to defend the individual user!
I know all about people claiming how poorly the revolver fares in combat, how the mud of the trenches was responsible for everyone switching to auto pistols, but study real history a bit, and you see that is a gross over simplification. Everything JAMS! Get used to it. The British didn't adopt an auto as primary issue until AFTER WWII! We still issued revolvers to large numbers of personel even after decades of the 1911A1 being our primary handgun!
What we didn't do is issue revolvers to infantry. The 1911A1 GI auto has a great reputation for reliablity (with the ball ammo it was designed for), but it isn't perfect. It wasn't 100% reliable in combat. You can find lots of first hand accounts where the 1911's jammed in combat. Where the GI .45 got its great reputation was that it jammed LESS than the other guy's pistols!
Go ahead and argue all you want. I'm not a soldier anymore, nor a cop. My needs and wants are equally well served with either a revolver or an automatic. Both give me solid dependable service, when I feed them good ammo, and mantain them properly. Ask the impossible, and you will be disappointed.
I used to believe that revolvers were the ultimate personal defense platform (due to reliability). However, after becoming very familiar with many auto-loaders, I feel extremely confident in their ability to function reliably. As mentioned over and over in this thread. If you do your part to keep a high quality auto maintained, and you feed it quality ammo, then it will do its part reliably. Considering the benefits you get from an auto pistol, I don't think regular maintenance and quality ammo are a lot to ask of the user.
The bottom line: If your carry gun is clean, broken in, and loaded with the good stuff. Then you can depend on it.
The bottom line: If your carry gun is clean, broken in, and loaded with the good stuff. Then you can depend on it.
1911's can be iffy.
I've never had a malfunction with sigs or glocks, after owning and shooting nearly a dozen of them. Sig 220, 226, 228, 225, 230, 229 Glocks 17, 19, 26, 22, 23,
Never had a malfunction with a P89 i owned either, nor 2 BHP's have ever given may any malfunctions, although the second one is new and only has a couple hundred rounds through it.
300 rounds through a SW M&P 9 and not a single malfunction through it either at this point...
No malfunctions with any of numerous Ruger revolvers either..
Only thing i've had iffy performance out of is a new 1911 and that was an issue that i was able to figure out with the brand new mags.. since then it's been trouble free on about 400 rounds..
I've never had a malfunction with sigs or glocks, after owning and shooting nearly a dozen of them. Sig 220, 226, 228, 225, 230, 229 Glocks 17, 19, 26, 22, 23,
Never had a malfunction with a P89 i owned either, nor 2 BHP's have ever given may any malfunctions, although the second one is new and only has a couple hundred rounds through it.
300 rounds through a SW M&P 9 and not a single malfunction through it either at this point...
No malfunctions with any of numerous Ruger revolvers either..
Only thing i've had iffy performance out of is a new 1911 and that was an issue that i was able to figure out with the brand new mags.. since then it's been trouble free on about 400 rounds..